a pup that isn't KC Reg?

A pedigree one? No.

Nope :D

No.

It depends really if the pup is healthy and the sire and dam from which it came are, and you only want a house pet, you are not going to breed or show then i cant see why not, when i was a child we had 2 mongrels mixes which where wonderful companions and who we loved dearly.

If it's about half the price or less than a KC registered one then yes.  If you are paying KC registered prices then definitely NOT!

Don't go for the rubbish that some breeders say about DLRC registration as this isn't worth the paper that it is written on.  More suitable for cutting up into little squares if you run out of toilet roll :d

If the both parents have been fully health tested and clear and you know the full history, then Yes. If not, then no, Pedigree or not.

Would you not wonder why health tested parents with a full history would not have registered pups?

Is the pup pedigree or mixed breeds?

I deliberated excluded mongrels from my reply as they are a different matter and people will buy and love them for other reasons.  But if we are talking about pedigrees even "pets" will want to be healthy specimens from health tested parents and as I asked in my other posts you have to ask why the puppies of such parents are not being registered and the answer is usually something dodgey.

No definately not - the only exception would be if it was a breed of dog that was not recognised by the KC or a cross breed.  I would not buy from someone who was happy to breed from unregistered dogs (even if they were health tested), or outside the restrictions placed by the KC (age of dam, no of litters etc), nor would I wish to encourage that sort of breeding.

If both of the parents are KC registered why would anyone want to sell them unregistered for presumably less money unless they were up to something dodgy? 

If you are of course talking about a mongrel then I would like to see both parents to see what they actually are.

No

Stacey x

Personally I agree that any reputable breeder should sell all their pups registered -but endorsed. However I have recently found out that in some breeds (or at least one!) it is the norm for puppeis going to PET homes to be sold unregistered, so it does happen. It is in fact mentioned in a breed book by a top breeder and I questioned another wellknown successful person in the breed in question who confirmed she too would sell unregistered pups when they go to pet homes. I think it's odd (things would be so much easier if you could know that unregistered=not repsonsible breeder or something dodgy!), but it does mean at times it can be possible for an unreg pup to still have come from a responsible breeder.

Marianne

These would be registered pups though, but the breeder RETAINS the registration documents, so all health status etc can be checked.

Eh, no. They WOULD be NOT registered at all. :)

In our breed we rely on the statistics provided by the registration data, if pups are bred and not regitered thenyou don't know who is siring what and how many litters or pups a bitch or dog has produced, all aspects of interest to other breeders and for breed history.

Oh I agree and I think ALL pups should be registered. But for some reason in at least this one breed it is common for breeders not to register pups going as pets.

Makes me wonder if they are breeding more than the desired number for the KC code of ethics and this is their way around it, for example: breeding from bitches too young or over 8 years or having two litters in a year, rather than the KC's preferred one litter per year or less. In which case why are they doing it? The litter can have no value to them as none of the pups are registered so they must be producing pups for a pet market, to get money to maintain the other dogs. If thats the case then why not have less dogs in the first place, have a number they can afford to keep?
I would not reccomend buying from a litter of unregistered pedigree pups. As has been said the DLR is not worth the paper it is written on, unless you are short of toilet paper. I would want a copy of the health certificates of any pups and their parents have, and depending on the breed in question and I would want to know exactly why the pup is not registered. Every time an unregistered puppy is sold, it encourages the breeders to repeat the process. These are the puppies the "breeder" is less likely to take back as you have no proof they are from their breeding line, should you find yourself in circumstances where you have to rehome the puppy. Therefore these puppies are more likely to end up in rescue at best, put to sleep or end up in a puppy farm at worst.

Thinking about this thread while at work today, I remembered something I was told only recently. That is that some dog thieves are now becoming very organised, and while the guest would not buy an unregistered but pure bred dog from a van on a market, (and yes it does happen I have two separate reports), some of the thieves have been selling pure bred pups from their friends homes. In one case I know of the thieves were in league with a local dog warden!
So the unregistered pure bred you are buying might just be a stolen dog, there have over the last few years been numerous litters and in some cases, the bitch as well, being stolen and sold on.
Would you want to encourage a dog thief? I know I wouldn't!

NOPE

No I would rather rescue - already loads in centres without history needing a home :)

depends on the pup,the breeders, & the parents. so maybe

Yes if it was the right dog :)

& why it was unreg!

If it were a dog from a breed which isn't yet recognised by the KC, but from health tested parents and from breeders who are doing the right thing - yes.

But an unregistered dane? Nope.

I've got two GSD's the same age.  One is KC registered and one isn't.  The KC registered dog has elbow problems and  has to have restricted exercise now for life and the one that isn't is a picture of health. 
Cest la vie!

But were the KC reg dog's parents elbow tested ? My X breed had severe HD, Sight & Eye problems as well as being frightened of everyone she didn't know

I wouldn't buy a pedigree that wasn't registered with either the KC(or ISDS for BCs) otherwise you have no way of knowing what you get & most(95%)of people who register dogs with the KC are honest

The question wasn't about what tests were done - it was just whether they were KC registered.  My KC registered dog is from the Gefni kennels in Warwickshire.  I don't know what tests they do???
He's a nice dog though :D

lovely working GSDs

You get badly bred or unhealthy KC reg dogs of course but that doesn't mean because you do you should sell NONE KC dogs.  not the best comparison I am afraid I think personally.

The whole point of the KC is to help Identify the parentage, health tests, to prove or back up that the dog actually is the breed it should be.

you can have non kc dogs with a full history.
my obedience bred dog has a full history as does my bitch who has a breed mother & a working dad.

not all the time,granted. but sometimes yes,thats why id look at each case indivually

you can also have "lies" on a kc reg dog.sometimes different dogs are written down as father/mother.who is too know?

Michelle I know where you are coming from BUT IN generally it is not adviceable to buy no KC dogs you can do obedience with KC reg dogs to :-))

The point is why pay a premium price which most of the None KC dogs are being sold at  for something you cannot ascertain when you can have a KC reg dog for the same price and froma good breeder.

I don't think there is much sensible arguement in this :-))  ( not you personally just this topic )

,id go for proven obedience lines over breed lines every time. they might well be BCs or not,i go for working ability & attitude.im OBSESSED by lines,but they dont need to be breed/KC lines to know what you are getting.
i knew EXACTLY what i was getting when i got flynn, & hes not breed reg,although has a pedigree as long as your arm.

because im not intersted in breed showing i dont caRE IF THEY  are KC reg,BUT i must know the lines!

the guest has left a too vague topic to be disscused with too many variables!!!!! IMO!

He is at least in part ISDS breeding Michelle isn't he & the ISDS is recognized by the KC. But buying from a farm say were the farmer has never eye tested nor joined the ISDS so has used unregistered dogs of dubious backgrounds(like CEA carriers whose pups can't be ISDS registered)is the same as buying a dog from un reg  pedigree dogs

ie Why aren't the parents registered ?

<you can also have "lies" on a kc reg dog.sometimes different dogs are written down as father/mother.who is too know?><coughs> DNA profiling ?

Michelle I dont' think we are talking working dogs here. :-)) 

BUT if you want to go down this line and you say you are OBSESSED with lines how can you be sure the lines are what you think with some kind of register or Proof.. TO be obsessed with lines you need to know the lines, which is the pedigree which in turn should be backed up with something.

You posts is almost saying it is ok for puppies to be sold none KC , what you are talking about with obedience etc is not what now of us are talking about :-))

Are you trying to say it would be ok for a person to pay £1500 for a bull dog with no KC papers.. I hope and doubt NOT.

We should try not to take the post down the half empty road rather than the half full ;-))

(sorry blue went home last night) he is fully traceable,on the activites reg,but isnt KC breed reg when bought.

hes a quarter ISDS lines
a quarter BC obedience lines
two quarters WS obedience lines

the guest asked "would you buy a non KC dog" well yes i would & have!!! a health checked one,with health checked parents,a full pedigree,which i know to be true,from exellent breeders,from parents & grandparents & lines that i really like!

i know this is not the line that most of the responses to the guest are going down,BUT as ALWAYS theres a different angle! & as most people on here have breed dogs i dont think it does any harm to throw abit of light on a different avenue!! ;)

But there is a difference Michelle as in who bred him & the research done before the breeding was done Not just a non registered dog & bitch of the same breed being bred together

After all with a father's pedigree like your Flynn's father had & of course his father was KC registered( don't know about his mum but I think she is KC reg isn't she ?) & you being an obedience handler it's not the same as buying one for a pet from parents that don't work & are not KC registered is it ;)

no its not the same! ;) thats my point ;)
dogs can be very well bred but not be KC breed reg.
so my respnse to the guest is, still yes ;)cos i have!

i realise this is not the piont that everybody else is trying to make! but the the guest did not give any specifics !!!!only that it was non kc!!!

Think we get your point Michelle :-) the problem rises even in your situation for a Novice who doesn't know lines etc and because of this I would hope even you would advice taken caution. You dogs I presume could have been KC registered could it not?

i think caution & research shpould be taken when chosing ANY dog, KC reg or not, pure or X! i think its too easy to say "oh its KC ,its fine" :S

all my dogs are on the activites reg only, & they could only be on the activies reg as the parents (however well bred) were WSs not BCs.

the whole BC/WS thing does make it abit confusing, but they are KC reg but dont KC "breed" reg.

tara has no further known details,
nellie only has her mums lines
& flynn has all details,6 genrations & beyond

am i making any sense? prob not but i know what im getting at!!!

Surely the whole point in buying a pedigree pup is that it's pedigree can be confirmed ? . Without registration you have no real knowledge of the dogs background and therefore it's likely health status/temperament/physical appearance etc - KC registration is not perfect but it does at least create a checkable framework.

I would always be susupicious of any pedigree pup which was being sold unregistered - it is likely to come from unregistered ( and therefore unlikely to be health screened) parents or be the result of 'dodgy' breeding i.e. father to daughter/successive breedings/very old or very young bitches.

Yvonne

The KC is asking responsible breeders to DNA test their breeding stock, and have the rsult registered with them. They can if any doubts arise check the DNA of the resulting puppies. This will in time have the effect that as we learn more about DNA and health issues, we should be able to produce healthier dogs.

I am sure Norma or Maurice would tell you what tests they do if you bought a Gefni dog.................

I'm really not bothered Tohme but thanks anyway :)

You're not bothered about health tests? Do you really mean that?

Dawn R.

Bit pointless isn't it Dawn? it doesn't change anything.  Follow the thread properly and you'll find out that I'm talking about a dog I already own :)

Would you not liked to have know what health test were carried out prior to purchasing your dog?

UPDATED - I have just looked at their website and they say that the dogs have good hip scores but it does not say what the scores are????

One of the other replies on this thread says something to the effect of 'are they selling unregistered dogs to pay for their registered ones'.  Sadly I know of someone who is dong this, breeding a registered litter on one season and unregistered the next.  Her bitches don't get a rest in between but boy is she making money.  Don't fret the relevant council is now on to her.

God thats terrible and another good point for why buying an unregistered dog is a bad idea, you don't know what you may be contributing to!