why is it when a bitch is is season the owners take them to the show !!! at the last show i attended a bitch was in season and my dog could not his nose off ther floor for one second ! i had his favorite titbits and still no attention i no irt is not agasit the rules but why do people do it ? would it not be nice to let people how their dogs to their best with out them trying to sniff out their mate >

I agree with you, its very annoying.  From what I understand is people have spent a lot of money on a show entry so wont take their bitch out of the show just because she is in season.  Also they miss out on too many shows from the bitch being in season.

This was recently raised in our breed notes and this was my reply to the notes which refered to Birmingham show, which may explain some reasons :D.

"I suspect that my own young bitch who had already forgone the club
championship show (our premiere show) because she had been in season for a
week, was one that caught several dogs interest at Birmingham National when
by the Calendar she had finished her season.

Now without the benefit of a male dog that is all one can go by, even though
I tend to take extra care for some days after just in case.

Interestingly her mother came in season shortly after the show and did not
attract any male interest.

Now there is no Kennel Club rule against showing in season bitches at
conformation events, and in some breeds (like Dobermans) it is done quite
openly.

In fact quite a number of bitches shown by well known longstanding
exhibitors have been in season at shows, one a few years ago was going
straight from the show for mating, and there were two at one of this years,
one in and one just finished.

Bitch owners do not get their entry fees returned, and are more likely to
have their bitches absent either in season or out of coat than the owners of
their male counterparts who don't shed as often.

At any show there will be bitches in season, just about to come in or ones
only just finished and dogs will sense this, if not in our own breed then in
others."

I would add that as our breed is numerically small we only have 18 sets of CCs, and if you are like me you will probably only attend half that number of shows, with sseasons and coat loss and trying to fit in maternal duties makes campaigning a good bitch not easy at all.  It may be a number of years before a particular judge whose opinion you are interested in will be available to go over your exhibit.

In addition to Brainless' excellent answer,

Many owners will have more than one bitch living together, if the one not being shown is in season the one being shown will smell the same, should the owner then keep both bitches away from the show??  If there are a no of bitches coming into season one after the other (sod's law ;) ) the owner would be unable to show any bitch at all!!  A great pity if they are outstanding bitches :(

The main trouble is tho, that although bitches are only in season twice a year (normally) a dog is in season ALL YEAR ROUND ;) ;)

I actually think it's unfair to other people for people to take an in season dog to a show.  I also am in a numerically small breed.  Never agreed with it when I had bitches only and now that I have males I'm totally against it.  Went to a show a few months ago, a champ. show too and it was obvious that someone had had a bitch in season there, my boys just wouldn't behave and when you've got a total adolescent whose bits are ruling his brains at the moment it really isn't funny.

If my bitches come into season they don't go until 4 weeks after showing of signs of being in season.  Missing one or two shows isn't going to do them any harm at all.

That is what most of us do (after all the bitch owner hasn't a hassle free day if they do take the bitch) but then our rivals or people in other breeds do not leave their bitches at home, and the males are still around in season bitches at the show because it is allowed.

Even in breeds where the depth of quality is considered to be in the bitches it is usually the males who go best of breed, precisely because they are on their toes strutting their stuff because of bitches :D 

They don't moult as often as bitches in coated breeds, don't come into season, don't need to take 8 months out of a year from the ring to reproduce. :D

Personally I do take mine once the danger period has passed.  Most bitches dont give off a real scent until around the 10th day onwards.  I have a male in the house and he lets me know when it is not advisable to go.  It never ceases to amaze me how many people are bothered by the site of a bloody bum when the danger period is when the blood is drying up ;)  My two show girls nearly always come in season around July when I would miss 4 - 8 shows easily.

i have no problem people showing their bitches if they are just out of season i just think its abit unfair when their in seasonand you have a dog that hasnt been used and doest no when the right moment is ,

Ah but it is the inexpereinced males that get all het up about a bitch that isn't yet in or has finished her season a fortnight or so earlier.  the expereinced males interest is piqued but they show no special interest unless the bitches are the four or five days when they are fertile.

Yes it is annoying that all the CC shows are concentrated in a couple of weeks and then nothign for ages at other times of the year.

For me that doesn't travel past Stafford in a northerly direction I ahve no shows from Richmond until manchester other than Midland Counties in late October and LKA in December.

I have more of a problem when we follow a breed that "throws" food in the ring!!!   It's very difficult to get your dog to hold its head up, and run nicely around the ring when there are tempting bits of cheese/liver cake scattered everywhere!!

If people do bait their dogs in this way, couldn't they at least pick up after them??

Margot

ARGHHH ...we have followed boxers into the ring several times ...what is it with them throwing those darned toys and bits of food everywhere??

Sorry to Boxer owners but ..well .....it makes life very hard for anyone following you!

My little Alfie is at that hormonal stage at the moment when ANY bitch makes him go mad I couldnt get his head off the ground on saturday when we were in the challenge with the bitch puppy and he is even worse when he smells a bitch nearby he screams his head off to get to her :D :D

if i do  thro titbits i always make sure itdosent put the dog off in front and also i pick after myself , i do what i would like done if i were some one else

I've shown in a ring next to Boxers and what a nightmare. Just don't understand it myself.  My dogs are quite alert, bright dogs, with a great sense of smell and boy we certainly get our work cut out trying to control them.

Absolutely no need for it, having a sniffy breed we do bait, but it is strictly hadn to mouth and I really think that throwing anythign ih the ring shouldn't be allowed as it could even cause a fight in a crowded ring.

Agreed! We bait in malamutes (not everyone does ..) and we don;t chuck stuff around

Someone once thought it was clever to throw a bit of food in the air near Tigger nearly ended up in a major bundle :)

I used to show bitches and now show a dog I see both sides of the debate. However if I have paid my entry fee and there is no rule to forbid me showing a bitch in season I would until such times as they make it a rule and return entry fees. If you keep your bitch out of the ring you could miss a good number of shows and possibly a judge that you have waited on for ages. Dogs are in the ring first so by the time bitches are due to go in the dogs should be judged and back on their benches. There is always some scent in the ring to distract your dog not just bitches in season, as you say food is one of them another is when a dog toilets in the ring. Having said that I would keep my bitch as far away as I could until she is due to be judged and not sit at the ringside as I have seen some doing. Why should someone keep a nice bitch at home lose out on going under a good judge and lose out financially just so dog owners could have an easy time. A bitches show career would be drastically shortened especially in my breed where they do not have a long life span.

I know someone who shows a bitch and would probably not be able to show at all if their bitch had to miss shows because of  seasons, if there are few champshows with CC's for the breed and you can't attend more than a 4 or 5 shows a year, add to that the unpredictability of some bitches seasons, then - because of seasons and coat blowing - showing becomes impossible.  A great shame if there is an outstanding Bitch to be shown.

Perhaps only Dogs should be shown in the mornings and Bitches in the afternoons?  Or maybe there should be separate shows for Dogs and Bitches?

One thing I woudl like to add is some judges will deliberately put you down if you bitch is in season which has happened to us.  One of my friends actually asks the steward to ask the judge then it is his decision. 

Meredith if you are a not seriously considered breed (NSC)  oops, I don't think it means that or any import register then you can have loads of girls in your ring before you, not much fun, waiting until 5 or 6 pm to enter your class and then for your boys to play up.  I've actually always been against it and when I showed Pom's. which I still do occ. I did not take my girls if they were in season.

Though there again I don't do anything that will upset people or is against the rules such as spraying all sorts on the dogs so I suppose I'm weird anyway :d  Can't believe the Shih Tzu rings, what with hot brushes, sprays and potions it's amazing what people use at the shows.  Glad I have my scruffy breed that go as they were born, naturally :d

They were selling straightners for dogs at crufts this year - I nearly bought some for my Irish who thinks he is a curly coated retriever :D :D

Aj but it isn't against the rules to shwo an in season bitch even if you and I prefer not to :D

Spanishwaterdog what you are saying is leave in season bitches at home so that the dog exhibitors do not have any hassle, that would be discrimination in any other walk of life. Its ok for a bitch to miss up to 3 or more shows but heaven forbid a dog should have its chances spoiled. As Brainless says it is not against the rules so it is a personal choice and I personally would choose to show a bitch in season. I am showing a young dog at the moment so I know what it is like, its not easy holding on to a 12 stone Great Dane but that is my problem and as long as people with in season bitches try their best to minimise the bitches exposure I'll live with it.

Hear Hear. Why should bitches be constantly at a disadvantage? Usually the bitch classes are bigger (in my breed, twice the size). If lucky enough to get the ticket, they are disadvantaged when challenging for BOB (especially if winning from the open class) as they are against a dog fresh from a rest when they have just gone through their class followed by bitch challenge. I have experienced dogs jumping on my girls when they are not in season only to be told "she will be in soon". If a bitch has a RCC from a judge and that judge comes around next time when said bitch may be in season, why should her chances be ruined? I have dogs and bitches and accept that the occasional bitch in season may be present at shows - it is the ONE drawback of showing a dog compared to the many outlined above for bitches.

>>as they are against a dog fresh from a rest when they have just gone through their class followed by bitch challenge

that isnt always the case, especially if there are two judges.  last week at bath the bitches in our breed finished way before the dogs :)

Having started off with a male and then having 3 bitches and now another male, I can appreciate both sides of the argument.

I wouldn't show at an open show whatever day she was on but sometimes there might be a Championship show that has a judge you would enter under and of course your bitch times her season perfectly to clash (This is happening to me as it is our breed club Ch. show soon and Mia is in season however I really do want to enter under this judge so I will probably take her and isolate her during the day).  

There have to be a few exceptions and reasons why people do show a bitch in season, I wouldn't take a bitch in season to a show, let her freely mix and upset the males but at the end of the day I have paid my money for my entry.

There's lot of other smells on outdoor show grounds that can make a dog drop it's head, I've shown in a ring that was covered in sheep's poo and one of mine did a brilliant job of hoovering up what she could as we went around the ring! :(

Oh, yes - and the girls also sniff where an in season bitch has been, and usually try to pee on top!

ahem,now don't attack me,but uum I kinda like it when in season bitches are there as my stud dog gets all on his toes,and really strutts his stuff,it is really hard work if the bitch is close by,or has pee'd in the ring,he's a Mastiff,and being dragged about by one of these is no joke,but he does look good,head up,alert,normally he looks like Eeyore,
but can also see the point of view of bitch owner,its not a cheap thing,I personally do not take in season bitches to shows,as their, uuum nether regions get huge,kinda like elephants trunks,oh okay slight exaggeration there,but Mastiffs in season is not pretty,haha
Wendy

as for throwing bait ido not  throw it to disstract any other dog just mine !! i think it is unfair to disstract any other owners dog in the ring . i do it to get my dog short attention span!! i also agree it is normally the "novice"  dogs that will cause a problem with bitches in season , . i would just expect a bit of common decency when a bitch is in season to kepp away from the males . just as dog owners keep their dogs away from other dogs to not cause a fight , i am aware that the entery fees are not returned and i think this is unfare, its not like we can give them the animal type of pill !!! sand choose when they are in season !!
i think the kennel club need to look ito the matter

But do you pick it up, before you come out of the ring, box_mad?    It is as bad for us following into the ring, when asked to run, to find that we are all being halted at the same spot, because there is some tasty cheese/liver cake lying in middle of the ring!

That does distract other dogs - the dogs that follow yours into the ring! :)

Margot

In our breed quite a lot of people use pebbles instead of bait - ie. have bait in the bag/pocket etc but if that extra bit of oomph is need as the judge takes a look back then throw a pebble :)  Of course exhibitors have to pick these up too otherwise the ring would be covered in pebbles but at least any that are missed don't distract the next class of exhibits.

Not recommended for indoor use of course - bit noisy on a wooden floor etc :D

Teri

box mad you say you throw bait to attract your dog but the chances are it wiil also distract other dogs near you and even in the next ring I have experienced this. Even if the Kennel Club looked into the matter I can't see what solution they could come up with, I can't see them refunding money and even if they would exhibitors would need to prove the bitch was in season leading to more paperwork a visit to the vet who would then have to be paid to provide the proof. Perhaps if the Kennel Club allowed bitches to be spayed outwith medical reasons, not everyone wants to breed from their bitch.

Meredith yes I do say that bitches shouldn't be there.  In over 20 years of showing I have never, ever, taken an in season bitch to a show, be it 1 day in season or 20 days in season!!  Though there again maybe I'm not that bothered about winning the CC.  It would be nice but hey I go there for the enjoyment of being with people that I enjoy being with and seeing other dogs that I like.

It didn't bother me 20 years ago when I had a breed that could win cc's and it doesn't bother me now when taking a dog that can't even compete for the group.

As I say maybe I'm weird but hey I like being that way :d

Edited:  Oh and my other breed are Pomeranian's so I have showed a coated breed!

I've showed both sexes of a coated breed for 15+ years and for the first time ever exhibited an in season bitch this year (on her last week).  I wasn't entirely sure about it as I didn't know if it would cause a lot of hassle for my girl or anyone's males but in fact not one single male was anywhere near her :)  We had her sitting in her soft crate well back from the ring, behind our chairs in the shade (VERY hot day :rolleyes:) and when exercised there was plenty of space at the back of the show ground to stretch her legs on a flexi.   We only made the decision to go at the last minute (although we'd entered two bitches) as she'd won the RCC under the same judge at his last appointment (Got the RCC again :rolleyes: :D ) but now having experienced neither upsetting my bitch nor putting off other dogs I don't see it was a big deal. I guess it just depends how responsible the owners are - which applies to any owners of dogs in general at shows ;)   Also at £20 + for CC entries nowadays I don't think it's reasonable to expect bitch owners to forego shows they've already entered - as you'll know season timings can be fickle!  Just an insight into my new experience, regards Teri :)

I too have exhibited a bitch in season, Teri with no distrubance to any other dogs.  I guess common sense (and understanding) is what is called for.  Unfortunately, common sense isn't very common these days! :(

<Perhaps if the Kennel Club allowed bitches to be spayed outwith medical reasons, not everyone wants to breed from their bitch>

Er they have done for a long time now & allowed bitches & dogs without progeny to be shown after neutering since the early 80's before than you have to have medical reasons and the dog/bitch had to have progeny registered at the KC-my Champion bitch was one of the first to be given permission way back in the early 80's & sadly she never had any puppies

Moonmaiden I know they do allow it but permission must be sought and if you speak to the kennel club they will tell you there shouldn't be a problem but will not guarantee giving permission. I did not phrase that sentence very well.

All you do is download the form & send it off to the KC & they ok it

It is only for other ops that medical evidence is needed they now never question neutering

True Val - on both counts :(   Personally I don't enter champ shows with adults at the distances I have to travel (usually 600-700 mile round trip) to only have a blether ringside and hope to get a place in my class - I'm there looking to win the CC if I believe the dog is good enough (which is the only reason I'd travel that far anyway ;) )   Different going with youngsters to gain experience both travelling in the car for extended periods and maybe making a whole weekend out of it regardless of results, but it's too expensive nowadays for most exhibitors to take that attitude.   Having found everything went well when I tried it, it's something I would certainly do again - not go out of my way to do, because I'd not want my girls upset, but if I thought everything was OK for them and knew the venue suitable to keep them segregated from other dogs then I don't see why it need be an issue.   I've shown males who've benefited from in season bitches being around too - so it's swings and round-a-bouts ;)  Teri

yes i do pick up after i have thrown or flicked a bit of treats for him some times straight away to use it as bait. are people also agasit people picking grass and soforth to istract the dogs . i am sorry if i do disstract ther dogs in the same or other rings . i do this for my sole intention only not to put away one else off, my dogs has a cvery very short atteion span

I do find it amusing watching the boxer handlers at ring craft, one minute they are standing their dogs and the next minute a big chunk of sausage goes flying through the air :D :D :D

My poor little Alfie sits there praying the next bit will come his way :p

I'd love to know who finally decided to do this with Boxers and I must admit I do find it funny sometimes, and have been stood next to someone in a different ring who has been hit by a bit of liver :d  Oh and I've also been to shows where Boxer owners have taken their own mats in the class for the dogs to stand on!!

Also who decided on GSD's to be run round with their other owners outside the ring running around to attract them.  It's even worse in Europe and it's rather comical to watch :d

Sorry, not having a go at the owners of these breeds, but there are other breeds that have just as short a capacity as the Boxer but they don't do it.

as a kid my family showed Afghans and a friend of ours (also in the breed) was asked to handle a boxer, it was the first time we had seen boxers shown and my god did we giggle ourselves stupid, there were all manner of things being chucked around - from big green fluffy toys to bits of food, and all our friend was told to chuck was a blade of grass :D :D

Its quite clever though really, if I chucked a toy or piece of food away from my boy it would certainly keep his attention because he would be flying after it :p

Ahhhh I am one of those Boxer exhibitors who on occasions
does take my own mat with me for my dog...............
The way I see it is
Why should my dog be at a disadvantage if it is slipping on the slippery
sports hall floor if the show society hasn't provided any mats for the dogs to stand on?
Some surfaces are fine and they don't slip others they can start sliding..LKA and Crufts carpets
they slide on too.
If I don't have my mats I'll spit on their paws or try the old paw wax but even that doesn't work sometimes.

Yes I'm another of those 'heaven forbid' Boxer people that does bait my dog, but not extensively
and I don't throw my bait.
Over the years I've figured out that edam cheese is better and less likely to crumble, therefore less
likely to leave bits on the floor. I also use sausage cut in small chunks.

Oh and one of my Boxers shows their boredom in the ring by barking very noisly if the judge is being too slow
:D

I have also seen the unsportsmanlike behaviour where in BC's someone has thrown their bait out to distract
another dog being stood.

I'm not being nasty, but why are boxers the only ones to need mats to stop their feet slipping? Dobes can be terribly overangulated and overextended, but I've not seen them slip ...

Likewise a stacked Wei or Setter??????    I've never seen them on mats either?  Maybe one rule for the Boxer people and another for everyone else???????

Some people in the Irish ring were using mats at crufts this year to stop their dogs slipping :)