after some research(with the help of terry!) i have discovered some possibly horrifying news that firstly..my pups mum was the result of inbreeding with dad and daughter(to produce my pups mum,who then had my pup..and so on.) but also that my pups mums mum(my pups grandma) has had 6 litters with her dad!!!!!!! terry and i think we smell a puppy farm somewhere here? i bought my pup (siberian husky who is 8 wks old) from who appeared to be a genuine lady.she showed me the pups parents kc papers and the dad wasnt hip-scored,but mum was.both eyetested clear.the pup is not kc as dad wasnt hip-scored.she was sold to  me as a pedigree for 400.and appeared(still does)to be in good health. i am having her vaccinated in a few days,should i ask my vet? im concerened about any health problems that may result of this in-breeding and(or) the possibility of her mum comming from a puppy farm.
i cannot afford to pay out for any expensive tests.have i been conned? or is there a chance she will remain healthy???

Rachel - I suggest that you do a search on line breeding and interbreeding (use the search button, top right hand side of your screen) which will briefly explain the principles behind it - there may have been good reasons for your breeder to have such close breedings and I would suggest that you ask her why these matings were carried out - if she is a good breeder, she will be able to explain what points they wanted to "fix" by breeding so closely.

Margot

i have written to her and still waiting for a reply. i did  think  that if she is a good breeder  then why not  hip-score the sire? i  think  the people that produced the dam of my pup were  responsible  for the in-breeding.is there a way of finding out if i dont hear back from the breeder?

there is nothing wrong with in breeding or line breeding when done responsibly, & personally id perfer it as id know what i was getting.

id be more concerned by the fact that the breeder told you that the dad needed to be hip scored for the puppies to be KC reg,which is not the case.:(
huskies seem to have a very low average, 7 last time i looked,for hips so i wouldnt worry to much about that.

thanks for that piece of mind.terry emailed  me and said that her pedigree was bad? i dont know much about it.so if anyone else is able to tell me more i can forward both sire and dams pedigree to you by email.why do you  think she said she couldnt kc the pups because of hip-scoring?? is there anyway i could find out or get her kc? if both parents were?

the breeder has to register the litter,so you could ask her?& offer to pay for it.
it could be that her pedigree IS bad,but in breeding can fix good pionts & bad pionts just as easily,but its not like people doing it!!!!!there is no point in sending it to me as i know sod all about  huskies.

re the hip scoring thing,id think there could be a different reason why she didnt want them reg,eg maybe the amount of litters the bitch has had or her age etc? but thought that the hip score thing may sound plausible & better maybe than the real reason??

look youve got your baby now,just have fun & enjoy ,& learn for next time ;)

Love to know how old the bitch s that has had 6 litters, it's not illegal and is JUST accepted by the Kennel Club but I wdn't. breed a bitch personally that many times and not repeat matings that are so close either.

>id think there could be a different reason why she didnt want them reg,eg maybe the amount of litters the bitch has had or her age etc? but thought that the hip score thing may sound plausible & better maybe than the real reason??<

This is exactly what i was going to say,perhaps she has been blacklisted by the KC! This breeder has definately got something to hide IMO. Now that your armed with the correct info,she cant try and hoodwink you any further,i would be interested in what her excuse is for not reg. the pups now that she knows you know this is false!

yes id just politly ask her if she would reg him for you & if she says she cant cos dad isnt hip scored,just say "well that makes no difference to KC registration does it?"

It does if that's one of the conditions for the sire's breeder to lift the endorsements of his registration ...

yes IF thats the reason, but the breeder didnt say that,they are not KC reg because the sire is endorsed?she said it was because he wasnt scored.
it may be that when probed further then that may be the reason,although  i still feel it is an excuse & the prob with registrying may well lie with the bitch,either age or prevoius litters

the bitch, the grand dam of rachaels pup was born in 97.  she has had a litter every year from the 1st litter in `99 to the last litter in 2004, 6 in total.  3 consecutive litters were sired by her own sire '00, '01, '02, she then had another litter by a different dog in 03 and then a fourth litter sired by her own sire again last year being born in feb 04, would not be suprised if another litter is born before she reaches her 8th birthday in dec of this year :-(   i do not know these people, found the info in the BRS

who is the brs? where can i find that information? poor grandma,sounds like shes run into the ground :-(

BREED RECORD SUPPLEMENT, a KC publication detailing all registered litters, hipscores eye tests.

do the owners of grannie also own mom?

no dont believe so

do you know which litter mom was born into? or how many litters shes had?

the owner of the gran is in scotland,im led to believe.im not sure how many litters my pups dam has had.the dam is  owned by my pups breeder.i have the pedigree of the sire and dam if that helps?

mum has had no registered litters as of yet, she is almost 3 years old, born in the 02 litter  breeder of granddam is in the northeast. 

does it suggest any reason why the pups arent registered??

Is there many breeds where breedng father to Daughter is normal..  Personally wouldn't be me not matter what the fortune was and likewise unless she was just out of this world , the breed would be lost without her off spring I think 6 litters is too much also and certainly in that time frame.  The fact you are questioning it at least you know it doesn't seem like the best set up.

Probably nothing you can do about it now but enjoy your pet and hopefully she will lead a healthy life for you . :-)
PS I am presuming when you bought the puppy you knew when you were buying it that is wasnt KC reg , this gave you the choice to go ahead or not?

it is not normal in siberians for such close matings, nor is having so many litters from one bitch, nor is doing such a close breeding so many times!  it would seem from the info that these people are not breeding for the good of the breed and appear to be churning out pups for money and little else.  i know the pedigrees of the dogs involved and can see no good reson for such a close inbreeding, neither dog have excelled in the ring or on the trail and neither have any resulting offspring as far as i am aware.
kelly 

kelly out of interest are these working lines?show lines Or dual purpose?

im not entirely sure.she was advertised as ped but not kc,so i knew that i was buying a family pet.i dont know much about kc,the excuse i was given over the phone prior to purchase was that dad wasnt hip-scored.as i was not after a champion or anything like that i decided to buy her,only to find out later about the in-breedings! i was curious about her background and came across this info.just worried there might be health implications thats all.i thought if it was just the hip-score then i might be able to get her kc.at the time of purchase kc really didnt matter(still doesnt) but just thought that if thats the only reason then why not kc her!

So you do understand now, Rachel, that YOU can't register her with the KC?

Enjoy your puppy for what she is - a lovely, family pet.

Margot

i agree,margot,theres not much you can do,just love your lovely puppy & learn for next time :)