Dear All, I work full time but really want to be a dog owner.  The Solicitor I work for says his two dogs probably sleep all day - as there is never any destruction in the house.  I would love to hear from other people who work full time - as unfortunately we can't all sit at home watching day time TV !!!! - yet still want a life with dogs.

If you put full time work into the searh facility on the forum you will find the topic has been discussed in depth quite a lot.

Me and my OH both work full time and have a 3 year old Boxer.  I think that routine is the key - Glaz gets a 15 minute walk round the block every morning before work and is then settled down on the sofa before we leave in the morning.  I then go home every lunchtime and he gets a 35 minute gallop through the woods and again, is left settled down on the sofa before I go back to work.  He then gets another 30-45 minutes run when we've both got home in the evening followed by a last walk with his Dad before bedtime.

As he gets lots of walks during the day he does tend to sleep when we're not there.  Infact he's generally fast asleep when I come through the door in the same place as when we left him!!

You will probably get responses from many individuals who have managed to make this work, allthough I have never heard of anyone consulting their solicitor on the subject before :).  However for a more balanced view you could contact your local rescue home and ask how many of their dogs are there as a result of the attempt not working and then consider how upsetting it will be for you and the dog if you are one of the unlucky ones who doesn't manage to pull it off.
I am sorry if this sounds a bit negative and wasn't what you were wanting to hear but how about exploring all the options like part-time work, downsizing a little of car ownership, holidays etc. dogs bring rewards in themselves and are worth making sacrifices for in my estimate :)

This can be an emotive subject with lots of different views. 

However, on a practiacal point have you thought how you would house train a puppy when you are not there?  I would think it near on impossible.  Plus there is the destructive side of a puppy, if you are not there to show it right from wrong.

It is a difficult situation if you are not around for the first few months at least.

Hi guest,
you're right we can't all sit at home or be kept by our husbands! (although I wish!) both me and my partner work full time (although my hours are flexible) and we have found that bringing up our pup (now almost 5 months old) has been incredibly hard work but very rewarding and fun, I think you can do it as long as you put enough effort in, basically the dog needs to be a priority evertime you're not in work. And housetraining took us about a month with us working so it's not that bad. To be honest with you just because you are at home does not qualify you to be a good dog owner, we have several dogs on our street that are totally neglected and untrained and they all have families that are at home all day.

Sarah

I agree, if you want it to work and put the effort in then why not? It will hard but very rewarding and I would recommend you taking at least 2 weeks off when you first get him/her. You could alternate it, you take a couple weeks off then your partner take a couple weeks off so that would meen you have given the pup 4 weeks to get him/her housetrained and used to your routine etc. before leaving him properly when you go back to work :-)

It is possible to have a dog and work full time but you have to be very dedicated especially when you get up at 05:00 to walk your dogs in the dark, with horizontal rain prior to going to work and then again on your return when you would rather have a stiff drink and curl up in front of the TV.

There is no "ideal" home situation for a dog............you can make anything work if you want it badly enough.

hi, I know this will probably get some negative responses but i am just putting forward what has worked for me and my family. I managed to control my puppy's destructiveness by crating him when i was not there. Alot of ppl disagree with this but then again alot of trainers recommend this too. It stands to reason that if bored n left to it's own devices a puppy will make his own entertainment and so if it is crated it is much safer for the puppy and better for you!! Provided the puppy is out of the crate when you are at home and given plenty of exercise the crate is a good idea and also helps with house training.

Just my 2 pennys worth :)

And provided the adult, trained, dog is crated for no more than 4-5 hours maximum. Of course for a puppy the time limit is far less.
:)

My husband and I both work full time and we have benn very lucky in the fact that we have a very good puppy, he hasn't been half the trouble we had prepared ourselves for. But this is not always the case one of the women I work with left their dog home for the day and it put a whole through the wall :o
You have do devote your time to them when you get home though...a good routine is the key!

you shouldnt have to crate a puppy to control its destructiveness, if a puppy is destructive then you should ask yourself what is the problem not take the easy route and lock him away. Puppyproofing your home should be the key to keeping him safe, what you really mean is keeping your home safe from his destructiveness which is caused by him being bored which is caused by you not being there enough!!
Putting a puppy in a crate because it suits you instead of spending more time with it is awful. 

If I remember from previous threads, your pup did not chew. Are you suggesting that when my dog was a pup I should have sat up with her all night to prevent her chewing and to keep her occupied. Our kitchen was puppy proofed - nothing at floor level apart from the usual things that you find in a room - door, skirting board, cupboard door, wall. How are you suggesting that people puppy proof these ?? Most people do the puppy proofing by using a crate. Can I respectfully suggest that you allow people who have experienced major chewing in a puppy to cope with it the best way that they can.

Daisy

I knew you would all respond to my post this way, I'm surprised there werent more replies no doubt there will be later.
I wanted to see how you liked it, you dont do you.  This was the way I was treated when this subject last raised its ugly head. At that particular time I just expressed an opinion and didnt question any of you which is how I believe a forum should be respected . Also how I conduct myself on a personal level, I actually had private messages from people praising my diplomacy and patience under the severest of pressure and their commenting that they wouldnt dare say what they wanted to because they were worried about being ganged up on. Now I have decided to act like some of you do which is being belligerent and judgemental and angry you see how it feels but the funny thing you have risen to it I didnt.

To Daisy, doesnt your puppy sleep at night, ours slept all night except the first night at home, we must be lucky!!
Lucky to have a Staff that sleeps all night, doesnt chew and is not aggressive, is left off the lead because we live in a rural area, comes on recall etc I could go on and on and on, anyway I wanted to finish on a positive note.
I havent been on this forum very long but have tried at all times to balance my arguments, be respectful, not judge anyone but still express an honest opinion. Posters on this forum have driven many people from here with their bullying and I admit defeat. I know they say if you cant beat them join them and on this occasion I did but I will not lower myself to your levels again.

It's not a question of whether I like your posts or not :) You haven't given any useful suggestions to owners who have destructive dogs. How would you cope with a puppy who chews the door frame while you go to the loo ? I'm willing to listen to any helpful suggestions if my next puppy is as bad as my last. That is all I have asked you - helpful suggestions so that a crate is not needed.

As for the rest of your post, I fail to see why you are upset. I merely asked how you could advise on not using a cage to stop chewing if you haven't experienced the problem :) At least I've achieved the dubious honour of being labelled a bully :D


Daisy

My pup is put in a crate as he is home alone with my mums dog Harvey and has recently had an operation. Believe me the way those two play something will be damaged and I certainly dont want any set backs with his eye. Once its healed and no longer have to be mindfull of the level of play between them. The world is his Oyster.

I remember when I was younger my mum mowed the front lawn and did a spot of gardening. Came round the back of the house to find the GS had dug down to the foundations. She was a nightmare she ate the patio doors, door frames, dug the floor up. She was a complete nightmare. Now she needed a crate, even if left to go to the loo.

Coleystaff

Does that mean you never have to put a baby/toddler in a playpen to make sure it never damages itself?

You can totally puppy/baby proof your home so that if you have to leave it to, god forbid, have a shower, go to the loo, hang up the washing, you can relax knowing that NO HARM CAN BEFALL THEM...............?????????????????

One does not necessarily use a crate INSTEAD of spending more time with it but because one actually has a life..................

i think its up to coleystaff if she crates or not!
i never did until nell hurt her leg badly at 2yrs & had to be oncage rest, obviously she hated it. so with flynn i did use the cage as a  pup,purely to "introduce" one -not because i had too.
its horses for courses how you bring up your own puppy,what suits you & your lifestyle may or may not suit others!!!!

I agree, they are a useful tool, but I would only use them in the home as a last resort or when I have a litter.  I do find them most useful in show venues, other peoples homes and vehicles though safe in the knowledge they are safe and can't cause damage.

I do not like the way they seem to be commonly used in the USA for any time the owner is absent.  I have never left the dogs in the house in one, and yes have had some damage from chewing, but doi not like the idea of such close confinement unless absolutely necesary.

yes i totally agree that they can easily be abused & a excuse for not training

Guest
I would just like to add that it is possible to have a dog and work....many of us do it. HOWEVER 2 dogs left alone all day are more likely to rile each other up than sleep all day.If you want a dog I would suggest you source a mature dog rather than a pup and that you only get one.I would also suggest you research the breed very carefully as some breeds are more accepting of being left alone than others.
Archer

I was one of the people who pm'd coleystaff praising her for her patience and diplomacy when everyone and their dog was coming down on her like a tonn of bricks :(

I have to say,i am in total agreement with her on this one.Too many people use crates as babysitters.

I must also be one of the lucky ones Dogs have been a constant in my life since i was a  kid,i have NEVER been without one or two...or three :D I have never even remotely considered putting any of my dogs in a cage.
I've had a few who liked to chew,but this was easily remedied with giving more of my time to them,and a big bone to gnaw on always helps.
I too would ask myself why a dog feels the need to rip up the house in my absence,i would be looking at the underlying issue,not suppressing his needs by locking him in a cage. However much i try,i can not follow this train of thought.

I think it is great if you can manage with a crate, unfortunately I cannot and like to have them to keep a very small puppy and adult apart and for safety when I have to leave the room.  Just as I would protect my baby by placing it in a playpen in order to prevent forseeable accidents.

Nothing to do with destruction of property but the possible destruction of my dog from chewing through a live cable, getting a blockage etc.

coleystaff,

As I only joined this forum in the last week I would not of been one of the ppl that upset you so why choose my post :( lol j/k
Seriously tho, Don't let these guys get to you. I knew before I posted that plenty would not like the crate idea but at the end of the day, I don't actually give a damn whether anyone else likes it or not. I was telling the guest what worked for me and my dog, which is also something that is recommended by trainers, so they could make up their own mind. The ppl here don't know me or my dog who is a very obedient and happy staffy, he just goes through phases of chewing and the crate worked for me. To hell with what anyone else things about it coz i aint interested. :D

Hmmm - When 'mad louis' was a pup I popped upstairs to get changed when I'd come back down he'd eaten the arm of the sofa - I was gone no longer than 15 minutes , he was with my 3 other dogs so not on his own, he had a 'toy box overflowing with toys and chews and he still ate the furniture/walls/doors/well just about everything he could - crating him was the only way to ensure that he did no damage to himself or the house when I could not keep an eye on him ( and yes I put him in my kennels when I was at work through the day too) at 12 months he just stopped and now only sucks thoughtfully on 'his' squeaky cat toy when he needs to mouth anything :D and is completely trustworthy when left in the house - although he does still like to sleep in his crate when he wants some peace and quiet.

You have been very lucky Coleystaff and until you have experienced an extremely destructive puppy ( think force of nature with fur :D :D ) then you don't really know how fantastic crates can be in keeping your sanity !.

Yvonne

LOL - 'Mad Louis' sounds a cloned copy of my Tara except that Tara sucks on a gorilla :D

Daisy

coleystaff and frodo, I was wondering, could you come and puppy proof our house please!!!  We have always caged a puppy, so it can sleep away from the older dogs when it needs to.  WE cage two dogs in a large cage and two are left out while everyone is at school/work.  Our youngest, although now 3 will chew up the carpet if left too long.  One of our others when younger chewd the bottom step (they are left in the Hall) Ok so we could put them in the kitchin, front room, dinning room, but their we have sofas, table's, chairs, windows, and afew times while we have been at home in evenings the chairs have been knocked over where careless playing takes places and has landed on the dog, what if we wern't there?

so left with the hall and landing with all room doos closed.  They have steps to chew, what if they accidently get knocked by one of the others at cut their mouth open while we are not there?

So now all puppies are crated and the youngest two are crated (theroy being puppy and some company)  Although our youngest two are 3 & 5 (nearly 6) they will rush into their cage while I get my coat on to go to school (I'm last to leave) and will sit in their cage waiting for their biscuit, fresh water and for me to close the door!  The problem is I'm happy to leave them out if I'm back home in just a couple of hours!

We also have to give them access to hall AND landing due to one dog jumping over the gate, if he hurt himself while we're not there......Well I don't want to come home to anything  nasty!

Cages are also so much easier to use when bitches are in season, and when you have dogs happy to go in a cage and sleep then it does make 3 weeks easier!

Also makes it easier when you have 4 dogs at a show!  No matter how many people we have!

However your view's mean you don't believe in cages, and thats fine, but alot more of us like them for safety and peace of mind just because of those little "what if's"

Crates are great for keeping puppies safe when you are out or in bed at night but I think they should never be used during the day for full-times workers.  That would add up to maybe 16 hours or more a day in a crate how can a puppy develop physically and mentally in conditions like that!

I agree - about an hour at a time for a pup during the day would be plenty, with at least an hour outside it afterwards.
:)

Well that's a pup's life isn't it nap, play, nap, play, just as nature intended them to develop :)

Yep! Trouble is, it requires someone to be there when they need to play. So, unless fulltime workers can take the pup to work with them (and I know several who do) or who can organise a 'pupminder' (as they would a childminder) then IMO pups and fulltime working don't mix.
:)

On this I totally agree.  Someone on a US based bvreed list I am on had bought a Pet shop pup and was proposing on crating it while they worked full time, only letting it out briefly at luch time.  this on top of crating at night!

I was surprised that other expereinced Pet and Rescue dog (the list is for all owners many working in rescue or with dogs purely as pets) didn't immiediately critiscise this arangement.

I did and was surprised at how many people do crate their sogs while they go to work!!!

There are others on the list who take their dogs to daycare, not kennels but more like a nurseryn for dogs where they have freedom and play with appropriate companions during the working day (of course this isn't cheap) and other folk have various daycare arrangements with family friends and neighbours.

It's not always possible to take a puppy shopping with you, Coleystaff. I know we all have to leave our puppies alone sometimes (if only to avoid separation anxiety problems) so it's vital that they're safe. Some people might put the pup in a secure kennel and run. Some might shut it in a playpen. Others may use a crate. What matters is that the pup gets used to being alone for periods of time, and can come to no harm.

And no, this isn't a criticism of your posts. I've never crated my dogs, and only one has been a chewer (ate a doorframe and a large quantity of the plaster off one wall on one brief occasion!), and I'd been foolish enough to leave him in the puppy-proofed utility room!
:)

This is very interesting.  I feel I'm not alone in having my house 'renovated' by a dog!  :D
Only Molly chooses to chew through the night! never through the day cos she knows she will get caught out as  there's always someone in my house, its very rarely empty. But she must do it sometime so it has to be while we sleep :) I've tried various ways of detering her from eating the cupboards, skirting, doors etc from crates to pet sprays, perfume :D etc. Ah well, looks like OH will have to buy me a new fitted kitchen when she retires from chewing :D :D Needless to say she isn't allowed in the lounge, can't expect a new leather suite aswell!

I got a new kitchen after Tara stopped chewing :D A few people thought that I was mad, as I only waited a few months after she stopped chewing before I ordered it - but I was confident that she had stopped. She hasn't touched the new kitchen (nor has my older dog, but then he has never chewed) :

As she wasn't allowed in the lounge as a young pup - and later only when supervised, our 12 year old three piece suite is in perfect condition :D

Daisy

I had a beardie bitch who used to eat the plaster off the walls as a pup & her G Grand children that we kept once ate a hole in the back of the sofa & climbed in whilst I was in the bath ! & my champion bitch once ate a pair of shoes the only bit left were the metal bows ! & she ate them whilst they were still in the box ! she also once ate a stew I had in the gas oven which was on at the time ! & she raided the upright freezer & ate a tub of Ice Cream I was the only person who had dog locks on the oven, freezer etc & we invested in crates shortly after the eating of the sofa !

Path of destruction.... sitting comfortably.... I shall begin....

I have had dogs for nearly 50 years, in the past 4 years alone I have

had my kitchen set on fire twice, dogs turned over on with chip pan in it, and later dogs turned elec ring on with chip pan also on that ring.

One dog left in kitchen, one dog left in living room, they ate the dividing wall to get to each other.

5 sofas devoured, not chewed or nibbled, but right down to the wooden carcass

carpets shreaded, lino which lasted less that 23 hours from being laid, completely shredded

Bottom half of a wooden door eaten

most of the door jams and skirting boards devoured.

Flooded, dog brought hose into house while I was gardening and turned my back for half hour

2 single beds, bases and matresses eaten

fridges opened and contents eaten

washing basket emptied and contents used as tug of war

And if they find just a little peice of wallpaper turned up at the corner, you can be sure of the whole strip coming off.

And the best yet.  A whole bottom stair from the hall stairs eaten, carpeting was removed to get to it.

And guess what, I do not go out to work, most of this destruction was done while I was busy at home, gardening, in the bath, at night in bed etc. 

I invested in crates a year ago, and not only is my house sage, but also my dogs and my sanity. Bank manager thinks it was a good idea too :D :D

PS, that list is not by any means the complete list, it goes on, but you get the gist :)

PMSL I know just where you are coming from fortunately none of the cavaliers have gone into internal redesigning just landscaping !

MM, my garden is safe, it is on pain of death they set one solitary paw on it lol :D  But the fish move to the edge of the pond when they see the shadows and know that at least one Labrador is about to do the usual belly flop, grab the only pond lily in flower and emerge the other side, playbow and basically take the p**s. :D .  Remind me again why we have dogs.  All medics point out that owning dogs, reduce the heart rate, have a calming effect and generally prolong our havoc ridden lives.  I could re-write that..  They induce heart attacks, they drive you to the verge of mental and nervous breakdown, and bankruptcy is only a matter of time :D :D  Then they lovingly place their head on your lap, look at you with those expressive brown eyes, and your heart just melts.  And they think 'Sucker'. dont you just love em :D :D

Bit sneaky but they have their own bit of garden to landscape LOLOLOLOL the best bit is out front which they cannot get to & the biggest bit is safe at the back behind a fence LOL until someone opens the gate that is !!!!!!!!! Nevermind they are only plants !!!

High BP me ? only when I'm held up on the way to a show Bankrupt tell me about it just spent a few pennies on a new Lintran box for the babes & considering a new crate for sleepovers the night before shows

LOL don't do ponds as we have problems with ducks & we haven't got a pond !! Good job Cavaliers are flushing spaniels & can't get near the Oranges ;)

I'm sorry but curiosity has got the better of me, I don't want to start a fight but I am curious to know how all you people actually make a living? I would love to spend all day at home with my dog but I have to work! From what I hear on this forum, most people seem to think that owning a dog should only be for people who spend all day at home. You are VERY privelidged if you don't have to work, or can work from home.

Sarah

I used to work part-time Smurggle - 20 hours a week away from home and then had a Grooming Parlour built at home, so my dogs have never been left for more than 4.5 hours due to work.

I didn't work while my children were very small, but started working school-hours only when my youngest went to kindergarten. Personally, I don't believe in people working full-time when they have small children. When we considered having a dog, it was with the same belief. We waited until my children were teenagers and able to help walk the dog and I was only working for a few hours, a couple of days a week. We timed the arrival of the pup so that both children were home in the summer holidays so it had plenty of attention during the first few months. Then the pup was crated while I was at work. As the pup got older (we have an older dog), I increased my working hours (pup is now nearly 3 :) )and the dogs are now left while I work 26 hours a week. I have been able to negotiate a long lunch hour so I can come home and give them a good walk.

If I wasn't able to do this and had to work full-time I wouldn't have had a dog - let alone children :)

Daisy

Unfortunately I didnt have the choice when my daughter was young I had to go out to work, when she was 6 months old.

Now Im a single parent and work as I dont believe in teaching my daughter that money comes through the front door, you have to go out and work hard. To pay for myself, my daughter, the mortgage and pet care.  But this said my 10 week old pup is not left all day he has someone there who looks after my mums dog and my pup. Well watches the pup sleep for a solid 4 hours then wakes pees and then sleeps for another 4 hours, Im yet to see him awake in the afternoon, do I envy him.

At the end of the day, CDers dont take on the responsibility of dog ownership lightly. If it works for them and their dogs excelllent.  

I work part-time, and my husband works night shifts. When he's out, I'm home, and vice versa. This works because the dogs are trained adults. When they were pups I was at home full time being a mum, or we wouldn't have had them.
:)

Same here - I only work part time and my partner does shift work, so our two are never left alone for more than two hours in any day :)

For me, initially, it meant a lot of sacrifice.  Three cars in 25 years, husband rides a bike :)  Free bus to FineFare and because I could move faster than all the pensioners, that the bus was really meant for, I could beat them to the offers counter once the bus got there :D.  Have done bits of part-time work and husband works like a Trojan, I hardly see him.
Not working full-time has given me lots of time to consider how best to use what money we had, never ever borrowed (apart from the mortgage) so never paid any interest, saved for things, which earned interest, and spent time considering the best ways to invest.  From small beginings did well from my investments and now own a second home outright.  All it takes is a willingness to think out the box, consider what you can do without and all other possibilities of making/saving money.

... it's called juggling!!!  I work full time but can sometimes take the dogs with me, can sometimes work at home and sometimes I have to leave them (they have a kennel and run - a few steps up from the crate they started out in but the same idea!).  I have a son who works and one at school and we have rota's for dog responsibility (informal ones of course).  We had puppies in the summer break when I knew we could be at home 24/7 for almost three months non-stop and it's all worked OK for us.  It is hard work but worth it.  Like Emma, it isn't an option for me not to work but that doesn't stop us being keen dog lovers/owners who do our best for them.

I work part-time, school hours. So I leave at 8.45, hubby home at 10.30 for half hour break, I'm back at 12 till 12.50 then home at 3. And every 6 weeks I get 1 or 2 weeks off! :D and 7 weeks in the summer :) Plenty of time with my dogs, oh and the kids of course :D :D

once our dog ate the seatbelts when we left her in the car for 5mins?? we never left her in the car again!! The same dog chewed a drill too, luckly it wasn't plugged in. I think i would get a crate just for now and again.. peace of mind if popping out, sleeping.. etc. I think they are a good idea for keeping your puppy safe for a short time.