Hi guys, I would really like you to comment on this probably for support or comments so that a member ( lurker ;-) )   to the board can read your comments. Also as a warning to those who go into exporting without thinking it through or think it is hastle free :-)

I am confident in the advice I have given her but would like to see what you think and how you would deal with it if it were you in her situation or maybe you have had similar pressures from a buyer.

A freind of mine called me today in a bit of a dizzy... here is her story.

She has been showing her breed quite successfully for 25 years. Breeds the odd litter etc.

She sold 2 puppies abroad 5 months ago, a bitch puppy to a freind of hers and a dog puppy to a freind of the freind :-) 

The were sold at 11-12 weeks because they had to be a bit older as you know for the vaccines etc.

The bitch was sold at £350+£150= £500 to cover the vaccines and microchipping and extra expenses (she sold the bitch cheaper than the pet price as it was a freind)

She sold the dog for £550+£150 to cover the vaccines , chipping etc 

The person who bought the dog for some reason decided the dog puppy that she had bought was not quite what she was looking for and had a bit of a moan to the freind who had bought the bitch. I am a bit confused at this bit as the freind decided to sell the bitch to her freind. ARE we keeping up here.:-)

SO the freind of the freind now has the 2 puppies.

This person then wrote/emailed my freind saying that the bitch's bite is not right and the dog has turned out feet. NOW we all know that yes this isn't ideal for showing but they are 100% sound in health from tested parents and tested lines and looked promising pups at 10 weeks.. there was only 4 in the litter.

We all know that if you want to save money you buy puppies at pet prices at 8-12 weeks and take the gamble if it turns out it is a bonus. If you don't and want a show dog you wait till they are 6 months old, pay a decent price and get a better guarantee.

   They were not sold as show dogs but as promising 10 week old  off spring off show dogs with no guarantee at a very cheap pet price, nobody could a guarantee at this age.. ( if only we could)  The letter then goes onto say as they are unhappy with their purchases they want FREE OF CHARGE 2 PUPPIES at the earliest convenience and when will they be ready... :-D :-D

I was speechless ( I know very difficult at times :-D :-D)

Firstly the bitch puppy was not sold to them by the breeder but buy the original buyer so it isn't anything to do with the breeder now. Secondly the dog puppy was sold and a pet price with no guarantee whatsoever ..  They want 2 puppies at her expense for free.. talking about demanding customer service ;-)

Now Apart from telling my freind to tell them to get lost, very politely :-D :-D  I then had a think about it and  also said to be honest if it was me to show them I stand behind my reputation, I would offer them the option of  sending the puppies back ( who are now8 months old), I would give them full refund of the puppy price only and then have no more to do with them. 

I suspect they may not take up that offer. I think they are at it.

Well any thoughts..:-)

  

What a nightmare! :(

Without knowing how the pups were described on the contract I would say that the buyers have got what they paid for - pedigree pups of a particular bloodline. In the absence of obvious faults, their development is down to the upbringing and fate.

If they're not happy with the pups, they should return them - even the one that's now in different ownership. Whether or not they're entitled to any refund is debatable, but I would consider it as a goodwill gesture and to close the contact. No way would I allow them to have any more pups.

Nightmare indeed. Very sad as the breeder is a very nice person indeed and genuine in her efforts. Too soft I think.
No contract was done at all.   I gave her a telling off ;-)   The fact she didn't give a contract doesn't really harm her because of the small pet price she sold them at. If she had sold them at £1500 each this in itself would imply a show quality puppy.  They would have more chance of compensation.. Not at a pet price.

I have bought a few puppies in , one or two2 turned out , one or two didn't that is the gamble to take when you pay pennies for pups.

Imagine buying a pup from a 3rd party then thinking you could demand another puppy from the breeder who never even sold you the pup because you are not happy with the bite.

I think it would be best to get them back also. 

I tell you I have heard a good 4 or 5 export disasters in the last month alone.

Hi Blue, how very, very sad for the breeder :(  I've tried to think of an alternative but my gut reaction and having given it some thought is to agree that were it me, I would want the pups back and sooner refund the price to simply cut all ties with the people they were exported to.  Having said that, it depends where they went - if it's Europe, it needn't be too expensive to have them returned, however if it's the US, Australia or somewhere equally far then the cost of return flights I should imagine would be exorbitant in which case what chance of having them returned Your friend could hardly trust forwarding on monies to these people after this behaviour.

Certainly I would not consider replacing the puppies on the basis of what you have described has transpired so far.  They were sent and presumably received in good faith and as has already been pointed out, the owners have benefitted from - in the case of the dog anyway - a new blood line from which they could presumably still breed on from.  As for the bitch, no-one can realistically guarantee a mouth fault won't develop.

I hope your friend can resolve things so that she knows that her puppies, whatever the outcome, end up in good hands.  Regards, Teri  

Thanks everyone. :-)

Very sad indeed. 

It is very hard to get decent breed puppies for that kind of money in the UK.  I know of people who have paid 3-4 times this abroad and they have still turned out pet quality.

What I find incredible is the cocky confidence of someone to be so pushy and think it is OK.  :-( 

There is alot to be said these days for nice quality pet homes where they are loved regardless.

She is such a worrier :-(

I sometimes wonder if people see a kind a decent person and think "Hey lets take her for a ride".

I have bought in and put through quarantine a pup with freinds,a dn so ahve others over the years.  some of them turn into show dogs some not.  All have made a useful imput into the brteed as primarily they were bought for their bloodlines, anything else is a bonus.

The chance of getting a show dog at any price is unlikley, after all most of the owners would be keeping them for themsleves, so all yu can do is hope that the offspring of the dogs you admire turn out OK or breed on.

Yes me too, I'm with JG on this. Offer to have the puppies back, refund if there's no other way to get them back, and no to replacement puppies.

Dawn R.

To be honest i'd have to agree with yourself & Blue on this one, yes i'd give them a refund but i'd be asking them to pay the cost to send BOTH dogs back too.
I'd be devastated, not only are the poor pups being passed about & the stress of travel & settling into another home, ect, ect.
But for a friend to rehome a pup that you'd entrusted in their care ...... :(

It just goes to remind us all, keep 'business' and friendship separate if you don't want any complications ;)

I agree with the rest, get pups back, at owners expense, refund if any left from rehoming.  No further pups to these %&*%"!!  people who seem to think that a pup is a commodity.

Totally agree Dill Get these pups back and then your poor friend can sort out rehoming them. What a sad and very stressful situation your dear friend is going through love Sonja

hi all i can say ( im not a breeder ) is i really hope the pups are being looked after and i agree will what everyone else has said good luck ill keep everything crossed

I really feel for the breeder.  I have had a couple of dogs to show at companion shows and then decided that I wanted to show more seriously.  One breeder (who shows very seriously) wanted to keep 2nd pick of the boys for me and 'prove it' before selling to me (and wanted to retain stud rights which was why we didn't consider this puppy more) and the other breeder had 2 pups with potential.  We had 2nd pick of her litter but were fully aware we were buying the perceived potential.  She also kept back a 3rd who had been very poorly.  My boy is OK as we expected but the breeder finally kept the one that had been poorly as he finally turned out best and is doing really well - you never really know do you.  I am assuming that the owner wants to show but from your post it sounds like the breeder never knew this - if not then why on earth would she have even thought about pointing out that she couldn't give any guarantees on them.  I feel really sorry for your friend and agree that I would want the puppies back - no life for them if they are not really wanted.

Hi There

When I bought my dog last year with the intent of showing, I purchased him at 12wks. The breeders opinion was that he was the best in this litter. She also told me that there are never any guarantees. Its a gamble, and anyone will tell you that!. With young puppies you just have to wait and see how they will turn out. I suppose if you buy an older pup then you have a better idea. Its such a shame that the breeder has found herself in this situation, I feel sorry for her. I dont know what I would do (never been there) but I have to say though, that these are puppies,not a pair of shoes that you dont like anymore :(
I suppose if I were the breeder I would take the pups back if I could.

kat

Hi everyone, I am the Breeder of the puppies, and wish to thank everyone for their help and advice.  Will let you know of the outcome of this situation.  Have asked for the return of pups, but do not think he will oblige.  Pick me off the floor if he does.  Cannot contact the Breed Club as the person in question is the President.

I do hope you get everything sorted out and the puppies come back to you safe and well, this is one of the main reasons that I have never exported, mind you I was tempted a few weeks ago someone wanted a dog puppy to go to Canada, but after a lot of thought I said no. I like to know that the pups are here in the U.K. Will keep fingers and toes crossed for you. Good Luck

hi patricia5,ide sujest they return the pups to you.but if they dont i would tell them were to go on the free pups front.there obviosly only trying there luck if the new 0wner is president of the breed club then theyle know they aint got a leg to stand on.its not asif they were sold a definate show pups at a show pup price!

OMg, I really can't believe this.

First, how long have they been abroad for?  Because, if they are returned to the UK, they will need to be microchipped, have a rabies shot and then wait 6 months to enter under the Pet Passport scheme :(  That or go into quarantine, which isn't a good idea in terms of socialisation for a young pup.

In this situation, I think it's best to try to rehome the pups in the country they now are in.  I would take the money back, find a new home for them, and then have the new owners go and pick them up.  I'd contact the breed club in that country for help, if necessary.

If that doesn't work out, I'd take them back and give a refund, but only if they could come back under the Pet Passport scheme immediately.

What a mess :(

not to be rude but don't puppies still have a way to go at that age so what maybe a fault now won't be as an adult?

If they are so unhappy about the dogs that they now have why are they asking for another two from the same source???  Surely the problems these two have will be possible in another two? I would not give a refund if the dogs are healthy no one can guarantee a show dog at the end of the day both the dog and handler can help a dog fail and one judges perfect is anothers imperfection.

I think it a little sad that peoples expectations of their dogs is based on appearence first and foremost it should be based on the life you can give it not on the trophies you might be able to win, if thats your only interest take up something that doesn't involve a living creature.