i have a german shep (bitch) And a black lab (male) and they have mated (this wasnt supposed to happen) to be honest i havent got a clue what to do when she is in labour and what to do after the puppy's are born! i have had her scanned and the vet told me she is having 6! (oh my god)
If any one can give me any hints and tips i would be very greatful! And how much cross breed puppy's go for (both the dogs are pedigree, if that makes any diffrence)!
she also dont really show that she is pregnant but she has 3 weeks to go!

Thanks

id have the dog castrated yesterday!!! then you wont have anymore accidents,, the fact that hes now been mated you'll probably find hed start scent marking all over the house etc---as for how much can you charge for mongrel pups, you'll probably struggle to find homes for them, maybe even lucky if you can give them away, theres loads of dogs homeless in shelters, the most of them are crossbreeds,
someone suggested on another board having the bitch speyed and the pups pts , it might be worth thinking about, theres really not a lot of people looking for crosses. its hard enough getting GOOD homes for well bred and reared pedigree dogs,
it may sound cruel at first but you could be sitting there with all the pup long after they should of gone, theres also the rearing costs, -wormers heating if needed, its not cheap to rear a litter well and i dont suppose theyre going to be small dogs,
you also could of had the bitch injected after you found them tied, presuming you did? or where they left together while she was in season, either way its your responsibilty now,you've got a lot to think about and a lot on your hands either way,

Yes ok ! you no what they say you learn by your mistakes! i aplogise mattie! but everyone had seem to put a downer on the situtation.

i didnt read matties posting and find it was a lecture, i just think you where having all of the facts given to you, i didnt find it harsh at all, not sure which bit offended you?

so sorry you found that harsh I thought it was reallity
I offered you help,obviously you dont need it,I withdraw my offer.

The key problem word here is german shepherd Cross ( no disrespect to that breed meant),I think you will find that certain people would want them especially if they are BLACK!! but would want them to look fearfull and guard,Im sorry but this is not a good life for a dog at all usually they are on a chain in a yard,Your GSD bitch may be lovely natured but people generally would be put off.I have to say that Labrador crosses all though I dont believe in deliberately crossing labs do in fact make a good cross,especially a first cross they tend to live longer than a lab would normally do,we have had lab crosses in the rescue and have homed them but its not easy as dizzy says its hard enough with planned litters to find the RIGHT home. Sadly a lot of these free to good home dogs do not attract the right home but the something for nothing brigade. (always ask something for pups even if you give it to a charity) to deter just anyone wanting them .
Your Vet could have done something at the beginning but I think its too late now.
What you need to do is get a good book from the library about breeding and whelping and get yourself prepared and hope she doesnt need a C.section.
If you are in the North West you can ring me nearer the time and Ill give you what help you need if you are south you need to contact an all breed rescue who will help you find suitable homes for the pups.
Im sorry this post sounds gloomy and I do hope all goes well. Dont forget have your dog nuetered as your Bitch will come into saeson soon after the pups have gone.
If you click my name mattie you will see all my details for my number email etc... best wishes

Also forgot to say you will need to increase your bitch's food when she is five weeks pregnant,the book should advise you.

I see nothing wrong with this post! Mattie has given you the facts as they are and whether you like it or not these are the facts.

John

Agree with others Mattie was not harsh at all she has given you sound advice.

Karen

hello,

Not much in the way of practical help, but My gsdxLab died nearly two years ago of old age, I can't tell you how painful it is still. Mainly because she was a wonderful dog,the best of both breeds so I hope you will do your best to find the right homes for these pups as they are quite sensitive, but make fantstic pets for a family. Full of fun,love water and life is one big adventure!!! Sorry to prattle on but as mistakes go its not the worst one in the world.
Would you let me know what part of the country you are in? As for how much, a min donation to RSPCA for a x breed is £90.00 that includes microchip.
Heres wishing you all the luck in the world
Kim

This happened to someone I know, who took on a bitch from the dogs home. she was in season when she first saw her, and was told she had to wait to have her.

It turned out that she was in whelp when she wasn't gaining weight. The owner decided to rear no more than two pups to assuage the bitches instincts, and already had these two homes lined up before the birth. The reason for keeping two pups is that singleton pups can be awkward to bring up not having the interactions of a litter.

When the bitch had the pups there were 9 very mixed pups (Mum was a GSD cross), the vet came around and while she was taken for a wee PTS 7. This needs to be done as soon as they are born, so that she doesn't realise how many thre should be!

This really was the most responsible way, as she knows where the two pups that were reared are, and if needed could have them back at any time.

Brainless, I hadn't read your message when I replied, but I agree with everything you say.

Clare,

Forgot to say that my gsdxlab came from a well known breeder, both her parents were at crufts for various things(15 years ago now i forget) but the moral of the story is it shouldn't happen, but mistakes do and even in large well run kennels, so don' feel too bad, and the postings here do some times sound a little harsh but it is difficult to give advice in type without sounding harsh, no one means anything by it, we all just try and give our experiences and hope it helps.
Please reply soon as which part of the country/or your private e-mail would be useful as I sometimes have calls looking for pups and none in ( I help our local RSPCA rehoming).
kim

I do wish someone would point out the offending bits in my post the way I wrote it was to offer help and put over the facts,,I state now that my only intention was to help NOT upset anyone.A black Lab and a Gsd may produce all black,but not necesarily the lab could be carrying colour but I have seen black labxgsd adults and they can be intimidating to look at,and some people would want them for guarding,We once rescued a black lab bitch from appalling circumstances she had got in the wrong hands,its a long story and upsetting so I dont intend printing it here,they had cut her ear laps of to make her look like a pit bull type and mated her to a bull breed for tough looking pups,anyway I nearly gave up rescue it upset me so much.
Anyway Im not posting on this thread again I was just trying to help :(

Chin up Mattie

Your post was not at all offensive and a genuine offer of help. Some-times poeple just read things the wrong way no matter how hard you try to word them well. It's all well and good accepting that accidents happen - they do, but it does not remove the need to deal with the results of that accident and the ramifications can be significant but not everyone seems to appreciate the responsibility that goes with having puppies - be they planned or not. That's all you were offering to do - help minimise the future risks from such an event.

Hugs to you and yours. You have enough to cope with right now rather than someone mis-understanding your good intentions and offer of help. Suffice to say - If it was me and you'd offered me such help - I'd have snatched your hand off. I have boys as the thought of having puppies terrifies me

Pam n the boys

hi mattie
totaly agree with you some can't take the harsh realities of things, i think everone with expierience on these boards are trying to get the inexperienced to be responsible if a few straight talking people lay it on the line as it is and puts them off and makes them stop and think then thats a good thing,learnig and knoledge cost nothing librarys great sorse of books etc,
to the original poster do you not know the facts of life are the same for us humans as in the animal kingdom or were you hoping they did'nt fancy one another.regards tina

Thanks Kim!

Hi Claire,
Sorry about your crisis. Whether or not you choose to let the pups live, that's up to you.
A thought, though if you do choose to try & find homes. Don't give them away for free. Even though they are mutts, they still have value as good pets. Someone who is willing to give them a good home should be willing to pay for the vaccinations & some type of cost for them. I'd suggest somewhere around the equivalent of $50. (30pounds or so).

Sure, it's only a token of what you have invested in time, worry, and care, but we humans do tend to value more what we pay for. There's been a push in the US to not give away animals since those are the ones who seem to end up in rescue, homeless, and the experimental labs. Free things are devalued and deemed less than worthy. I don't like the idea and it doesn't matter to me about an animal's cost, but apparently that doesn't seem to be a common view.

I had a lab/gsd mix. I thought he was a wonderful dog. I would have one again, if I had the room. The best of both worlds. -- oh, he was also black with pumpkin orange eyes. I realize that Black seems to be an unwanted color, but I've had 4 dogs over the years, including one right now that are black. Sure, it's difficult to photograph them. But I love/d them dearly. :)

good luck with whatever you do.
toodles

Hi Claire, first thing to do is buy a copy 'Book of the Bitch' of by J.M. Evans and Kay White. I still keep a copy handy coming up to a whelping, and others here have recommended it in the past.

The second thing is to think of where the pups are going to be born, and where they are going to go when they get to the running around stage. You want a quiet place for the birth and early days, for Mum may not appreciate visits from anyone, and almost certainly will not want the Lab around in the early days. The best option is a spare room indoors, but a warm, lighted shed will do too. Once the pups are running around, ideally you want to be able to move them outside where they have a warm house and a safe run. I realise you may not have facilities laid on, but necessity is going to have to be the mother of invention. It may also have to be the mother of invention when it comes to a whelping box. You will be able to buy one, but they are expensive. You can also make one, and I'll send you some plans if you like, but that isn't cheap either. I've also seen whelping boxes made from an old chest of drawers, created in an alcove and even made from the sort of big cardboard box washing machines etc come in (though I imagine the last have to be repaced when they get damp.)

I think you may forget about getting anything other than a token price for the pups. It doesn't matter that the parents are KC reg, the pups will still be cross-bred. Sorry to say, but you can't take the scan as meaning that there will only be six puppies either. It depends on the when the scan was done, the equipment used, and the vet's experience at using it, but six on a scan has a tendency to become eight or nine in the whelping box.

Th mother's belly will probably not drop until closer to her time. You will need to increase her food now, but allow her to exercise. Have a look at her nipples. They will be pink, maybe a little enlarged and the hair surrounding them may have fallen out.

You need to being thinking about homes for the pups now. Start asking around family, friends and workmates, but don't try to force pups on anyone. When they are a few weeks old you could put an ad. in the local paper. Many people here are going to disagee strongly, and you may too, but if I was in you situation I'd also be thinking of putting some of these pups down at birth and letting the mother keep two or three to satisfy her maternal instincts. I know it sounds harsh, but to my way of thinking its better than letting the pups go to poor homes.

I'll be the first to disagree with your last comments! I had a much much loved mongrel dog and it is insulting to insinuate that only pedigree dogs go to the best homes!

Lara, sorry. I certainly didn't mean to insinuate that only pedigree dogs go to good homes, though on re-reading I can see why you thought so. Plenty of people with cross-breed and mongrels love them and care for them very well, and too many people with KC reg don't do either. But the sad fact is that it may well be a struggle to home 6 or more cross bred pups from an unplanned litter, and even harder to find them really good homes. An established breeder of KC Reg pups having a planned litter will usually have enough enquiries to at least allow them a choice in where the pups go and unfair as it may be, that does give an advantage.

The written word is often misunderstood :)

Idont know how I missed this thread , but having seen it now , I first need to comment on Matties post
It was a nice gentle informative post , with the kind offer of help.
I cant for the life of me find any reason how anyone could say it was a harsh post , where is the harshness please show me .
I also have to comment on Sharons post , again full of common sense ,
A GS X lab have big big litters ,sometimes 14 , nice as the thought is they may have a role in life as a working dog , I dont think so .
There are too many Labs and too many G sheps so I would be taking Sharons advice and making a decision at the birth , it will be kinder to know the end of the them .
I think nowadays it is hard enough to find good homes for the pure bred dogs.
My brother had a pointer bitch some years ago . he looked after my GS while I was on holidays . cutting a long story short there was a mating and he did not even know there was a mating untill some weeks later when she started to show, [silent heat]
Well he made the hard decision to cull as he felt the way things were he could not home them and know the end of them . so he culled 10 . It broke his heart He kept three as he had homes for them . They were lovely lab type puppies and big more like danes in height . I am afraid two were vicious and had to be pts the one remaining girl was an angel and is still alive now and is 11 yrs old .
My point is you never know with a cross what the two temperaments will realise I am sorry if you think this post is harsh as well , That is not my intention at all .
My main intent here is to give you food for thought before you make your decision , and I do realise it is your decision. I am only replying to your post with my humble opinion and experience of a cross litter . Best wishes Mari

Sharon Thank u so much 4 ur reply it has been most helpfull!
i have a 3 bedroom house and have turned the 3rd bedroom into like a nursery for the puppies (fenced off some off the room like a pen) A close friend of mine is a vet nurse and has given me loads of advice and said if i need a helping hand she will help!
as to regards to having some of the puppies put down i just couldnt face doing that (im to much of a animal lover)
i have started asking around friends and family a few are intrested! but if it mean me hanging on to the puppies until i find a good home then that is what i will do! i dont want to advertise them because i want them to go to home were i now they will be well looked after!

Thanks
Claire

Hi claire, I run my own doggy web site and I am frequently contacted by people looking for a dog. Quite a few look for a cross breed puppy and I am sure that if you advertise well and really vet the people that reply you will find good homes for all the pups. In my dog training class we have two springer/lab cross 5 month old pups and they are beautiful. They were an 'accident' but all the pups in the litter found a good home.I hope everything goes well for you and like you I would not consider having any of the pups destroyed.Please let me know how you get on.

I'm really pleased you're going to rear all the puppies. I seem to remember reading somewhere ....that a first cross of a labrador makes a particularly good working dog - who knows, perhaps these dogs may have a useful role in life, in addition to being much loved pets. Do the police use cross breeds? I think Guide dogs for the Blind use LabxGolden Retriever sometimes, don't they? I trust all goes well with the whelping and rearing, anyway.
Cathy.

Most police forces do not use crossbreeds, although they’re have been isolated incidents where they have been used in narcotic detection work. It may well be worth contacting the GDBA or maybe Hearing dogs for the deaf, they most certainly do use x breeds.

The only observation i have here is that just because both parents are working breeds, it doesn't necessarily mean that the pups will be capable of being working animals.

Good Luck

Steve Dean
Metropolitan Police

Hi Claire, I wouldn't dismiss advertising in the local/regional press. You do get some odd people replying to newspaper ads, but you also get some lovely ones, and if you use the local paper you'll be able to keep in contact with the pups. I was chary about the internet as a method of contacting puppy people until I did a Champdogs breed profile. At the time I didn't think of as advertising, and just wrote it because I was at a loose end one evening. I've been surprised by the number of people who have contacted me after they'd seen it. I won't be having a litter until early next year, so I haven't been able to supply any of the enquirers with pups. But some of them have come anyway, to see the adults and for a chat, and I'd have been delighted with any of those as potential puppy owners.

well accidents happen it can happen to the best of us years ago when we had boarding and breeding kennels. we had a flatcoat dog and a long haired weimaraner bitch that lived together she had a silent season we went down one morning to let them out and a very proud mother and father where sat with there one and only pup it looked just like a flatty but it had yellow eyes so accidents do happen there are plenty of decent people uot there that would love a dog but just cant afford top prices. good luck.

Claire T
Hi. I was going to recommend the Book of the Bitch too but see it's already been posted to you-do buy it I wish I'd had it for my first Munster litter, it's very comprehensive.

I know of someone who's Wei bitch was mated by a Ridgie after she'd been sold on by the breeder as being infertile! She had two solid black pups with ridges and the right homes came up.

I think because it is two breeds people know instantly, the cross may appeal but do charge something for the pups even just to cover your spiralling costs and it always deters the folk who want a freebie.

Good luck, if you need any help you'll get my e-mail address in my details. I'm no whelping expert, only having whelped 3 litters but I had to do the first one on my own so I know the panic you go through pre-birth. Just keep your bitch fit, it makes for an easier whelping for her if her muscles are toned.

Accidents happen it's a fact of life-that's probably the reason how most of us are here!!!!!! :) Like you I couldn't cull prefectly healthy pups, if you have an even-size litter, where do you start?

Some sort of contract for the puppy owners to sign saying they have to neuter their pups by a certain age may be helpful too, then you know they won't be responsible for future x-breeds. Even take £100 per pup with £50 refundable on neutering??? Just an idea.....

Well I've been looking through the papers and first crosses seem to go for over £200 a time (I have noticed some with the mastiff breeds charging £400 for crosses) so it may be worth weighing up the potential market as to cost.

The latest *in phrase* appears to be 'pedigree crosses', and from what I can see it is a licence to print money!

In my local recently, German Shepherd Dog cross Maremma puppies = £500!!!

...... but I wonder if they got the £500 from anyone? Our local free ads paper has had a 9 month old english mastiff bitch advertised for weeks now. She started at £700 and last week she was down to £250. Mind you Ian physically restrains me from going to have a look at her every week, because the address is from an estate of small houses with pocket handkerchief gardens and he reckons if I looked I'd almost certainly have her home.

There was a guy in Fife who's Ridgie got hold of his Lab (Or the other way around!). The pups from this mating sold very quickly being RR crosses

So a year later he did the mating deliberately and doubled the asking price - but he got them sold, no problem! If you have crossbreeds of breeds that people want but won't fork out full 'pedigree' price for, then the pups will go.

For a brown & white Large Munsterlander you can easily get £200, no reg.papers, no pedigree, nothing......

Speaking on the GSD side- I paid £450 for Kass but she's KC reg and excellent pedigree from good kennels (not that I'm saying you haven't got good kennels Claire;)) the breeder's on the panel for the 'National GSD' club. In my local freeads/admag pedigree GSD's, not KC, go for £180 (my sister in law bought one). I wouldn't be too ambitious with the price- can you possible contact a local dog shelter and tell them, they may have enquiries that can be passed onto you for your puppies. I'm sure you'll find good homes for them all:) I wish you lots of luck and remember 'once an accident/mistake, twice a habit'. I'd charge £100 with a spay/neuter agreement and £50 back upon proof. Advertise now and see how many enquiries you get a price then you'll be able to tell if it's too much or not. Shame we're fixed up for a pup- they'd have been ideal considering I like GSD's and my other half black labs:D Good luck and let us know how she gets on;)

Stacey x x x

Hi Leigh

A little off the thread but I have Maremmas and was amazed by your report of the ad for
Maremma/GSD crosses. What planet are these people living on? Purebred Maremma puppies
don't go for £500 ! I really hope this was an accidental mating - the last thing we need as
a breed is people cross-breeding them deliberately. The guardian temperament is great
in a well-bred Maremma but I hate to think what might happen if it is was mixed with
other potentially conflicting instincts.

I don't suppose you still have that ad do you?

Janet

Welcome to forum Janet :-)

The ad appeared in our local,weekly *free Ad* newspaper, which covers Kent and a little of South East London.

Sorry,we read them and bin them.

Having seen maremmas *flock watching* in Italy, curiosity drew my attention to the ad in the first place. I would think the resulting off-spring from this combination, were not for the *faint hearted*!

Leigh

Ah well - just would've been curious to call them and see
what was what!

Thanks for the welcome. Where in Italy were you - Abruzzo?

Cheers
Janet

We saw them mainly in northern Italy, along the Swiss/Austrian borders. I have been wracking my brain now, to think where else we saw them ...lol We only travelled down as far as Ancona and then cut across and back up. Somewhere on the way back up we saw them as well. I will ask my chauffeur :D

Leigh

The mastiff crosses usually sell for big money , but it is those type dogs that make a foundation for pit bulls . I know of the practice and find no matter what the cross once bull mastiff or english mastiff is present it is usually no problem to sell them . Mari

Hi Mari, a friend of had an accidental bullmastiff x GSD litter of 14 pups. She didn't think she would be able to place them all and didn't expect to like most of those who would be interested. So she culled to two pups, both of which lived long and happy lives and had super temperaments (as did mum and dad). She didn't charge for the pups and though it was~15 years ago ago, maybe she should have.

As a footnote to this topic, I have just linked onto
Petsmiles.com through the Kennel Club's website and they offer a clasified section for anyone wanting to advertise, just a thought for those who have any type of pups to sell. :)

I think this has gone a bit off topic!
Claire needs advice mostly on how to raise a healthy litter of pups and how to find them lovely homes, going on about money for this and that kind of cross is not gonna help... I do understand though why some crosses might fetch a lot, some of the rarer breeds cost a lot of money which a lot of folk can't afford, e.g Alaskan Malamutes cost around £850, so a Malamute cross GSD for example, might go for £450, and that is worth it for a lot of people as the dog may look very husky like!
But anyway Claire, good luck with the pups, please consider having your dog neutered now as he will be always at your bitch after having mated her, also if you think more along the lines of finding the pups the best homes possible rather than getting money for them, around £50 would be a reasonable amount to ask, but please be very careful with the kind of people you will get when you are selling puppies so cheaply. Sad to say, but sometimes, the cheaper the pup the nastier the person.

Thanks for eveyones post you all have been very helpfull!
She gave birth last nite started at 9.00pm and finished at 5.30am! (i had a total of an hours sleep)
we Had 6 Boys And 4 Girls ALL absolutly adorable! (ALL jet black! Nothing like mum at all ) she did really well didnt have to do anything at all just really sat back and watched!
all the puppys are doing well! mum is brillant with them no problems what so ever just glad of a health litter!
anyway thanks again to eveyone for there advice!
"ps the book of whelping and rearing is an excelent book" i would recomend it to any one with pup's on the way!

Thank u all

Claire

Wow - what a big litter!! :)
Glad everything has worked out so far.
Good Luck :)

glad everything went ok one of mine had a litter 2 weeks ago they are adorable to hope everything goes ok and keep us posted on there progress

Congratulations to you and mum Claire! Told you that a few pups would have hidden from the scanner :-). Keep us posted on how they all get on, and let us know how the home-finding goes too.

My advice would be to advertise very carefully now!!! You want to establish a relationship with the prospective new owners, and have several weeks of contact to get a better feelling for them. I know that I advised culling the litter down to a couple of Pups, but as you have opted to rear them all your priority will be to find the right responsible homes, and avoid the well it's cheap./free so lets have one kind of people!

I think you will need to charge £100 with some money back on proof of neutering. If you put that in the advert it may appeal to responsible people.

Your bitches food intake will very quickly need to be about 5 times that of normal, given as 4/5 meals a day. I moisten the dry food well as it is easier to get in them,, as they often get chapped sore mouths from cleaning all those pups!

You will pretty soon find that you are using a bag of food a week (probably nearer two by 6 weeks), plus meat if you are using it. I always buy a 5kg pack of Litterlac puppy milk. It is excellent for mixing soaked puppy food into a porridge, and as a drink/food for the pups and Mum.

I have just looked up the various costs with my litter of 9 2 1/2 years ago!

Dry Food £150 (breeder and friend buying wholesale prices). I also used up 2 lb of dog meat/tripe a day. this is the cost of feeding Mum and pups. You will probably use about half as much food again or maybe more, as the parents are both bigger than my 20kg Elkhounds.

You will need to buy wormer, I would get the amount required all in one go. You will probably get through 2 100ml bottles of Panacur (about £25).

As you are going to be pretty out of pocket by the time the pups go, especially if you oprt to refund say £25 per pup on prooof of neutering, you may not be able to stretch to the following, but they are a nice touch.

A piece of Veterianry bedding (you can cut a 60 x 40 piece into 2 or 4, and you can get it mail order for about £20), collars a book on puppy/dog care like the RSPCA one or Sherleys dog book, which I give as it is very practical.

Ask all the prospective new owners lots of questions about their lifestyle, sus out their attitude/commitment to pets. when they come to vgisit DON'T SHOW THEM THE PUPS straight away. Have Mum and Dad in the room and watch their reactiuons. Can they deal calmly with a boisterous welcome, or do they cringe, does anyone sit picking hairs of their clothes? Puppiea are iresistible, but it is how they are with the adult dogs that really gives you a feel for them! Pups get un cute very quickly, and it is the adult dog you want them to love and be able to cope with and look after.

You probably know a lot of this, so I hope I am not coming acrtoss preachy! :D

Best of Luck!!!!

Hi only just read this posting today ... (and no Mattie I thought you were helpful too :) ) ... but I would give some advice to Claire which I know you will take as you have taken the trouble to ask for help. It is true you will get many many people contact you if you advertise these puppies, and the vast majority will be unsuitable (I am sorry but its usually true). You should consider contacting a local rescue with an excellent reputation ... (not necessarily the RSPCA!!) ... for doing home checks. My own rescue has stepped in in the past to help people with cross bred litters and done the home checks .. it is much easier for a bona fide rescue to turn down bad homes than it would be for you. Also from rescue work both Mattie and I know (and others too) that a proportion may be returned so you need to work out what you will do if this happens .. a rescue would offer some solution to this by having official adoption forms completed which said the pups had to be returned to the rescue.

The only harsh things I have read on this posting have been understandable. Advising you to have the pups put to sleep is an easy solution given the number of unwanted dogs .. but not easy when you look at those bundles of life when they arrive!! Good luck in raising them and please think carefully about the rehoming ... I have always been dubious about offering them around friends .. if these friends had genuinely wanted dogs wouldn't they have got them before now?

Caitlin, it's irrelevant to Claire, because she has made her decision on the subject and its one I respect. But I don't think that Barbara or Mari were suggesting culling the litter as an easy solution. I certainly wasn't, because I've done it with very large planned litters, and its far from easy :-(.

I'm probably going to set the cat among the pigeons here, but I don't think that I'd buy a KC reg pup, even one that I badly wanted, if it meant letting a stranger come in to inspect my home. It would be another matter entirely if the breeder wanted to call, but I'm afraid that I'm old fashioned enough not to welcome even the best meaning of 'unofficial inspectors'. And in Claire's situation, I'd want to be very sure that the rescue society was not going to assume any rights over my puppies before I involved them, especially if the societies' official adoption forms were used .

Sorry if the above sounds harsh or unappreciative of people who run rescue societies. Its not intentional - I could can't think of a better way to phrase it :-).