What are the main differences between the two, at some point when the time is right i would like either a red merle collie or a aussie. Are aussies good at agility/obedience etc. Are aussies as highly strung as borders. I do really like the look of the heavier built aussie and they look more smoother shaped. But i also like the happy willing to please attitude of the collie. Has anyone had experience with both these breed?

From my recollection of border collies, when my grandparents had them, and from my brother's border collie now, I would say that the Aussie isn't quite as "off the wall" as they were/is!

Our aussies are soo eager to please - I've seen them called the "velcro" dogs on US websites - and oh boy, they certainly can move fast - well, all apart from Thor who is a real couch potato!

I don't think they are as highly strung either - our girls can be "hyper" when they know they are going out, etc, but there again, so can our labs!

Margot

Having a BC myself it depends a great deal on it's pedigree and where you get it from as to how 'hyper' they are.  The show bred ones are definately more laid back to those bred to work sheep or from strong agility or obedience lines.

Strangely enough, I asked the same question to some friends of mine that own and show both BC's and Aussies.  They said the Aussies were on the whole more headstrong and needed firmer handling, especially during those teenage months. They liked both, but they were entirely different from each other despite their looks.

Sandra

Owning border collies and being involved with my sister-in-laws Aussies I would say that they are both breeds that need occupying, neither makes a good couch potato.The border can be more reactive in someways but the Aussie can be just as full on (difficult to explain exactly what I mean if you haven't lived with both)Both should be outgoing and friendly and both are agile, intelligent and trainable. I wouldn't like to live with a bored one of either breed ;)

Most people who own Aussies will tell you their looks are deceptive. They may look similar to a bc but their personalities are totally different. In fact one owner/breeder I know compares them more to a Rottie than a bc! They both have their good points but personally unless you were planning on working it in some way, I wouldn't have a bc. Aussies do need entertaining but are less highly strung. They are stunning dogs but I can't get over the missing tail, it gives me the creeps!

I already have borders, i love the breed but theres a part of me that wants something a little different that works a little different but i love the look and the working ability. Im not keen on the other types of collie they just arnt for me.

Aussies have a bit more brain than a Rottie :D Mine has a very quirky personality :D She can be very laid back, but also hyper depending on what is going on :)

Daisy

As has been said.  Aussies are not so highly strung and are alot more work.  Just because looks are similar to the untrained eye they are totally different in attitudes and going right down to the style they work in (hearding)

Aussies are also stronger, once person here said a breeder compared them to rotties, my grandad fell in love with the breed because they had the attitude of a boxer (his first breed) and come to think of it afew aussie owners are ex boxer people or have come from boxer families!!!!

However the possibility to train them is there but don't go thinking they are just a heaveir built docked border collie!!!

The aussie may be willing to please some of the time, but they love to entertain themselves (and others) at owners expense, and I have heard some embaressing stories!!!!! :D

Ooh - do tell :D Mine is a perfectly behaved young lady around the house :D

Daisy

Thats true Rox, Arwen can be a complete and utter clown at times even though shes trained up to Gold KCGC, She once watched a gate being made higher supposedly to contain her the person who was doing it finished the job closed it and turned to her saying there now and she promptly leap over it with a grin on her face :D

There is an ASD Ob Ch, but several more BC/WSD Ob Ch.  Not been an ASD WT Ch yet, but they do well in Working Trials and there have been several in ticket.

Lots of ASD do agility too.

:d They sound a lot like the Spanish.  THough there again I suppose that they have both been used for the same jobs so it's not surprising.

The thing is tohme it's just the one (at the moment) ob ch.  I own half sisters to the ob ch and they are deff not obedient although done training.  There was ALOT of hard work and dedication put into Dee Dee and the outcome has been shown in her title!

Generally speaking, Aussie's are quite a bit slower than bcs when it comes to agility. I haven't seen that many around the shows either, although that could just be an area thing.

There is always a lot of hard work put into ANY breed of dog, none pop out of the womb ready trained.

The reason that there is only one does not necessarily reflect the ability or responsiveness of the breed but how many people work BC/WSD.

The same can be said for lots of other (minority) breeds that people do very well with; dogs of any breed are as obedient as you want them to be............ IME

I would have thought the reason why there are not so many Aussies getting all these fancy titles (I don't understand them and I am not going to pretending I do :) ) is because although there are more Aussies around now, I should think the numbers are still very low compared to BC's - just a guess, but from what I have read, in America where there are loads of Aussies, they are coming very close to being 'top dog' for the people that do work them.

What do they work them in Nat? Are we talking herding, obedience, agility, working trials?

Well most live on ranches and farms, so I would guess herding and the like. They don't seem to have the two strains over there - or I have certainly not found as many show/pet Aussies as working dogs.

I think im going to stick with me borders, at least i know roughtly what im getting with a border.

I don't think you can really compare Aussie's herding ability with that of a bc; they are so totally different in their style.

There are still quite a few Aussies in this country, I think TBH you will find the reason not a lot of them do agility is the speed thing. Although they are still a fast dog I have yet to see one move anywhere near the speed of a bc around an agility course. But they were not designed for it were they? If you watch them herding they do not rely on their speed as much as a collie does. In fact the last time I saw an Aussie compete in agility he was beaten by a Beardie, a Shepherd and a Retriever!

But then I don't think the op was necessarily looking for an agility dog so it is irrelevant anyway! ;-) They are lovely natured dogs, in general terms they would beat a bc temperament wise hands down. It's just the tail. Or lack of... :-(

I actually love my girl NOT having a tail :D My older rescue mongrel has a gorgeous tail - it's feathered (?) and he holds it high and it curls loosely over his back (where he gets it from I don't know :D ). Aussie wiggle-bums are gorgeous  and far more interesting than a collie's tail (Duck :D )

Daisy

I don't know about the differences of how the two work - I have never seen either of them doing any work so I can't comment, I have read that Aussies use their eyes more than BC's but reading about these sorts of things doesn't mean anything really! I think the reason why Aussies are popular in the states is because (again from what I have read) they are more family orientated than BC's, and have more of a guarding instict.

As for the tail, I think the lack of the tail is what makes an Aussie an Aussie! I have seen Aussies with their tail on (and it maybe because I am used to seeing them with out but...) I think personally that they look funny! The tail changes the whole being of an Aussie - in my eyes anyway. I think as long as they have been docked humanly, or of course are a NBT anyway it betters the look of the breed. I cant explain why, it just seems right for them to be tail-less!

Just to add quickly, from what I have read (I can't wait till I can say 'from what I have seen'!) the Aussie is more versatile in what he can herd, whereas with a BC, I think because of their bite and overall working mannor, they are more suited to sheep alone. I don't know how much truth is in it, but that is what I have gathered so far....! :)

My collies are very sharp eyed, 2 of them there temprements great with people but they will stare other dogs out until they start on them. Now my other collie is really layed back great with kids people other dogs small animals. I trust her 100% in most situations. Cas n Haze are very loving dogs but Moss is a bit more independant he wont come and sit on my knee like a big lap dog. He's happy running laps up and down the garden or chewing on a bone.

I think it is like I said, you can read and read and read, but until you actually own a dog, you will never know its traits. The thing is even books specific to the breed can only say about the majority, we all know that Aussies have endless amounts of energy, but I am sure somewhere there will be an Aussie that never wants to go out, or play ball, or anything except sitting on the couch probably watching telly :D I think with any breed, you can be told what the main traits are of the breed, but dog's are like people, everyone is different, and you are never going to get a breed where everything is exactly the same. JMO :D

Natalie, the aussie has been used to work nearly anything.  I have heard they have been used to heard elephants!!!!!  They often heard cattle, bulls and many more.

Re to speed of aussie compared to a BC; The fast agility BC, mostly have been bred for agility and speed (am I right?) while aussies are still a newer, less common breed it has only just started that agility is being bred for agility, obedience for obdience, conformation for conformation Up to now we ahve been traying for "do it all" aussies which are successful at everything but are not going to be champions in everything with teh exception of a few.  5-10 generations of aussies down the line, when we have a wider gene pool I think you will find aussies competing very highly against the BC's in the sports.  This is just MO.  I would like to see every aussie with the possibility of doing everything in their life.  However for those who want winners you can't always do that! :(

Thats what I thought Rox, and this is probably why they are so popular in America for working dog's. I never heard of the elephants though :D

Say I only heard about it from my grandad who does read alot, however if you ever are unfortant enough to meat him he does like to exagerate about everything!!!!!! LOL  BUt it might have been in one fo the many books he has and has read.  Like you he fell in love with the breed and read lots about them. 

Well I might catch up to your Grandad one day :)

SHame the NASA roundup was too far for you.  You could have had the pleasure of meating him then!!!!  His likly to be in a amoaning mood though today because I was only told last week and I had to go to work and my brother is on a archary course so neither of us could go. 

Reading what you are saying the Spanish and the Australian's are used in really the same way.  SWD's also herd cattle etc. as they nip at the cattle's heels etc.  Of course the SWD is also used as a hunting dog and to retrieve any fish that have come out of the nets etc. and to guard.  But it really is interesting to see that they've both been used for similar jobs.

Wonder if the bobtails have anything to do with their job too with them both being born naturally short tailed?

I'm not sure if aussies do nip feet.  I must admit I am not sure on that one!  Maybe it's the idea of bobtails in heavy duty work with large animals where a tail is likly to be damabed by the feet of the cattle!

Just out of intrest whats the stroy behind the SWD and being a swimmer but not having a tail?  I was always led to believe "water dogs" had tails to help them swim.  SO why use a tailless dog?  I'm intregued now.  I ahev admired the SWD from the ringside but never really researched them as I don't want to get involved with another breed, especially another new breed!!!!  At current I have one rare breed, one endangerd breed and the next breed on my list is a rare breed (Toller) so I guess I won't be seriously thinking about a SWD for a VERY long time!!!!! :D

I look forward to the day when Aussies can keep up with the collies, by then I may have got over the absent tail or may even find one with a tail! They are beautiful dogs and when I have room for the Sibe, Malamute, Beardie, GSD plus all the others I want, I will definitely have one. :-)

There are breeders who don't dock now, infact a breedeer has left two in her litter undocked and they will be seen in agilty rings. (she kept the undocked ones)  Some have been showen at crufts with tails who have come from overseas.

One lady in the breed only has ones with tails, if it's been docked she doesn't want it.

I personally love the absent tail.  Their rear end looks sooooo cute from behind, especially once it has been trimmed and is neat and tidy!

I don't really want one with a tail, I have afriend witha BC cross and it's tail is one of a BC and I once spent a good 20 mins brushing out all the dead hair and knots (ok maybe he had been left tooo long!!!!) BUt I much prefere straight scissors straight across ina  line...there, done finished!!! :D

However if you went and asked any breeder for the tail left on I'm sure they will leave it on for you.  A breeder would prefere to leave the tail on and give it to a lovely home rather then take it off and not have it going to the perfect home ;)

:-( I was told they were naturally bobbed. Maybe they were trying to deflect me from a rant! ;-)

Only a very small percentage are natural bob!!!!  The rest are varient from a full tail to a little stump, and worse of all defromed tails :(

Same goes for SWD's a believe?

They can be naturally bobbed but can also have different lengths of tail. They are often docked if it is more than 4 inches.

I like the neat behinds on the Elkhounds, but no scissors (though they do in USA and it is horrible).  Theya re a natural working dog, can't see why anyone would wnat to trim them up.

I don't trim Tara at all, apart from her feet :) Looks fine as she is :D

Daisy

I am sure your Grandad wouldn't have been moaning at a fellow Aussie lover!!! ;)

Never seen deformed tails in Spanish but they do also have the different lengths.  Must admit I don't like the tail on a Spanish either, the variants in style are just too extreme, they are neither one thing or the other, from corkscrewed tails, to tails over their back, highly carried tails, pointer tails, the list goes on!  Luckily the two that are shown in this country with tails have the type that we would like.  This is why I've kept two natural bobtails because I want this to continue when docking finishes.

So are Aussie's different to Spanish then re. tail?  I know that if I put a bobtail to a tailed that more than likely half of the litter will be bobtailed.

Re: tails and them being water dogs.  I do wonder whether tails in other breeds are so that they can be seen rather than for the use of a tail in water.  The Poodle had the Pom Pom left on so that could be seen and other breeds have the white tips at the end of their tails again I presume so that they can be seen.  As the Spanish are used to dive and go under the water maybe that's why they don't need a tail???  Interesting really because I don't have a clue as to the reason why :d  The SWD does seem to have a different swimming technique though to most dogs I wouldn't say that they doggy paddle and boy do they use their back legs.

collies will heard ANYTHING!!!! my tara herds spiders!!!!!!

Oh God, if our Aussie starts herding spiders I will have to train him to only do it when OH is home! I can't stand spiders!!! ;)

We had an Australian shepher cross,we brought him privately and met his mum who was also an aussie cross although owner didnt know what with,he was supposed to be crossed with old english sheepdog and i cannot remember the other breed but to look at him you would of said he was crossed with rottweiler possibly doberman or a bit of each,he was quite a hyperactive puppy and very headstrong also had a strong guarding instinct and did as we were informed by the vet have a great amount of stamina and could keep going all day.He was not good on the lead and would bark at other dogs quite aggresively but we cured that with a halti,when off the lead he was ok but would cirlce us to make sure no other dogs came to close,once he got his nose to the ground or spotted something he was gone,but never runaway,he calmed down when neutered and from about 18 months onwards was a lovely dog to own,he had to be put to sleep ar 4 due to cancer and we missed him terribly and it took us three years to get another dog,newfie,cross berner she is great only 14 wks old.If you have the  timeand patience I would say they are a good breed a neighbour had a pedigree and once trained made an excellent dog .I would say they are not as hyper as a border collie.Good luck with your choice i am, sure it will all go well whichever you choose

aussie seem more "thinkers" & need a reason to do stuff, whereas collies just do it regardless.
also i think some aussies can be very stubborn & very humourish,whereas collies are more scatty.

the build & construction is very different also.
both are lovely,depends what you like

BorderCollieLvr,

If you really want to learn more about Aussies, try this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/087605503X/qid=1119260886/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_8_3/026-0673979-3020429

Sorry can't do links :( It's just a few pounds, I have a copy, and while there is a lot more you can learn about Aussies, this is a really good start to make, it goes over a few basic points and a few more in depth points. It tells you the bad points as well as the good, so you can have a better idea - if there are many bad points that you just couldn't handle then you know the Aussie isn't a breed for you.

You will make the right choice for you :D