Could anyone tell me how you get a show certificate of merit (Sh.CM)? Also could anyone tell me how you qualify for crufts in Ireland? Is it just the same as here or what? I was wondering because we are doing the Munster circuit in august and I wasn't sure in any of the shows were crufts qualifying. I would be really grateful if anyone could help. Thanks :)

Sarah xxxx

Sh CM.  =  25 points, 5 of these point MUST be gained in Group.  
BOB = 1 point
G1 = 4points
G2 = 3points
G3 = 2points
G4 = 1 points
All points can be gained at open shows, as opposed to JW, where you need min points from Champ Show

All points from a single open show count.  ie: BOB = 1,  G3 = 2, so that gives you 3 points at that show.

Hope that helps :)
Kay

Edited to say:  sorry don't know about the Irish circuit (yet)

That great thanks :) and do you have to record JW point and Sh.CM point yourself or what? Oh and with the Sh.CM do you have to get these points before a certain age? Sorry there are a lot of questions!

Sarah xxxx

P.S do you get any points for best puppy in breed?
 
Edited : Sorry, one more thing do you get more point at champ shows?

Hi Sarah yes you have to record the points yourself,there is no age limit on the ShCM, You would only get point for a pup if you won BOB. puppy group  and BPIB don't count towards ShCM and Champshows dont count for ShCM

That's brilliant, thank you :)

Sarah xxxxx

HI Kay :-)

I know we had this conversation recently :-) did you find out if there still had to be 3 in the class to get the group points.

My trouble in Scotland is 9/10 their isn't more that 2 in the breed class.

My last 3 shows I have won best of breed, won the group, 2 shows I got BPIS , so beat a lot of dogs in the group and then the BIS challenge but never got Junior warrant points for them.

Today was an example 4 of my breed at the open show, but only2 in my class, won my class ( only2) the got best of breed, and then group 2 ( he is only 2 days out of puppy)  but do I get points toward the SH  CM.. I know I don't for the junior warrant.. OH and I ask got burnt silly in the sun so get the sun cream out.. my fingers are even burned :-(

It is difficult to  enter other dogs in the other classes because you then stuggle if you win the classes and you have to challenge them all .  I had 3 of mine entered in a open show this year, I got the open, puppy and graduate class and I had to scrabble around and ask anyone I could see to take the other 2 into the unbeaten dog challenge :-))  not easy at times.

Will see if the full rules are on line. 

Blue it doesnt matter how many are in the class for ShCM if you get BOB because you are the only one there you can claim 1 point.

A Kennel Club Show Certificate of Merit (ShCM) will be issued on application by the registered owner at the time of qualification, in respect of a dog that has obtained 25 points at General and Group Open Shows. A minimum of five points must be won in Group Competition. The scale of points is as follows:-
(1) Five points for Best in Show
(2) Four Points for Single Group Best in Show
(3) Group placings will obtain the following points: (Multi Group Shows only)
1st - four points, 2nd - three points, 3rd - two points and 4th - one point.
(Puppy Group placings do not gain points)
(4) One point for Best Any Variety Not Separately Classified. (AVNSC Hound, Gundog, etc. winner of overall Best AVNSC).
(5) One point for Best of Breed.
(6) The title "ShCM" may be used after the name of the dog on show entries and in catalogues.
(7) Only points won on after the 1st January 2003 may be counted towards this award.

So today you can claim 1 point for BOB and  3 points for group 2

OH was just about tp post this :-))

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/forms/showcertofmerit.pdf

When I saw your reply.. thanks :-))

I willneed to dig out all my catalogues now for this year ;-)

For the ShCM unlike the JW there isn't a minimum number of dogs.  It is BOB or BNSC that gets one point and then the Group placings.

Cheers Brainless :-) 

The SH CM  I notice also has to be in classes other than puppy classes.

the class doesn't matter as it is the BOB or BNSC that counts for the award not a class win.

sorry completely read that wrong I should have said that the points from the puppy group don't count for the SH CM it must be the normal group

For JW if there were not enough dogs in the class, but there were 3 or more entered in the breed and you got BOB then you get a JW point.

Brainless, maybe you could help.  Blue and I were having a conversation last week.   Now, at the moment you can only get the JW point IF there are 3 dogs IN the ring for the class, and take BOB regardless of entry.  But from 1st Jan 2006 the rules have significantly changed.  The JW point canbe gained IF 3 or more dogs have entered, but only one dog in the ring, the entered but missing dogs will be deemed to be present.  And for the life of me I cant find where I read this!!!!!!  Only a couple of months ago.   I think it was DW.

Its because of the lack of turnout at open shows, I have given up on Tia's JW, ie: 6 dogs entered, 2 turn up, Tia takes 1st and BOB but NO JW point!!!!!

Certainly haven't seen that one, and would ahve taken notice being in a humerically small breed.  My Jozi had more than 30 points but she at that time needed 10 classes at Open shows and this was foot and mouth year.  As it was she did win 10 classes abut 4 of them had only two dogs.  So no Junior Warrant for her, which is why I wanted to get one with her daughter. 

I didn't get a single point out of puppy classes and only started picking them up from East of England (Mid July) onward from Junior and Post Graduate, even though she was only 10 months old by then.

This meant that by the time she was out of Junior she already had won four Post Graduate classes.  By 19 months she had won out of Post Graduate actually having won 7 and will be in her last PG at Bath, so Limit from now on.

>It is difficult to  enter other dogs in the other classes because you then stuggle if you win the classes and you have to challenge them all .  I had 3 of mine entered in a open show this year, I got the open, puppy and graduate class and I had to scrabble around and ask anyone I could see to take the other 2 into the unbeaten dog challenge )  not easy at times.

Don't I know it,  I have the same problem with Summer and Tia.  I asked the closest person too me to take Tia in for the challenge and I took Summer.  Next time I will look around for a more suitable person tohandle gundog.  The person I asked showed Poms. Poor Tia was nearly strung up lol :D :D , But it was really good of her to take her.   I also got asked to take a Whippet in at one show.  Its really weird handling a different breed.

It is even worse when you are trying to support your breed, I ahve nothing under 8 years old that isn't in Limit or above.  At Three Counties without CCs I have had to enter bvoth Mum and Pup in Open as they ahve put on Puppy Junior Post grad and Open classes when there is never going to be a big entry in Post graduate as that is first adult class for any pups coming through. 

We always need Limit and Open at Open show level as we are a top Heavy entry having dogs that show well into Veteran years and few new dogs coming up each year.  Junior would be enough for Pups and Juniors (any pup unbeaten by a Pup would still go through for Best puppy.)

I will set aside time and go through all my notes. I Know I have it somewhere, but because of no chance of gaining JW for Tia, sort of disregarded it for time being and concentrated on her Ch CM.  I will post as soon as I find it.

Kay

The form on the KC site hasn;t changed Kay so not sure.

I think it is good though you get points from the group because you have to beat a few dogs to ge places in the group.

I was asked to take a Saluki in once and I run it up and down strung up like a westie.. I bet the owner was well pleased LOL she gave me the one she didn't want to win thankfully ;-)))

I am hiding in doors today out of the sun.. with my aloe vera on LOL nursing my surn burn..

>>There were only two dogs in my class and the third dog did not show up, preventing my dog from obtaining a point, can I still claim the point? If the third dog was at the Show and was present in its first class then yes. If the dog was not present at the Show and has been marked absent then no. <<

Just found this in the questions and answers on the KC site.. so

Yep I agree with you Blue and Brainless, have just checked KC site myself, just in case.  Do any of you ever have moments like this when your brain tells you that you have read something and you are convinced, I am now doubting myself. Have quickly scanned all my notes and cant find it, but am still trying to convince myself I did read this.  Think it was  Jack Peachy who wrote it in his "Get it right column". Guess who is going to be on the phone to him tomorrow :D :D   Or will come back and apologise with mouth full of humble pie :P

Hi Sarah,
how are you and puppies? hope all doing great! :)
Glad you are looking foreward to Munster, I cant be sure for this year...... but last year according to catalogues just looked it up, for your breed, there needed to be 5 dogs (or bitches)  present in the class in order for the winning dog from the class, to get a  major green star. You need to get one major green star (worth 5 points) to qualify your dog/bitch for Crufts from Ireland. You can only get the green star if your dog comes first in the class, not for a second or third, and only a major if there are at least 5 doing being judged.

Also, are your puppies registered to show here? If not, you will need to get an 'import' form also known as an 'authority to compete' form from the Irish Kennel Club, as well as a formal copy of your puppies pedigree (from the KC, with the KC stamp on it). Then you will need to fill out the import form and send it with a copy fo the official pedigree ,and a copy of the KC registrations (with the dogs owners name on it) to the IKC.
Maybe you could ring the IKC to find out more details, as this is going on last years information,
please let me know if I can be of any help,
love to the puppies,
Carol and Ollie :)

www.ikc.ie

Hi there carol!! :)

The puppies are great thank you for asking. :D

Yeah I can't wait till Munster. We are hoping to qualify them here but if we don't we were wondering what the rules were in Ireland. Does it say in the catalogues how many wheaten were entered last year? As I would be interested to know.

We have filled in the forms for them to be registered with the IKC but we are waiting for Dougals owner registration certificate to come through again cause like you said we need to send that as well.
Thank you very much for you offer of help. The only thing that I can think of is do you know by any chance the best place to stop in Mallow, co cork? We need some accommodation so we are trying to find somewhere. Oh and if im not being too much of a pest can you tell me where I can get the entry form for the shows including the all Ireland terrier one on in Dublin in august. I would be really grateful if you could tell me.

The puppies are really big now (full sized!!) Do you have an email address so I could show you a picture? Hope you are not working too hard with your studying! Love to little Ollie. :D

Sarah xxxx 

hi sarah
just to let you no foster is 8 points of his sh.CM so its looking good im really pleased with him lets just hope mum has added it up properly lol good luck with your next show and maby see you soon??
fiona

Hi Sarah, yes the puppies must be all grown up now!!! amazing how fast they grow!!!
just looked up one of the catalogues as an example and there were roughly 16 wheatens present at the show, with 11 of them being bitches.
I don't know Cork that well but this is a good site that might be able to help you    http://www.petholidays.com/Ireland/Ireland.asp     last I checked there were details of an apartment in Mallow, I hope this is of help. :)
The All Ireland Terrier Assoc. show is on the 20th of August, and I will send you a private message now with the secretarys details if you want to mail her to get one early, also I am going to a Ch show tomorrow and if I see any (porbably not its still a good while away!) I will take one for you!
I'll pm you now with those details,
Carol :)

That's great thanks carol, only five dogs in the show! That will be good for Dougal! :D Thank you for the link I will have a look now. It would be great if they had an entry form I would be really grateful for you looking :)

Fiona, Well don't regarding foster :) hope he get his 8 points. And I hope you mom has added them up right! :D Would be really good to meet you at a show. Will talk to you on MSN soon

Sarah xxxx

Sarah - if still in doubt, contact Debs (Hobes mum) - she does the Irish circuit

Hi Sarah, I was at the show yesterday, but the entry forms for the august show will not be out of a while yet :(  getting in contact with the secretary may be the best thing, but I will still keep an eye out for those entry forms for you over the next few weeks,
Carol and Ollie :)

Ok thank you carol that would be great. :)

sarah xxxxx