Hi all. My mum visited last night and when she left she didnt latch the gate properly. She knows to do it and thought she had but didnt. Kirra got out and when she came home she had a few scrapes on her, very minor but leads me to my question. Her vulva is red and swollen. I know it wasnt like this previous to this as I have been very careful to keep checking her after the c-section to make sure there is no discharge due to infection. I am wondering if a male has got to her? I wouldnt think so normally, I would think that the bitch would have to be on heat. I am baffled. She is very sooky this morning and out of sorts, not sick but just funny, off you might say. What would be your thoughts on this?
thanks
Jodi

Jodi, How long was she out for.. ? I take it she was out the garden for a bit that you think a dog could have gotten to her and she has managed to pick up a few scrapes?  Did she not get out just a couple days ago also? Forgetting her bot for a moment and trying to be diplomatic  I would be more concerned about bringing something back into your puppies and killing them all.   If she is getting out whether under fence etc or out the gate I would not let her out my sight. 

I know you probably won't like this but being honest the trouble and journey these pups had coming into the world I  would be treating them like gold bars.

To answer your question I think  it is very unlikely she could have been mated I guess as her puppies are only 2 weeks which would mean she was in season about 12-13 weeks ago.

Blue is right anything could have happened to hear she might have been in a fight or had a near miss with a car, you should be ever so careful, especially with the pups health she could bring anything back with her.

Warm regards Susan

Like I mentioned my mother didnt latch the gate properly. I was making my children dinner and bathing them all and after I went down to feed kirra and check on the pups and she was out. She came home about an hour after that, I had been driving around looking for her, as had some of my friends. I do treat the pups like gold and I do take care of my dog, so yes I have taken offence to these comments. I have taken her to the vet and he said she has been mated, she would still have the smell of blood on her that would have attracted the male. I had fixed where she dug out last week, so this I dont see as me being negligent at all. It was a accident pure and simple. I spend a lot of time with kirra and the pups and am always checking them, it was probably about an hour while I was taking care of my children that I hadnt seen her. I do have other responsibilities and surely I cannot be expected to let my childrens welfare go to crap and sit with kirra 24/7. I take good care of my dog, I always have.

She wouldn't have been mated as she isn't in season whatever your vet says the red discharge bitches have when they are in season containss a male attractor pheromone & it is not the smell of blood that attract the males, bitches emit this attractor before they are in season to alert all the available males that she is going to be ready to breed(her womb will not have returned into breeding state yet so she will not be emitting the male sttractor) but I would give her a good wash down(you probably already have)including legs etc As she appears to be an escape artist(my first mate BC was one)she might just have taken the opportunity to go walkabout for reasons only known to her

You will obviously be keeping a close eye on the puppies anyway after their traumatic birth

You asked for peoples' thoughts and that's what you got Jodi!!  I think that other posters have been very polite to you.  To be honest, having given you time and help when Kirra had problems, my thoughts last night when I read your post were unprintable.:(
As has been said, anything could have happened to Kirra, but I doubt that mating would have been one of them. 
A dog breeder, as opposed to someone who produces puppies, gives their bitch and her puppies their undivided attention.  Of course you can't neglect your children but the situation that you describe, IMO, is far from an ideal environment for breeding a bitch.  Everything should be checked and double checked for the safely and welfare of the dam and the puppies and they should have 'somebody's' undivided attention.  There are no accidents - apart from natural disasters - only human error.

Oh come on, she obviously knows that this is a bad thing to have happened, she doesnt need a lecture as I'm sure she is feeling pretty cr*p about it already. I dont believe she has asked for you opinions on leaving the gate open but rather if the dog was mated!

Not a lecture Zoe - education.  By pointing out what is required when breeding, then hopefully a furthur 'accident' can be avoided.

Well I'm sorry but it looks like a lecture when stuff like 'you should be ever so careful' is said, this is clearly obvious and I too would be offended by this, she asked about the mating, not for education on being careful, it looks patronizing.

When my pups were 2 weeks old I could hardly drag mum out of her bed.....I could safely leave any door wide open and she wouldn't leave her babies.

I hope your girl is ok and not too traumatized by her little outing, I'm sure she'll be fine, accidents do happen only this week one of my other dogs escaped from the garden after the children left the gate open, it was a very frantic 1/2 hour but she came back on her own safe and sound.

I agree accidents do happen,i would be giving my mum a good talking to had she done something as careless as leave the gate open!! Thank goodness she wasnt hit by a car :(

The question that comes to my mind is WHY does your dog feel the need to escape,especially when she has her pups at home?? I've had 2 litters over the years and both times i had to half by drag mum away to have a toilet break,walk etc.

I always ask this question when i hear of escape artists,there has to be a reason??? Have you been walking her? Not full on runs to the hills,but even a few laps around the block would ease the boredom :)

Sorry i havnt seen your other threads,so i dont know the details the others are talking about. What breed is Kirra?

Hi Tippie completely off topic but I used to have a little cairn when I was a young girl called Tippee :-D never heard the name again.

Hi Zoe, :-)

Hopefully my post is not being classed as patronizing.:-)

This is the real world Joe and whether you think people should answer yes and no only is certainly your opinion BUT I don't think most will share it with your. :-)  I don't think anyone is being patronizing I think they are shocked, suprised and worried.  I certainly was.  

I think people are shocked that this bitch has gotten out 2 times in [bold]3 days[/bold]. Jodi said 3 days ago that the dog would not be out again unattended. It was. I take it you missed that post also. DO you think it is good that the bitch got out 2 times in 3 days?

Say the bitch  brought Parvo back with her and wiped the whole litter out and then the poster whether this one or another didn't know this could happened. Yes there are a lot of people out there that do not know these things and think it is OK for the bitches to get out.

People have followed Jodi's troubles over the last week supported and gave good sound advice. This is where she turned again when she had another question.  Forgetting this is a board if it was a freind of yours would you not tell how important it is for the bitch not to get out.. Well I hope you would.

I was very shocked when I saw her post last night.

Jodi,

Did you got to the vet as am emergency between 10 last night and 7 am this morning?

I would hope that all vets would know the smell of blood doesn't attract a dog.  I wouldn't be back to that vet for sure.

Although I don't like to offend and I  not going to apoligise :-) if you have taken offence I hope it works in a positive way and this bitch doesn't get out again. I really honestly and genuinely do for the pups sake.

Jodi is in Australia Blue

To be absolutely fair, there ARE male dogs that confuse the smell of blood with bitches being in season. I have one like that myself. He was going NUTS when one of my bitches (spayed) had a tumour on her eyelid that was bleeding, he was forever trying to mount her, whining, acting just like she was in season. Once the tumour was removed and she had healed up he was  fine. Now I have a cat who has injured herself slightly, and he thinks SHE is a bitch in season. Honestly, he's nuts about the cat and again acts just like she was a bitch in season. So I think there are the odd thick male out there. :)

Marianne

It is usually the smell of puss that attracts them most, or any infected wound.  I would be worried that Kirra may ahvew a slight infection and that may ahve attrated a male, though I woudl be surprised at her allowing him to mate her, but amybe he was bigger than her (accounting for the scrapes).

Siberian Huskies are renowned escape artists and most sibe owners I know will have wire sunk into the ground and also the fence will have an overhang to stop them climping or jumping out. 

Gates would certainly be licked and there really ought to be at least an area that is secure away from the property entrance so that someone leaving the property cannot let the dogs out.  The area where the dog has access should be padlocked as visitors delivery people and utility service people will often leave gates open.

At two weeks I would only be allowing Mum to leave pups for supervised toilet breaks and expect h3er to atay with pups at all other times.  Rearing a litter takes a lot out of a bitch and she needs not be distracted from this task.

It might appear like Jodi is getting ganged up on but that isn't my intentions i do agree with all of Blues posts and Vals, they're just trying to worn you of the risks Jodi and really it is only positive critisim, and it is hard to say this has happened or that as happened only the dog knows what has happened.  Dogs are renound for smelling  infections thats why the government and other orginisations are considering using them in practices because they pick up on human cancers aswell.

Warm regards Susan

Are you suggesting Val that havng children I should not be allowed to breed my dog? Usually there is someone with her most of the time. When I said I was bathing the kids the only reason my partner wasnt with her was he was at the hospital with his father who had suffered a stroke that day. Yes I do have wire under the fence, but where she got out there was a small gap that I was unaware of. That was recitified. I have a chain around my gate and my mother just pushed the gate closed without latching anything. Is this my fault? My mother who by her own admission knows better than that and is mortified that she didnt? Is that my fault? If you had taken any notice of ay of my posts I would think that you would realise how much care and worry I have been through with Kirra. My partner has to drag me away for sleep as I am pregnant myself. There are most certainly accidents all the time in everyday life, yes you can reduce the risks, but they happen. You are making out I am irresponsible, yet I havent been shopping or left the house except to take Kirra to the vet since 10 days before the pups were born.I realise what could have happened, and yes I have had Kirra seen to by a vet, I am not some idiot that needs lecturing by a person who isnt here to see the whole picture, but feels they can sit as judge and jury from the other side of the world. Yes I asked for your opinions, but I asked for your opinions on wether the dog was mated. If you continue the attitude that I have seen so far, you will scare away people who are here for help, you can get your point accross without being rude and making people feel like they are stupid and incompetent. 

Here Here i totally agree with you Jodi, i also have had the sharp end of Vals tongue she seems very knowledgable but should learn to be a bit more diplomatic, She and a few others certainly put me off asking for any more advice.

You seem a very caring and responsible owner trying to juggle this with family life isnt easy.

Good Luck in the future.

Clair

I know Claire but at the end of the day people are just warning her of the accidents which can happen from accidents, it is hard trying to write what you mean on a computor, no-ones trying to make you feel like that Jodie, and at the end of the day no-one can make you feel like that unless you let them, i hope i haven't made you feel like that because thats the last thing i would wont i myself have been on the receiving end of someones tongue and it's not nice, as you said Jodie you are aware of all the facts so dont take offence, try to take things with a pinch of salt.  If anything happened to your dog i'm sure you would never forgive yourself, i myself dont know your past posts people on here love there dogs so they're just showing concern and i know you to love your dog or you wouldn't be posting on here for advice.  In saying that though i can see someone taking advantage of your post and opening a big can of worms and turning this into a nasty debate about your circumstances, you've definitely left yourself open to attack.

Warm regards Susan

I agree that Val seems very knowlegable, I certainly appreciate the time and support given by the members of this board. I am aware of the risks to both Kirra and her pups. It isnt as if I am leaving the gates open and saying go for it Kirra, come home when you are ready. I do my best to care for kirra and her pups. And yes I feel like I am being made an example of. No susan you havent made me feel like I described. Like I said though, people can get their point accross without appearing rude. It will also make them come back and listen more if they feel that the person is giving constructive critisim rather than attacking them. There are a lot of people on this board who have been supportive and have a wealth of information to pass on, however it will never be let to light if they dont learn some communication skills and understanding for others. Val, I am not saying you dont know what you are talking about, just that you need to learn how to express yourself a little better and pass on what you know without coming off like you have a vendetta and personally attacking people. People will not listen to that, they will however respond to respect and kindness, get your point accross with some compassion and decent common courtesy and you will have spoke volumes.

Just because you don't like what is posted in straight forward language doesn't make it rude.  I shall waste no more of my time!

She and a few others certainly put me off asking for any more advice.
clair, if you are going to be put off by being told that reading one book is not sufficient knowledge to mate a bitch, then you'll be the poorer! :( I, and many others, spent much time explaining to you what is involved when breeding a litter, and encouraging you to have an experienced breeder with you for the whelping.
What makes this board different from others is that there are many experienced people here who are happy to give freely of their time and to share their knowledge with people who are interested in learning how to breed happy, healthy quality puppies, not just produce inferior puppies the pet market.
But if this is your attitude, then I'll waste no more time on you either.

There is a huge difference between being rude and straight forward language. The way you have just reacted has just proved my point. You are implying that I am unable to learn and take note of what people say, yet when I counter this attack on me, you get disgruntled. Your manner suggests rudeness. You are a very knowledgable woman, of this there is no doubt in my mind, I just wish you could add a little common courtesy to this and it would be win win for everyone. Like I said before I truely appreciate the time and effort the members of this board have given, but as soon as something happens that upsets you, you get all upset and throwing insults. But yet I am attacked for defending myself and trying to explain the situation better so maybe you can understand how this happened??? I am very confused?? Who is who and what is what? seems like a lot of double standards here to me.

This probably has nothing to do with this post, but i too posted a reply to a topic the other day about someone who had a cross pitbull or thought she had, i didnt say anything offensive at all and was more asking a question than i was commenting and i got hit with a load of abuse by a certain individual, who didnt even read my post properly and was going on about something that i never even mentioned!! I was very shocked and quite upset actually as ive had nothing but nice replys from everyone else from that ive previously posted topics about and was offended by this person who was totally rude and out of order, there are some really nice people on here, and some who obviously are not and need to have a bit of respect! :(

Jodi,

I was going to suggest that you put it to bed but I am sorry I totally think your reply to Val is not neccessary. It really isn't :-(

Every reply to your post and earlier posts are out of concern for your bitch.  You didn't mind the advice with the earlier posts so now the advice or comments is not what you want to hear you are turning it around and saying they are rude. THey are not they are honest.  My reply to you was not rude at all.  Honestly.

Bare in mind folks we are talking about living breathing creatures here.

Tell me how are we are supposed to know that you do not know that this is wrong?  We have to reply based on the info and experience your post suggests you have. You posts sound like you are very inexperienced. People have replied and very much supported you based on this.   It is not unheard of for people to think it is OK for bitches to be out so soon after puppies.  

Lets be honest here, I ask you to go back and read your first post yourself, try to think of it as another poster and see how it reads.

It certainly comes across very worrying whether you want to admit it or not. A  bitch getting out once with young puppies is a mistake and yes it does and can easily happen. You said she wouldn't be out again unattended. 3 days later she is out again and then was mated.  What do you want people to say or think " oh dear" come on.

You bitch was out 2 times in 3 days for lengthly periods regerdless if someone was looking for her or not.  We were all very concerned about this.

I would loved to see your reply if someone posted the same post then came back a few days later to say the whole litter died of Parvo.. it does happen.

I will stay out of this one now and hope your puppies do well.