Hi

I have ben considering getting my dog Identichipped for a while now but I have just been put off the idea as I recently read an article in doggy magazine which was all about the idea. Or even a 'dog tattoo' permanently stamped into his ear.

It said that it wasn't the most effective form of re-uiniting dog and owner and it was only the actual microchip that the dog owner owned and was registered to, there was no way of giving evidence that those details proved ownership of the dog they were implanted in!

As for the 'dog tatoos' it mentioned that these were not a solution as in many cases the dogs ears were lopped off to distroy the evidence.

Finaly the idea of a pet tag with a unique code and number which is added to the dogs collar and the person who finds the dog calls the helpline number on the collar quoting the code and the helpline then locates the owner and gives retrieval details of their dog. But again a collar can simply be discarded if the dog is stolen or lost if a dog escapes.

I am now again confused as to a good solution to the lost dog situation. As we have a lurcher I am concerned he needs such an identity as these dogs are well sought after in our area by thieves.

Thanks in advance

Guiness

:p

<As for the 'dog tatoos' it mentioned that these were not a solution as in many cases the dogs ears were lopped off to distroy the evidence.>

Oh dear yet another out & out lie about tattoos, Many dogs do not have their ears cut off to hide the fact they were tattooed, in fact just the opposite, thieves are actually put off by the tattoo as they can be read by anyone & you don't need a special scanner, just the two provided for free by natural. If the ear removal was true how come GSD puppies stolen from Davy & Joan Hall's kennels were returned within hours unharmed Much easier to remove a puppy's ear I would have thought than an adults.

Also to nullify a chip is quite easy jusy insert another one along side the original one then neither will read(proven), a chipped dog(a malamute I think) had been dyed & his ruff shorn off & an attempt to remove the chip physically had been made. Failing/moving chips have also caused a lot of problems with Pet Passport dogs, there was an article in Our Dogs recently in the 29th April issue about this

My dogs have ID tags & tattoos(all of which can be read including the GSD done over 10 years ago)

BTW the law on "found"property states permanently marked property must be returned to it's registered owner, Tattoos are permanent marks & chips are not marks, so chipped property does not have to be returned to the registered owners

Hello Moonmaiden

Thanks so much for your reply. It has given me more thought on the matter, to be honest I have put off having our dog microchipped since we got him from a rescue centre just under a year ago, simply as I dint quit agree with putting a foreign object in a healthy pup. The idea seemed good in principal and there continues to be a identichip frenzy on at the moment (in our area at least).

An question struck me as to why they dont use ultaviolet ink in these tatoos? But again to be identified one would need an additional piece of equipment.

How is this 'dog tattooing' actually done and where can I take our dog to have it done, where can I find out more info on it? The same question goes for these pet tags.

Thanks again

Guinness

:)

LOL the ink is vegetable based & to add anything like an ultraviolet agent could & probably would cause a bad reaction

The NDTR have tattooists all over the country & the site has a map that will lead you to the nearest one. The tattoo is the same as has been used in Pigs/goats etc for many years, a single action of a pair of forceps that have the number dies in them(different numbers for each dog) closed on the ear & then the ink rubbed in & kept dry & left for two weeks, by which time most of the excess will have come off in any case & it can be better just to leave the ear alone & not clean it unless necessary

You get a cert to prove ownership & a tag with the NDTR tel number on one side & the other blank for your use

Does it 'hurt' the dog or cause him to suffer until it is set (after 2 weeks)? What is the likeleyhood of an allergy tot he dye. I would rather not purposefully and knowingly put my dog through it if I suspect it would leave a negative experience.

Perhaps I should stick to a pet tag and collar and have everyone know the dog belongs to our house. Im not saying he constantly escapes, far from it as we have no enclosed garden as we live in a park home site, I am just fretting on him ever being stolen or getting lost if he ever escaped. Some of you may know of another thread where we are addressing recall problems!

Thanks, keep posting

Guinness

:)

My dogs are all tattooed, and only one chipped. All but one of them were tattooed at about 6 weeks old, and yes, they squealed while they were being firmly cuddled and their heads held still while the calipers were held on the ear, but they stopped immediately they were put back on the floor and went off to play with the others. :) Their mum was done at the same time as her first litter, and she sat still and wagged her tail while it was being done! :D

As soon as it was done they all seemed to forget about it straight away.
:)

Thanks Jg

Our Juppy as I call him as hes now 1 year 5 months has long ears that stick up (rather than floppy or droop). Ill look into it and if I am brave enough may go ahead with it! The dog is scared of many things but I think its my own fear of harming him thats getting in the way. No debates!

Thanks

Guinness

:D

All tattooists have a helper who holds the dogs not the owners & often the owner will disappear for a few seconds whilst the tattoo is done so they don't give anxious body language to the dog

There is little chance of a reaction & there isn't really isn't a lot too see except the ink, there are no scabs that occur in humans(the ink is the same but in a paste form to that used on humans for many 100's of years) & if the dog has prick ears the ink may stay in longer & can be moved with baby wipes or sim after 14 days, puppies done in the nest often lick each other ears & the tattoos never seem to suffer

It does not hurt the dog anymore than having your ears pierced I would think, probably less.  None of mine have squealed, got floppy eared dogs and prick eared dogs.

Personally would not have my dogs chipped as I don't want a foreign body put into theirs and anyway scanners do not always work neither do all chips.

Collars and tags sometimes come off, with a tattoo there can be no argument over ownership and ears are NOT cut off cos if they were what would be the value to the thief?

The only time this really happens is to greyhounds whose owners dispose of them illegally.

There was a case recently, of a cat, where it had strayed and been taken in by another family. When after something like 2 years the microchip was discovered a court ruled the cat had to be returned to its orginal owner BECAUSE of the chip being in their name -despite the new people having had it for longer.

I used to be all for tattoos and always had all my dogs done -I definitley think it is a visible deterrent. But I have to say I now have 5 dogs that are tattooed and only 2 of them have readable tattoos. :( So I've had all of them chipped to play safe and not bothered with more tattoos. I also found it cheaper with chips.

Marianne

That must have been an odd decision as the laws of found property certainly haven't changed as a tri athlete I know found to her cost after having her £5,000 bike stolen & knowing who had it & as it was chipped with Petlog(yes folks lots of the 1,000,000 plus "dogs"registered are not dogs at all)she thought she could get it back-wrong even the insurance company failed & had to replace the bike

My nearest neighbour had all his dogs & cats chipped(some 14 in all)less than two years ago, when the vet came out to some of his stock, he asked the vet just to check(having read that they move) only one was where it should have been, 5 were missing altogther & 3 not responding but could be felt. He has now had them all tattooed & yes they can all be read even the cats & the three spaniels & two GSDs with black skinned ears. BTW the cost of the chipping per animal was £25(he got £2 off for having 14 done)so they cost him £23 each, the tattooist came to him & did them for less

<when the vet came out to some of his stock, he asked the vet just to check(having read that they move) only one was where it should have been, 5 were missing altogther & 3 not responding but could be felt.>

These chips had obviously been implanted incorrectly. All our dogs (7) are chipped and the chips can all be read. Some of them have moved slightly, but can still be read okay. My wife is a trained microchipper and she has yet to find a chip that does not respond to the scanner. To have 5 missing and 3 not responding would make me suspect the scanner was faulty or imcompatible, not the chip itself.
My wife charges £10.00 per animal to implant a microchip, so it is a reasonable cost for permanent identification and is the only possibility if you wish to use the pet Passport scheme. Tattoos are not permitted for use with the scheme.

I cannot dispute you re a microchip not proving that the dog is owned by the person registered with Petlog, as I have never been in the unfortunate position of having a dog stolen. However, I think that microchipping is more than likely a proof of identification and the onus would be on the person who has stolen/aquired the dog to prove that they were the owner, rather than the person with the petlog registration.
Unless the tenet of UK law has changed drastically, the burden would be on the new 'owner' to prove that they own the dog even though there is documentry proof otherwise.

Snomaes

The vets I use charge £15 for microchipping, there are others in the area that charge £12.99, a dog training club here charges a tenner and personally I do my animals myself which works out at £7 per animal.... But I agree, the chips DO move -well at least they have done in my cats, never in the dogs. Thankfully it's never been a problem though. I would have preferred tattoos but like I said, have 3 dogs (done by 3 different tattoists) that can't be read at all. My ex husband has a dog (done by a fourth tattooist) whose tattoo cannot be read either, and my mother in law has another whose tattoo also can't be read so all that really got me disheartened.
Marianne

My oldest bitch's tattoo, which was done 10 years ago (she was the one done as an adult and sat and wagged her tail throughout) is still perfectly legible. Her daughter's has 'stretched' slightly as she's grown (she was done at 7 weeks) and the individual dots are quite far apart, but still legible. The later litter was done using the new-style caliper and nearly 6 years on is extremely clear.
:)

These chips had obviously been implanted incorrectly. All our dogs (7) are chipped and the chips can all be read. Some of them have moved slightly, but can still be read okay. My wife is a trained microchipper and she has yet to find a chip that does not respond to the scanner. To have 5 missing and 3 not responding would make me suspect the scanner was faulty or imcompatible, not the chip itself.

Er the vet has been chipping for ages & he did the dogs so how could the scanner not be compatible ? & why would some read & some not ? It has been proved that chips do fail not just in dogs but in non living items where they do not move, they are after all just a bit of electronics in a glass shell

As for the tattoos I had someone tell me their dogs had faded & they had had their dog chipped, after I cleaned three years of wax & muck off the ear flap there it was clear as a bell ! Doh the owner didn't realise that dogs ears can get dirty !

We found a dog in France a few years ago and the tattoo was unreadable. Fortunately the vet that we took the dog to knew the dog, as in France, stray dogs are much more likely to be PTS if handed in to the local authorities :(

Daisy

The die stamps used in France are totally different to the NDTR smaller die stamps & the UK ones definitely give a better tattoo, they were especially made for the NDTR & all their tattooist should be using them for ALL dogs/puppies/cats now

Thank goodness for that :) My daughter did work experience in a vets in France and was very upset at the obvious pain that the puppies experienced when being tattooed :(

Daisy

It takes seconds & some breeds don't even make a sound or much of a fuss The reason for using a helper is so the puppies don't pick up on their owners possible tensions

Well perhaps it was just this particular vet He still used ether for ops :(

Daisy

I am surprised about the ownership issue. I used to work in the security industry and a standard way of identifying things such as works of art that could not be 'damaged' was to insert a microchip in the wood supporting the canvas or to superglue it somewhere out of the way on a sculpture. This was standard practice a few years ago and some insurance companies stipulated it. A similar method is used hiding microdots on car parts.

Insurnace companies do not make or enforce the laws of property in the UK as far as I am aware & some even uphold people breaking the law by not reporting accidents involving uninsured drivers to the police for example

I do know that the bike was replaced but it was galling for the actual owner seeing someone else riding it in competion & not being able to prove it in law

I was just called last week, because one of the people in the village had found a dog wandering in the road. Being a dog trainer, you get called for anything doggie related! Anyway, dog had no tag, was very friendly and obviously distraught. It was a Sunday, so on Monday I reported him to the police and the dog warden was going to pop by with the microchip reader to see if there was one implanted. Thankfully, the owner reported him to the police and was re-united. The dog did have a tag, but obviously lost it as he was wandering all night trying to find his way back home (the owners lived over 5 miles away).

Anyway, I suggested they got him microchipped to ensure that if it happened next time, they would be able to tell straight away where he belonged. They did that the same day and called me in the evening thanking me for getting them re-united and that they got him micro-chipped that same day. I was delighted to hear this, as I know that I would be desperate if ever I lost my dog, but at least with a tag and a microchip, then his chances of getting re-united would be greatly increased.

So, my advice is to get him microchipped. Yes, some things fail, but you would just need to ask your vet to scan it when you get the dog's yearly checkup done. It really is worth it.

The chances of your dog getting lost during its lifetime is probably greater than it being stolen and you can at least rest assured that you did everything to give him a chance to find his home again.