Does anyone show a cocker spaniel with a tail or have seen people do it.  I am new too showing and i have shown my bitch but she doesnt get anywhere and most people have said its because of her tail.  I know that i am allowed to show my cocker with or without a tail but i havent seen anyone in my area, (Cornwall) do it.

Thanks

Hi,yes you certainly can show your cocker with a tail, it is becoming more common now with the newer docking laws, some breeders are leaving tails longer in every litter they breed to wean people into seeing the different breeds with longer then full tails. There are some beautiful cockers and american cockers being shown at champion shows with full tails, Love your baby's tail and be proud!
regards
Pauline

Thanks

Do you ever see any undocked cockers showing in open shows or mainly champ shows and how do they normally get on.

BOB in american cockers had a tail at crufts I think.  Although not the cocker it won with a tail! :)

Ya i saw that i was so pleased but in English Cockers the judge cant seem to see pass the tail which i think is very sad.  What are they going to do if they ban docking.

Then they will HAVE to accept.  It is sad if they can't see past, but from a pro docking veiw it's sad to see how we have loved our breed, the apperance may *have* to change! :(  I don't know if this is the case but are cocker judges protesting against tails? as a way of not accepting it?

I must admit I don't want to say tails are ok on docked breeds because I feel like I'm giving up and accepting it!

I don't know just an idea.

ya I think that they are but at the end of the day they should see pass the tail as they are not meant to judge the tail as such just the height etc.

I think most judges do judge the dog itself and indeed quality cockers with tails have done well but I'm afraid a lot of the tailed ones I see are, in my opinion, not quality dogs I'm afraid.

How do you know its a good dog or a bad dog do you breed any i only ever see cocker without a tail and they seem to get far but then again i was showing with a well know breeder at a match and mine won and she said then that i am judging the dog not the tail which was nice and she won and the other cocker did not get anywhere.  Yet at proper shows he always wins.

>How do you know its a good dog or a bad dog

That's something that comes with experience and a lot of study!
:)

I have owned cockers for 25 years although it is only my most recent one that I started showing about 10 years ago athough I had been going to shows for some years before that.  I have seen some good cockers with tails but most of the tailed cockers I see are pets and some find their way into a show ring :).  If your cocker is any good I am sure it will rise even if you have a slightly harder job getting there :).  One tip might be to show under all rounders rather than breed judges although in honesty I do think judges are, in general, being very fair about the tail business.

I do feel judges who don't judge to the standard (which allows for full tails) should be honour-bound to retire. They're cheating the exhibitors.

HI

What do you show.  Do you also show cockers and have you seen any with tails that are shown.

I have dalmatians, which I showed for 30 years, but I've pretty much retired them now.

I must admit I love cockers, and would love a tailed one, but the tailed ones I've seen have been pet-bred, so although they're lovely dogs they're never going to be winners, with or without tails. I'd hope a quality tailed one would do well ...

Thanks

You are so nice, so do you do any showing now then or breeding.  HOw many dogs/bitches do you have.  Mine was a meant to be a pet but with showing potential if i wanted to show her.  At first i just wanted her as a pet but then a couple of cockers breeders said i should show her.  So i am but only coz both of us like doing it and it nice to meet new people.

HI - I have two spayed bitches aged 12 and 10, and two entire dogs aged 6. The oldest one is mother to the rest. One of the dogs is at very limited stud, and I may get around to showing him again sometime, but they're now pretty much purely companions.

You're right, showing is a good way to socialise (both you and your dog!) and is fun as long as you don't take it too seriously! Always remember you take the best dog home with you every time!

How old is your cocker? What colour is s/he?
:)

My cocker is a lovley black with a white chest and she is only 9 months old.  We are hoping to breed from her at our first show we got asked if i would like to use her with this really nice stud dog.  So she cant be that bad so if you want a pup in a few years time you know where to come.

For showing solid black should not have a white chest, is she show or working lines?
You are not allowed to advertise puppies on the forum by the way.

I think that if you look in the kennel club breed standard you will find that they are allowed to have white on the chest but no where else.  I was not advertising i was just joking i havent even got any pups. Thanks for the info though.

Yes it does but you don't see many in the ring :), generally they will loose out to others of equal merit without a patch but again you may find all rounders less picky about these things.

Thanks

I did not know that i thought that because it was allowed then they wont judge you against another dog without any white.

They shouldn't but when they have nothing much else to choose between them it could make the difference. Its the same for particolours with odd face markings or an awful lot of white they don't do well unless they are clearly ahead of the competion in all other aspects.  Thats just the way it is when all else is equal the judge is entitled to their preference or prejudice if you prefer :).  Personally I would not choose these markings from a litter if I was planning to show but if I bought a pet and it turned out to be a nice specimen I would show it and be pleased to get my wins when they came along :)  What colours were her parents?

Isabel, colour blindness, tail blindness It's all the same thing! Well in my book it is!

Colour blindness usually refers to a choice between black or gold for instance.  Looking for a pleasing appearance in terms of markings is, I think, something we expect in the showring although of course not at the expense of other virtues.

Choosing between a solid black and a black with a white chest is also colour blindness.  A judge then is faulting something they shouldn't down to colour! (Unless I'm wrong of course and the breed standard states it should be penalised!)

How can markings be "faulted" (I use term loosly!) unless they are clearly mismarked.  In ANY breed that has different colours/markings anything within the breed standard should be acceptable!  Will a black cocker with a white chest still be able to work?  If it can work then it can do the job it's expected to do :)

Luckily I'm in two breeds, one parti-colour where we accept them almost nearly white to having a big sadle over their back and a breed that has 16 colours (if you get really picky! :D ) and rarely do we have colour blind judges! (yes there's exceptions! :) )

It depends on how much white there is on the chest - I can think of any number of top Cockers who have small amounts of white on their chest & one gold champion who had quite a big area of white on his chest. Generally large amounts of white appears in dogs from mixed particolour x solid matings, one of the reasons why show breeders tend to prefer to keep solids & partis separate for breeding.

Going back to tails, there are a few undocked Cockers who are shown with reasonable success but as the others have said, good quality undocked Cockers are few & far between. In American Cockers, those undocked dogs who have done spectacularly well have been either top quality imports or overseas dogs competing over here (as at Crufts), not "homegrown" dogs. It is easy to blame biased judging if an undocked Cocker fails to do well but this is not always fair - I have given firsts to undocked Cockers & will do so again if he/she is the best in the class but you can only judge what's there in front of you on the day - the quality has to be there along with good presentation & handling (something that many new owners take time to learn to do really well).

Jane

HI

Thanks to all of you that have helped me.  My bitches sire is black and white and the mum solid black.  I really dont know why if you had a good solid black show dog, why you would breed it with black and white as of course the pups would have white on them.  Saying that my bitch (Kayleigh)  had a white chin and four white paws thats why i had her as a pet at first.  However all of the white has grown out and she is still only 9 months old. That is why i started showing her as lots of breeders though that she was good enough to show.  So now when i breed her i would like to keep one of the pups, but they all could end up havin white on them, even if i breed her with a solid black.  Which is course not allowed in shows only on the chest.

hiya
rox both cc winners at crufts im yankies were with tails and i actually dont see the problem with yankies with tails as long as they have the corect carrage so if it does come in i will still be showing them!! not so sure about the poodles though.
what breed are you talking about the colour blindness thing yankies can have a white strip down there front as long as it is not wider than a dollar

good luck with your cocker


fiona
edited to say sorry i didnt see the other post by Jeangenie

As the post is about cockers (english) thats what I'm talking about! :)

Tho colour blindness does appear in every breed that has more then one colour, or is party coloured! (even if their is only one judge! :) )

hiya
yer i gatherd that rox i was half asleep when i was reading and writing lol it does seem to be apearing in alot of breeds
fiona

Both American Cocker CC winners at Crufts had full tails.