a few days ago we noticed that our 11 month old lab is limping from time to time on her back left leg.  It is more noticeable in the evenings after she has been lying down but when she gets up and walks around she seems to be stiff when she walks.  She is not showing any symptoms of discomfort but I plan to take her to the vet tomorrow.  She is due to be hip scored next month and I am scared now and paranoid that there is a hip problem beginning to show.  Could this be the case.  Ever since we got her at 6 weeks of age I have been following the 5 minute rule, she is not allowed to go up stairs to chase balls to run to far etc etc I am so worried how can she have a hip problem if this is the case when we have been so careful with her.
What should I do if this is the case?  Could there be another reason why her leg is stiff and she is limping from time to time.

Hi,
My Lab puppy showed the same symptoms at 7 months of age, especially if that day he had, had a mad blast in the garden.
I took him to the vets who thought he had just pulled something.  As he was insured the vet said he would x-ray and as I said I was paronoid about hips he said he would x-ray them as well but was sure it wasn't hips as he had come from very low scored parents.
However the x=ray revealed bad hip dysplasia in both hips although one was slightly worse than the other.
I hope this is not the outcome in your case and remember there are lots of things that can cause that limp, so try and stay positive and not worry too much until you know for certain.
Limiting exercise didn't help me either I am afraid and 2 people locally with older labs bought off people who had never hipscored thier pets just bred from them and who had then walked miles to tire them out from young puppies have never had a problem.   One of these labs is now 13 and still leaps in the air and runs round happily.
Makes you wonder doesn't it if its just the luck of the draw and a few people I have met have said building up the muscles at a young age with plenty of walking helps as it will hold the hips in place if there is a problem.
I am not sure but seems round here the healthy ones are these ones.

Hi bevb
I am sorry to hear about your lab puppy it must have been very distressing for you to learn about his hip dysplasia.  I am taking mine to the vet this afternoon and just praying that all it is is a pulled muscle.  I just don't understand this whole exercise thing.  I have been so careful as were you and yet look what can happen.  Yet also I have met lots of lab owners and ex lab owners who don't even know about the 5 min rule and the dogs are all full of the joys of spring!
oh well I will have to see what happens.
Thank you for your lovely email though.
Best wishes
Van

Hope all goes well at the vets and it turns out to be something simple.  Will be thinking of you, please let me know how you get on.

bev

Hi Goat.....all you can do is have her x-rayed its possible she just strained her leg or they can tear an ACL..if she does have dysplasia its not your fault... excersise does not cause dysplasia,,there are no known enviromental factors that cause hip dysplasia..its a genetic disease

anyway hd is not the end of the world! best you know then you can act accordingly. i MADE my vets xray flynn at 8months as i KNEW something wasnt right. it wasnt & sprang into immediate action! i had him xrayed & scored at 12 months.swimming & controlled exercise can make all the differance but you need to KNOW!

Environmental factors can exacerbate an existing condition though ...

Hi
I have just got back from the vet.
He did all the various tests, flexing her hips, testing reflexes etc he couldn't seem to find anything wrong and thinks perhaps that it is a sprain/strain.  He prescribed some anti inflammatories so I will try her on them and see what happens.  However, at a year old (end of month) I will have her hip scored and see then how she is doing also.
Kellymcoy if exercise does not bring on hd could it not exacerbate a pre-existing condition ie if you dog has hd and you don't know, wouldn't too much exercise bring it on eventually?

Hip dysplasia is though to be about 40% genetic, the rest being environmental factors like diet and excercise.  Experiments have proven that genetically dysplastic dogs can be prevented from developing HD by enforcing very controlled condition including colostrum deprivation.

Not sure if there is enough research to prove the opposite applies ie HD can be induced in genetically clear dogs but I would think it would have some influence.

Not to say the OP is to blame in any way.  To enforce the conditions to prevent HD symtoms would not be to the benefit of the dog in other ways and would have to start at birth.

Julie

I would love to know where you get your info as all the articles on HD I have read show that the heredity is about 30 to 40% and the rest (majority) is environmental.

If it were simp;y genetic then we would be far closer to reducing or eliminating it.

You would also not get dysplastics from long lines of good scoring ancestors and zero scores from ones that are not that good, or in the smae litter.

This is why breeders and expereinced owners in the breeds with a high incidence of HD prefer to err on the side of caution re over excersise weight etc, sue to the environmental factors.

Of course if the dog is destined to have HD being careful witll hopefully lessen the effects, whereas over excersie getting a pup fat etc will make things worse.

Also a paior of hips that would ahve been perfect may become less so, but still perfectly good if care isn't taken.

It is generally considered that hip dysplasia is a quantitative inherited disease with moderate heritability.  This means that hip dysplasia is strictly an inherited disease but environmental factors can modify the expression of the disease.  There has not been scientifically documented a single environmental factor that causes or prevents hip dysplasia. 



Thank you for your inquiry.





G.G. Keller, D.V.M., MS

Diplomate ACVR

Chief of Veterinary Services

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kellytoonces@aol.com [mailto:Kellytoonces@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:57 AM
To: OFA
Subject: attn Dr Keller



Hi Dr.Keller....what do you say to people who claim hip dysplasia has low heritability and is enviromental??

I don't know who GG Keller is but he/she seem to be agreeing with published data which states that HD is ~40% inherited with the rest environmental.  Thanks for posting Kelly.

Julie

HI Julie,,,Dr Keller is the head of OFa..they are saying its SRTICTLY INHERITED.if they do not inherit the gene you cannot give them the disease.but if the do inherit the gene enviroment can affect the outcome..the fact that dogs can have bilateral or unilateral dysplasia and breeds have a prediliction toward side .. labradors predominantly have unilateral left

Can environment or food cause hip dysplasia?
No, hip dysplasia is a multiple gene, inherited disease. Environmental factors, like high caloric diet during the rapid growth phase, may exacerbate changes in dysplastic hips but will not create hip dysplasia. There also is no evidence in the scientific literature that supplements (i.e Vitamin C) will prevent hip dysplasia. Reduced caloric intake and glucosamine products in immature animals genetically predisposed for hip dysplasia may lessen the pathologic changes associated with hip dysplasia.

Which seems to be pretty much what people on here have been saying! Any hips which aren't perfect (0:0) have a degree of dysplasia. As very few dogs (or people for that matter) have perfect hips it seems clear that environmental factors are very important in keeping the degree of dysplasia to a minimum.
:)

what percentage of dogs are 0/0??? OFa has a 95 percent confidence rate .studies show that dog rate good or excellent show NO changes when rexrayed later in life..it seems as though you are saying almost all dogs have dysplasia and i don't think thats true..if all dogs that have more than 0/0 have a degree of dysplasia thats alot of dogs

even o/o scored dogs have been known to produce high scores!!!!

There have been examples in almost all breeds with perfect scores - anything other than perfect is, by definition, mildly dysplastic. So yes, almost all dogs have dysplasia to a greater or lesser degree.

However it varies as to how the degree of dysplasia affects the individual's quality of life - obviously the lower the score the better. But there's more to a dog than a pair of hips, and even dogs with 0:0 scores can produce affected offspring!
:)

i'm wondering what percentage of dogs are 0/0 and what percentage of breeedings are from both parents 0/0 ...do you have any liturature from your BVA stating that anything less than 0/0 is dysplastic?? hence making most breedings done in the UK between two dysplastic parents..we only breed dogs with no evidence of dysplasia

Kelly, dysplasia means abnormal development of part of the anatomy. It's a definition. Perfect hips are very rare - anything other than perfect (even hips which are 0:1) has a degree of dysplasia. Most breeding throughout the entire world is between animals with a degree of HD, as even OFA's category of 'Good' is less than perfect.
:)

>>we only breed dogs with no evidence of dysplasia >>

I don't think this is a wise route to follow in breeds where HD is an issue.  If so you are disregarding the evidence that states that HD is mostly environmental.  You will be excluding from your breed, dogs that have the potential to be hip improvers at the same time reducing the gene pool and so increasing the risk of other diseases. 

HD is a polygenic condition of continuous variation and because it is multifactorial, a dog considered to be unaffected could carry more of the genes than one moderately affected. 

To quote the great Malcolm Willis PhD "A dog is more than a set of hips"  :-)

I'm sorry Kelly that is not true.  OFA rate Hips:

Excellent = to UK score up to 4 (with no more than 3 scored per hip).
Good = To UK score of 5 up to 10 (with no more than 6 per hip).
Fair = to UK score 11 up to 18 (No extremes).
Borderline = to UK scores 19 up to 25.
Mild dysplasia = to UK score 26 to 35.
Moderate Dysplasia = to UK scores of 36-50.
Severe Dysplasia = to UK scores of 51 to 106.

I own an American bred dog and the OFA ratings in his pedigree are Excellents, Good and Fair.

In some breeds there are very few dogs in the better categories and breeders mayu even be forced to use those animals that would rate borderline, but all the time aiming to improve, which it has been shown if you analyse the score results by deade or generation things are improving in those breeds where hips are a real problem.

as has been said you cannot breed for hips alone, as you would restrict the gene pool so much that yopu would be faced with untypical dogs with lost of other genetic health problems from be3ing so restricted.

Dogs that rate good are up to UK 10, still not 0/0.  I would think that zero hips are rare in most breeds. 

I think since scoring started in the Uk of the nearly 500 individuals scored in my breed I beleivee there have been only two 0/0 scores.

Most of ours score in tyhe OFA Good or Fair range, but we have had very few clinical cases of Hip dysplasia.

i asked Dr Keller if all dogs with hips over 0/0 had some degree of dysplasia here was the reply                                                  Hip scores over 0/0 had some degree of dysplasia..... is not correct.



Thank you for your inquiry.



G.G. Keller, D.V.M., MS

Diplomate ACVR

Chief of Veterinary Services

He may be a medical man but I'm afraid he doesn't understand English!

You can get a perfect hip-score (0:0). Anything other than that has a degree of imperfection - ie dysplasia. The problem then is to decide what degree of imperfection is acceptable.
:)

Maybe he means clinical dysplasia as per OFA ratings which would be dogs over UK total of 26????

That would indeed be a very bad score in most breeds, Brainless. Saying that, it's better than the BMS for Bullmastiffs and Newfoundlands, for example.

That would, indeed, be a poor score to be considering a dog for breeding but don't forget the scores suitable for breeding should be much lower that where you would expect to see clinical dysplasia.

Yep in most breeds you wouldn't even be considering the borderline 16 to 25 scoring, but those in the Exc, Goog and Fair categories are regularly used in most breeds.

Kelly

>> Hip scores over 0/0 had some degree of dysplasia..... is not correct.>>

I find it hard to believe an orthopaedic specialist would write this.  Are you sure...is there anything else?  Could you post the whole letter with your question please.

Julie

Avoiding the debate on HD I just wanted to share my experience.  Bali my 13 mth old rottie started to 'tip toe' when I was standing him (showing) and I was unable to get any kind of extension he would much rather pull his leg in?  Then after he was lying down when he got up he would limp, I asked a friend for advise and she suspected it was a crutial ligament problem (sorry for SP) and my vet confirmed this, after seeing a specialist he also confirmed that one of the ligaments had totally snapped/torn and the best option (considering I show him and for best results in the long run) would be to operate.  He is booked in next Monday and I am so glad I decide to do the op as the situation has got worse in 2 weeks, therefore leaving it would be unfair!  May be worth asking your vet to check your labs knee's too, just in case - Bali never even appeared to have a problem other wise.

Unfortunately the cases of ruptured crucial ligaments in Labradors seem to be highly increasing. Whether it is caused by genetic factors or simply by too "heavy a frame" is still a mystery.

Some of the dogs develop only mild symptoms - occasional limping - and vets are often at loss with the correct diagnose.

When she is x rayed for her hips, (which is only a couple of weeks away I expect), ask them to take another plate to check for problems in the left hock area. It will be better for her to only have one x ray session and cheaper for you too, and you will have the result for that plate that day. You could arrange with them that if they find she needs surgery, they may be able to do it while she is under for the x ray.

Pre-arrange it if poss, that the vet that does surgery like c.l. repair in your practise is on duty and available that day. In my practise the surgeons do specialise; ie one vet will do "ortho" ops  and another vet specialises in other sorts of ops.  The one that does hip scoring may be a different vet to the vet that normally does ortho ops.

   hi Julie  here the whole e-mail........................Hi DR Keller...you were right about the ''colon cancer'' patient.after my alarmist phone call she convinced them to open the dog up only to discover the ''cancer'' was the stuffing and material from stuffed toys.they had to remove ten inches of bowel but hopefully he will recover..also i had someone from england tell me that all dogs over there with hip scores over 0/0 had some degree of dysplasia..is this true?? i find it hard to believe....                                                                                                                                               just because a dog does not have perfect hip joint conformation does not mean it has the disease dysplasia...i suggest you e-mail Dr Keller yourself i will abide by whateve he says  www.offa.org

I think Julie meant the whole email reply from Dr Keller, not just the email you sent him/her! ;)

that was the reply

Hip scores over 0/0 had some degree of dysplasia..... is not correct.



Thank you for your inquiry.



G.G. Keller, D.V.M., MS

Diplomate ACVR

Chief of Veterinary Services



ggk/cas



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kellytoonces

But that isn't grammatical English!

I have a copy of 'Veterinary Notes for Dog Owners' in front of me, and in the section on Hip Dysplasia it says that, in general, dogs with a score of 8 or less, although not having normal hips, are considered acceptable for breeding. The OFA's 'Good' category includes dogs with a higher score than this, doesn't it?

HI Jeangenie..i sent him another e-mail..i'll post the reply....but the reason OFA has the 95 pecent confidence rating is because when xrayed later in life dogs with OFA numbers did not show any change in the joint .it says right on the cert. no evidence of dysplaia was recognized..not 'slight evidence of dysplasia' of the 5 percent that did show changes the majority of them were fair....so ''OFA good is not dysplastic......people should realize there are almost 200.000 labs with OFA numbers with 20 percent excellent.and only 12 percent dysplastic

Looking at the latest KC/BVA list (dated 10 January 05), there had been been 49,615 labradors scored, with a range of 0 (perfect) - 106 (the worst score possible). The BMS (average) score is 15, with the Median (most common) score being 10. The panel recommends that breeders should choose stock with scores WELL BELOW (their capitals) the BMS.

It's important to remember that perfection is very rare, so you have to decide what degree of imperfection is acceptable. Also, that a dog with perfect 0:0 hips would be no good for breeding if it had a bad temperament, or epilepsy, or PRA ...

I think again there is some misunderstanding between radiographically  perfect hips and dogs that may become clinically affected by dysplasia.

The score a dog wouldahve to show clinical signs of disease also vary from breed to breed.  We have had very few really high scores in our breed that would rate severe dysplasia in OFA grading.  One has recently cropped up and that bitch with a score over 50 has excellent movement.  I know the person who bred are highest UK score of 61 and this bitch had por movement and arthritis as she saged, but never needed surgery.

In other breeds you may see clinical signs at much lower scores based on their size and conformation, angulation etc.

My champion bitch is acknowledged as being a super mover, and her score is 14, above the breed mean and median, but would rate Fair under OFA classification.

Very true. There seems to be no particular score at which it can be said that a dog will suffer pain or discomfort from its hips. Two dogs of the same breed with same score can result in one suffering pain and limited movement at an early age and the other being fully active into old age. It seems clear that there's more to the disease of HD than just the hipscore.

Deciding what level of abnormality is acceptable is very subjective and certainly not an exact science.
:)

Well said Jeangenie and I totally agree that hip scoring is not certainly an exact science.

A dog with a high hip score may never suffer any pain if he is kept within normal weight (not show appearance)  and also has his hind legs surrounded by well developed muscles.

High scoring elbows are much more crippling than hips.

I think this is why our breed rarely has problems.  They are moderately angulated not too heavy (well if not overfed) and very musucular and cobby if excersised normally.

On the OFA web page under "Hip Dysplasia" go to "How are hips graded" (http://www.offa.org/hipgrade.html)



Toward the bottom of this page is an approximation of OFA with BVA scores (copied below)



Hope this helps.



G.G. Keller, D.V.M., MS

Diplomate ACVR

Chief of Veterinary Services



ggk/cas.



Other Hip Dysplasia Registries--A Comparison

OFA
FCI (European)
BVA (UK/Australia)
SV (Germany)

E
A-1
0-4 (no > 3/hip)
Normal

G
A-2
5-10 (no > 6/hip)
Normal

F
B-1
11-18
Normal

B
B-2
19-25
Fast Normal

M
C
26-35
Noch Zugelassen

Mod
D
36-50
Mittlere

S
E
51-106
Schwere






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kellytoonces@aol.com [mailto:Kellytoonces@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:28 AM
To: OFA
Subject: Re: attn Dr Keller

this did not copy well...whoops...i am shocked that there are less than 50 thousand labs with hip scores ..hip dysplasia is a progressive disease so if a dog has this disease when rexrayed later in life it would show djd and arthritic changes and that is not the case with dogs with OFA numbers if all dogs with hip scores over 0/0 had dysplasia they would all score much higher if/when they were rexrayed..

So it seems that, comparing the two systems, a labrador with OFA Grade 'F' would be considered a bit dodgy, because it's recommended that only animals with a total score of under the BMS (in the case of labradors, 15) should be bred from without very careful thought.
:)

It is as we have been saying there is a difference between perfection 0/0 and normal in the sense of not causing signs of disease.  If it were not so then they wouldn't bother with distinguishing between Excellent, Good Fair, Borderline and the 3 classes of dysplastic in OFA or other Hip Sevaluation systems.  All of them show up to BVA score as Normal.

I do prefer out numeric score as you know where the dog is scoring and how much exactly and not just in a band.  In otherwords is that Good result nearly an Excellent or almost a Fair.  Is that Fair evaluation just over Good or almost to the Borderline class?

I have had littermates scored who had a score almost identical in all parts (one point out on one of the feeatures) interestingly one a bitch was scored in Australia at a year old scored 7, and her brother wasn't scored until nearly 6 years old and he was pne point higher with Total score of 8.

I was a little disappointed with my youngest bitches score of 15 as her brother had scored 9 and sire was 6, but Mum was 14 from two parents scoring 12 and grandparents same, so a point higher than the dam isn't so unexpected.

Absolutely, Brainless. Imperfection is normal ... What matters is where the degree of imperfection affects the animal's quality of life.
:)

i eangenie...yes you are right about fair labradors..its not considered kosher to use a fair labrador in this country since they make up only 11percent of the xrayed population and there almost double the rate of dogs with excellent hips[close to 30,000excellents] in a database study of 77.000 labradors with known sire and dam hip scores excellent to excellent produced dysplasia at nearly half the rate of good to good and a third of what fair to fair produced

On the other hand I had my vets receptionist look at me quite askance today when I mentioned that I would be breeding from Lexi with her score of 15.  Surely she said you should not be as the advice not that came says you should breed from those who score well below the breed mean score, which is 13 or 14 (seems to change from year to year).

Now a score of 15 is a perfectly respectable score and in a bred like ours where we don't ahve a HD problem (but don't have many really low scores either) hips need to be kept an eye on but the range of scores normally achieved are mostly within the OFA and International normal ranges.

How shortsighted it would be to remove excellent examples of the breed for such a level of imperfection.