I've jsut got back from the All About Dogs show - I wasn't wowed by it, it was okay, but not as good as I thought it would be - seemed a bit disorganised.  Anyhoo, that's not the rant!

Just as we were leaving, a woman with a hefty red dobermann called me over to ask about mine (he's a fawn, always getting mistaken for a weim or weim X, no different this time), and I mentioned that I was on the lookout for a halti harness.  I won't use a head collar on him, as he tends to randomly throw himself at the end of the lead - if he sees a cat or duck or rabbit, things like that, and I don't spot them soon enough to stop him.  If he had a head collar on he could do that once and damage his neck.  I said all this to her, and she sadi "no, that won't happen - we are selling figure-8s, I'll show you."  She got this head collar out, basically one strap threaded twice through a ring, so that a loop is made to go over the dog's nose, then the two ends go under the jaw and around the back of the head.  She demonstrated it on her weim - who was trying her damndest to get away from it.  That wasn't so bad - I can udnerstand dogs not liking it.  But while we were talking, one of her colleagues was talking to a family with something like a mastiff X (possibly with a staff), lab-sized dog.  The colleague had put a figure-8 on the dog, and was talking to them about it - they didn't look impressed.  Hardly a surprise - the dog was going absolutely nuts trying to get it off - when we stopped talking and left, it had clawed at the figure-8 so badly it had blood running slowly from the top of its nose.  The thing may work, but surely they need to talk to people about introducing their dogs to it so that doesn't happen?  The dog's owner looked more than a bit miffed!

I use gentle leaders on mine and they work a treat but they have to be introduced gradually which is what a lot of people dont realise.   They have to see them as something good i.e. a walk follows, their dinner followed and play followed.  They now dont bat an eyelid about them.

Talking about headcollars, I wish EVERYONE with big dogs would use them.  I have also been to the Brentwood dog show today, where all the dogs were so well behaved - until I saw a man and a lady walking around with two newfoundlands each (no headcollars).  Suddenly one of the newfies pulled its lead from its shocked owner and tried to grab a jack russel. The poor jack russel owner was swinging his dog around by the neck trying to keep it away from the Newfie.  It was all the owner of the newfies could do to keep the others from joining in.  I started over to help, but luckily a bystander grabbed the newfies lead and held on to him.  I don't think the owners even apologied to the poor jack russel owner.

I think no matter how well trained you think your dog is, if it is a big dog, then only a headcollar/halti/gentle leader or whatever, will hold them when they suddenly lunge.

Other than that, Saffy loved her day out - especially the scurry run which she just wouldn't stop doing - up and down she went - very funny!!! (they were not timing anyone at that time as we were there late).

Fiona

I also use gentle leaders for one of my boys, he isnt the biggest of my gang but he could put a husky to shame with his pulling power. Since starting him on a gentle leader he is a different boy and not getting into trouble the whole time for pulling. Lead walks are now a pleasure to do. I love my power steering!!!!   I know those figure of eight ones and didn't really think they would suit my dogs - they just didnt seem to do the job. You must introduce any head collar gradually because any dog will make a fuss of you having complete control when they are used to being the boss.

That's what bugged me about it so much - they didn't even try to introduce it slowly to the poor dog, just put it on him and ignored him as he scratched at it and injured himself.

The thing with the newfies sounds awful - I didn't see anything like that happen while I was there, fortunately.  I do think sometimes headcollars can be a good idea, certainly at times like that - having control of the head is definitely better than the body (as with the halti harness) if the dog is aggressive.

Of course, just having control at all is good - I've jsut got back from a classic car show in my home town this morning, and been dragged all round it by remy (with Opi walking nicely as always :D) - we went down a street full of stalls, and a little lab came out and went for Opi, snapping and snarling.  I was not impressed - not lead, nothing - it lives in a doll's house shop there, and they'd just left the door open so it could come and go as it wanted.  They shouted at it and sent it in, didn't apologise to me, and when we went past later the door was still open - the dog was elsewhere though, fortunately.

hi please try dogmatic they are wounderfull they do not hassle you to buy and are very helpfull , they  send you out a booklet and if you need and further advise just ring or email them , we use one for dud as he was attacked and he tended to lunge on the halti the dogamtic doesnot move around the face or  rub although i did place a bit of ved bed on the nose band till the leather had sofend .

I use the dogmatic on 2 of my sheps.  They are excellent and don't ride up into the eyes like I've found haltis and gentle leaders to do.

Sarah.

Alexanders.

I have a giant breed dog and at the moment I am weaning him off a halti style leader. I am aware of his size and can control him without a halter, lunging or not.
Not all large dogs need halti's so dont assume that they all need them, maybe the Newfi has been attacked by a JR in the past, it is a VERY common occurence with big dogs, as I have experienced this on many occasions but luckily my dog has yet no hang ups about this.

A dog is a dog in any situation. Maybe we should muzzle them all to save any problems.

Jwilson, I think the lady in question thought her dog was well behaved and that she could manage him - she had him in the ring at the dog show and none of the four dogs that were with her and her husband had haltis on.  If it were the case it had been attacked before, then surely a dog show with many breeds about would put you on your guard.  While I realise that not all dogs are the same, as you say "a dog is a dog in any situation" and can therefore lung suddenly and without warning.  No dog is 100% reliable in all situations.  I saw a girl pulled over by her Leo at the same show - again, just on a collar.

I myself have a large breed, but I wouldn't take her out without her halti simply because she is much stronger than me.  She is generally well behaved, but on occasion can suddenly lunge if she sees a cat.  How many times have people said 'he/she has never done that before?'.  I think it is better to be safe than sorry.

By the way, why are you weaning your dog off a halti - out of interest.

Fiona

Alexanders,

I'm weaning him off the halti cause I dont really like using them.Voice and hand control are starting to work now (through months of training) but if I'm going to be somewhere exciting then I will still use it. Headcollars are great cause they work, but I do prefer flat collars and leads, so loads of training is a must.

I have a figure of 8 collar for my dobe and it is good -however they can back out of them ..mine did on a main road the dogmatic is far better until they get between the jaws of a terrier pup who ate it in 10 mins ...she is now pinned to the washing line by her ears :rolleyes: :D

ps last  bit was a joke :)

i do agree that not all big dogs are bad mine was good as gold but ince he was attacked my a jr and yt the i wont leave with out it . as he may jsut have a change of mind and repay the dogs .

I never said all big dogs were bad, just that if they did decide to pull you suddenly, you wouldn't physically be able to stop them :).

Fiona

I fell onto my knee this morning when Luke - on a flat collar and 4 foot lead- did a slight lunge but I think it was more because there are lots of bits on the ground from the trees, which makes it unsafe underfoot.
Well, we're 3 months on from the Walking with Dogs seminar, and we're persevering - but I do sometimes use the Walkezee harness because I feel it's safer for me. We tried a dogmatic last year, but he absolutely hated it, and became really depressed when he had it on. He would just lie down and not move. We had it checked by the Dogmatic people at the Windsor show last year (Whoops! I've forgotten the name...) who said the fit was fine- then he just laid down again. I don't think they knew what to do about that. I'm afraid I'm too soft hearted to persevere with something that makes him so unhappy, when there are other ways - so the dogmatic's joined the halti & gentle leader in the cupboard.....:-(...(the gentle leader belonged to our late collie cross, who was fine on it)

one of my boys is like this when I put his Dog Alter head collar on, it makes him so miserable and I was having to practically drag him round his walk so in the end I take it off :(

my other one is fine with his - weird arent they :rolleyes: