Hi,

Just wondering if everyone is happy with the way their pensions are going?

It seems to me its almost cost of another morgugage just give you a very basic pension.
I'm getting slightly nervous and im in my 30's .

What does evryone else think and what happens to all those who can't afford to start saving for a pension does the Government help them?

Briony

I have a rather jaded view of pensions now :) Hubby had an excellent pension due with the company that he worked for - but he was made redundant after over 20 years and ended up with no pension. I have a small pension from when I worked before I had the children and will get my own state pension. However, I have not 'invested' in another pension and am just saving hard, as most new pensions now seem to be fairly risky at the moment :( I'm not sure what I would do if I was starting over again - but I'm sure that I will probably advise my kids to get a pension as you just can't see that far into the future. Things will never get as good as they were - my B-I-L retired 10 years ago at 50 with half pay for life :)

Daisy

Having taken time out from working to raise my son there's now no way I'll get any sort of pension of my own, so I'll only get a share of hubby's when he retires. Having looked at all the options very carefully, I genuinely think the best thing to do now is to save in an ISA till you're 50 then start putting spare cash into a shoebox under the bed as well so that you have some money to spend how you choose (because your pension money must be invested to provide an annuity, and if you die before you've had it all you lose it).

It stinks.

Yup ;)

Daisy

hI,

but what about those who pick up working family tax they are not allowed ISA's or savings over £3000.So what happens if these families cannot afford to put into a pension each month and the government is thinking of scrapping the state pension?Seems to me you work all your life and you very little to show for it.Do you still have to sell your home to pay for your care or is that being reviewed at moment?

Briony

As far as I know, if you need care in your old age, and own your own property, that'll have to be sold to pay for it. Last I heard you can only get free care if your assets come to less than £8000.

Hi,

Something to look forward to then.

Briony

I only have a pension because my work pay into it for me, otherwise I wouldnt bother.  All of my cash at the moment is going on my mortgage and on doing up my house, when I finally get some spare cash I will save into an ISA or similar so when the time comes I can buy an annuity.  I dont personally think pensions are worth anything, and they certainly wont when I retire (im 27).

edit to say : my Gran had to give most of her assets to us in the form of a gift of premium bonds just so she could get free care.  We also got massive christmas and birthday presents so at least we got some of her money and it wasnt all eaten up in her care, (she had altzeimers and parkinsons) how sad is that :(  My nan is currently giving us her money everytime she gets to a certain amount otherwise her rent on her council house will go up

Hi,

Its disgusting isnt it :-(

With 5 children we cant save as much as we like .

Briony

So what is everyone going to do if they dont have a pension plan ,can't afford to save because of family commitments now?

Briony

Who knows :( They are already increasing the age at which women get the State pension - I'll be one of the first women who have to wait until they are 65 before getting it (I have no objection to men and women being equal hto' :D ). How long will it be before there is no pension before 70 ? The problem is that we are living longer and there aren't enough people working to support those on pensions. Unlike current day personal pensions where 'your' contributions are saved in 'your' pot - the current generation of workers are paying the state pension of todays pensioners. How this system will change over the next 20/30 years, no-one knows.

Daisy

My mother, F-I-L and aunt all need care (90, 90 and almost 100). All three have had to sell their homes and pay for their care. They've not had extravagant lifestyles and have worked hard for what they have. Their total fees probably come to around £75000 a year. Perhaps they should have spent all their money and then scrounged off the state :(

Daisy

This seems to be opinion of most people i've spoken to.

I think its awful you are forced to sell your home to pay for your care it worries the hell out of me :-(

What does the government really do?

Briony

It's a big problem. The only way to be certain of getting a pension in the future is to arrange your own - or save like mad :(

Daisy

Briony where did you get information that those who receive working tax credit can't have ISA's or savings???  I don't think that is right.  WFTC is based on earnings but there is nothing to say you can't have savings.  The INCOME from savings is taken into account of course but NOT the capital.

Having recently just had the option to join a company pension, I have decided that I am better off paying off what I owe NOW rather than saving money I can't afford for a future I don't know what will happen in.  If I had extra money, I would save for my future but as a single parent, I can only cope with the here and now. 

Hi,

On the form it actually says do you have more than £3ooo in saving or your children.

Briony

But they only take the interest into account and NOT the capital.

Have a look at the IRS's WTC2 advise leaflet on this link re capital

Hi,

I think there is alot more people out there that dont have pensions because they cant afford one through no fault of their own and like you say have to live here and now .

Briony

Oh right,doesnt say that.

Briony

But at what cost of saving like mad?

Do you miss out things with a young growing family and save all this money for when you get old and hope you dont die before you get to enjoy itor still able to enjoy it with the grand children,

Briony

A lot depends on your circumstances and point of view :) IMO saving is always worth it (I couldn't sleep at night if I didn't have a nest egg for a rainy day) :) Trouble is that the people who do save end up having to pay for themselves and the people who don't save are funded by the people who do :( (Some people just haven't got the money to save, so these comments don't apply to them :) )

Daisy

Oh, definitely have savings! A couple of years ago my husband's firm had 'cash-flow problems' and he wasn't paid at all for 4 months, and then only half-pay for three more. He's still owed over £2500 from then - if we hadn't had savings to fall back on we'd never have managed, because the state couldn't help - he was still in employment after all - and the union did nothing to help.

When my husband was made redundant (and I wasn't working - or claiming any benefits either) we were told that no benefits - unemployment or any of them - were payable if we had savings over a certain level. Not the income - the capital was all counted - even children's savings accounts.

<As far as I know, if you need care in your old age, and own your own property, that'll have to be sold to pay for it. Last I heard you can only get free care if your assets come to less than £8000.>

It has been the rule for over 40 years that if someone owns their own home & they have to go into Residential or Nursing Care Homes & live alone without a partner/carer that the home has to be be sold to fund the care.

The current  levels for receiving some local authority funding are savings(or capital or property)£20,000 & an income under the fees that Social Services will pay

this link might be of interest

The rules are totally different from England to Scotland.

What if you die before your spend all the cash in the shoebox, JG ;)
I seem to think of it differently to the majority posting here :).  I think we accumulate our wealth to pay for our needs in old age not to leave to others.  You only have to sell your house to pay for care if you move out of it, into a home for instance, and that seems fair enough to me.  I don't think they will ever do away with a state pension of some description for those who really have been unable to save due to low wages for instance.  I find it a bit strange that people avoid claiming other benefits throughout their lives as a matter of pride but they don't seem to what to spend their own money when they are old.  Would we not all be a little stunned if someone said they gave away all their excess money to relatives so they could collect more in the way of unemployment benefit, for instance.

What benefits are you suggesting that they could have claimed ??? People who have worked all their lives can't (couldn't)claim benefits. The problem is that a whole generation of people believed in saving. No matter how much I tried to persuade my mother to get herself new saucepans and not use those that had belonged to HER mother - and to have a new kitchen, a new bathroom - to take a holiday etc etc etc. Neither of my parents had ever claimed any benefits, other than the state pension. They saved in the belief that they could leave some money to their children. Now I don't mind not getting any money - but what I do mind is that they are subsidising the people that have never saved and spent everypenny :)

Daisy

I'm not sure what you are asking me Daisy.  People who have worked all their lives can claim benefits when they retire if they don't have large savings because they never earned much more than a living wage.  I'm talking about people who don't need to because they do have assets but think it OK to give it away and claim off the state.  I think it is selfish as although their relatives benefit everyone else still working is contributing to their care.

But the people who can claim benefits are the people who haven't got any money to give to relatives anyway :) As someone on here put it - if you are poor, the state looks after you; if you are rich, you can look after your self; if you have saved perhaps and so are not poor, no-one helps you. The system really does encourage people to spend, spend, spend not save, save save :)

Daisy

I think you are missing my point, Daisy.  During your working life you can dodge work, save nothing and claim off the system but no-one will admire you for it and indeed most people will say they have too much pride to do such a thing.  When we get to retirement age I find it strange that someone would consider it no longer a matter of pride to provide for yourself.  Consider it this way do you think it would be OK for your Gran to give you all her savings and then let me and others pay for her care or do you think she should pay as long as she is able and when her savings reach £20,000 (still a nice little sum to pass on to her relatives to cover funeral expenses etc) we all step in and support her care?

I quite agree with you, Isabel :) I have nothing against people that have had a tough life and have not had a chance to save or provide for themselves in other ways, being supported by the state. What annoys me is people who DO have money and who spend it all on holidays, new cars, clothes etc etc and then they get to old age and expect others to support them :( That's what wrankles :( So we agree :) It is actually getting more difficult to 'give' money away now in order to avoid paying care charges. Once upon a time people could put their house in trust for the children - but not any more.

Daisy

I think most people expect holidays and cars if they can be afforded :), so long as a commenserate rate of saving or pension planning is going on as well I don't see why life can't be enjoyed ;)  The more difficult it becomes to 'give' funds away instead of paying for your own care the better as far as I'm concerned although I suppose there will always be a few sly ones :)

There are people who do give away their money & think they will be funded by the Local Authority & families that encourage them to do so

I met a 100 year old woman(will not call her a lady as she wasn't) who needed 24/7 care because of a physical disability(her brain was razer sharp), she had given away £300,000 to her children & G children etc so that she had no money to pay for her care & expected the Local Authority to "f**king well pay for her"She owned a home worth £500.000 & was in the process of giving that to her newly born GGGrand son so that it would be not taken into account & she had instructed her solicitor to do so against her(the solicitors) advice ! She was nasty & rude to the home staff & when I tried to explain that the Council etc could not help she tried to hit me with a walking stick & threw a glass at me which broke against the wall behind me, the home eventually had to evict her & never got any money for her three month stay

There's a link here re stakeholder pensions for people on low incomes

If I was younger I do'nt think I would bother with saving for a pension but put the money into property. If you use your pension money to get a second mortgage then you would have rental income as a guaranteed 'pension' plus the capital value of the house when you eventually decided to sell. Seems a much better bet than any of the current pension schemes.

I am in the fortunate position of having a good public sector pension (teachers) and when I decide to retire we'll sell up and 'downsize' either to France or some other part of Europe. We reckon that the equity from the house should enable us to buy a small place outright and fund retirement at 55 until my teachers pension kicks in - one of the few benefits of the massive difference in property prices :D.

Yvonne

I've worked full time for almost 40 years without a break and am hoping to retire within the next few years.  The jobs I've had have all been in the public service field so have all operated a contributory pension scheme.  Hence I've always thought I'd be OK.  But, working out the figures recently, I was surprised at how little the final amount will be.  I suppose you get used to a certain standard of living and you have to be prepared to take a drop when you're no longer working.  A case of cutting your cloth accordingly....
But the good Lord hasn't let me down yet so I reckon I'll just go on trusting him to supply all my needs, if not all my wants :)

That is what I have done Trevor I have not occupational pension to speak of, I did well with share based investments but fortunately moved it all into property at the right time :)  I doubt in my dotage I would want to run it as a rental property but I intend selling it in order to buy a pension annuity the same as you would if you had saved in an official pension plan.  Only draw back is I have to pay 40% CG tax on the profit :( but even at that in the last few years it will show a better return than shares based savings and I am hoping that one day they will allow second properties to form part of a personal pension plan with consequent tax concessions :)

>What if you die before your spend all the cash in the shoebox, JG

Aha! You can leave it to your kids/partner/whoever you trust not to bump you off to get it! ;) I was told left-over pension plan money is now the property of the Government.

The tragic point about having to sell your home to pay for care is when one partner needs fulltime medical care (Altzheimers, for instance) but the other partner is still well - so not only are they separated but their family home has to go and the 'fit' partner move somewhere cheaper, away from all things familiar ... :(

I've always thought that a home doesn't have to be sold whilst the spouse is still living there.  Is this not now the case ?

This is a very emotive subject for me at the moment:  I am retiring in 39 days

I am in the position of having a state pension of £1.49 per week - such largess!!!   This is because I have paid the Married Woman's reduced rate stamp, and am therefore only entitled to a pension on that bit of my earnings before I married - some 42 years ago.   The reason I continued to pay this reduced rate stamp was because my OH had just come off salary, onto invalidity benefit, after a serious accident, and the only way we could afford to live - with 2 teenagers and 2 youngsters, was for me to have as much money coming in as possible!  Eventually OH was able to work again - but on a much-lower income scale than before - and I paid into a private insurance plan (company plan was not for "married women").   This was doing quite well - until the stock market crash of 2000, and in fact the pension that I was quoted as being able to receive at 60 (2 years ago) - in 2003, was almost half that which I had been quoted in 1997 for an early retirement age of 55!  Needless to say, I stopped contributing to it them!  Having worked for another couple of years, it has gone up, but our income will be about 40% of what it is now.   Apart from losing fares & parking, our bills aren't going to reduce by that amount :(

So, although I'm looking forward to not having the daily trek to London, I'm rather apprehensive about our standard of living - we're not extravagent, but I don't really know how we'll cope until it comes to it!!!

I may yet be down at Asda, stacking shelves.....

Margot

To be honest I think there is alot of worried people out there especially those of us in our 30's .Are these pension plans following track?

Is there going to be an old age pension? many say not in 30 years .
So if you have any savings at all i can see the Governmentnot helping you at all because you have some savings but not enough to live off catch 22.

So is everyone living for now or what?

Briony

<So if you have any savings at all i can see the Government not helping you at all because you have some savings but not enough to live off catch 22.>

Actually this government via Pensioner tax credits does just that there is an addition that is based on savings as opposed to a deduction for savings under the previous benefit(Income Support)paid to pensioners

To be honest I would not want to be 30 again now

>kids/partner/whoever you trust not to bump you off to get it!

I'll alert the police if you suddenly stop posting :D
I sure tyby is right the partner does not have to sell unless they also go into care.

It would be their choice to sell their home as partners who do not need care do not & never have had to sell the home. I have in the past dealt with many cases of this type & no matter what anyone else may say they do not have to sell their home

I think that the thing is to look at it as a part of your overall savings. A pension by itself is not really enough. You also need some invested in property, ISAs, building societies etc. That way the risk is spread so if property prices fall at the time you need money you have some alternatives.

I know that it is always difficult to find money to put away, but that will never change, it just needs to become a habit that you put away even a few pounds each week or month. Yes if you are on benifits this is an issue, but I firmly believe that benifits should be viewed as a short term option for the vast majority of people. Not least because in the next 20 years the only way the country will get its books to balanced is to drastically reduce entitlement to any state support.

The thing that really galls me is that I have to pay 2% of my total pension fund each year to have some one 'manage' my fund, which at present has nothing going in to due to starting my own business and not currently having an income.

It's like everything else in this country. If your poor you get looked after, if your rich you don't need looking after but if your in the middle - tough!!! We bought our first house last year after saving like crazy for the deposit etc... We bought an ex council house from some one who had bought it from the council after they were going "cheap". They moved on to a bigger better house with the huge profit they had made selling there council home to us. Good luck to them, just wish I'd get lucky like that one day!

I am self employed and pay into a private pension. Can't afford to pay much but at least it is something. Probably will be worthless when I retire, now there's a cheery thought!!

The one that really made me laugh was trying to persuade me to pay full NI stamp, cost was I think £7 per week, which I think worked out at about 7p difference on my state pension over each 12 month period.  The civil servant was not very inpressed when I told them I thought it was a bit of an no brainer!

Just think the one that we are paying into now with our National INsurance will be non-existant by the time most of us reach the age to get back what we paid in.  Also if you are reaching retirement age don't save your money get what you want.  My mum and dad have saved and not thrown away their money so due to this they are not allowed any money that is supposed to help pensioners, because they've been to good with their money and left it in a bank account.

Seems to me, that the more that you don't work, don't care about where your money goes then the better you are looked after in this country!!

Oh yes - I forgot that bit - if I paid a total of £17,865, I could get a pension of £48. per week!!!  (As I didn't have enough small change in my pocket, I didn't bother :D :D :D )

Margot

17,865, giving you a pension of £48 a week if you lived longer that 7 years you would have seen the benefit ..:-))