Hi

I would like to teach my agility dog to speed up on cue. She's fast but isn't very high-drive, she slows down a lot on the dog walk and in the weaves. I think I've taught her (accidently!) to slow down and concentrate on accuracy on those 2 obstacles, and now I can't get her back up to speed no matter what I do! I've tried toys and sauages and liver and clapping and squeaky voices! etc. but none of it works..

Any of you training experts know how to teach speed?

She is clicker trained, but I'm not sure how teach it.. I was thinking about having her on the lead, giving her the command 'quickly' (or whatever) and running... but then again I don't want her to be dependent on me being stuck to her side.

Any ideas??

Thanks

Ana

it might be better if she takes them steady as then she has acuracy, i have a fast dog and he kills me trying to make sure he hits the contact. Where as Cassie who goes about it slower never misses the contact and will rarely miss a weave post. She obviously feels more confident doing them at her own pace

With the weaves, you need to practice away from the club, your garden will be fine.  If you haven't any weave poles, buy some canes from the garden centre.

Just start with three and use a favourite toy, get her switched onto it before you approach the weaves without letting her have it, run up to the weaves with the toy postitioned infront of her nose as she goes through, as soon as she does the last one throw the toy and have a game.  A tuggy type toy is the best to use.

Gradually and I mean gradually, build up the amount of weaves.

Two important things to remember.........the toy must be special and only come out in agility training........don't let her do the weaves at club until you have speeded up at home and then take the toy to club.

Touch points - Use the toy and place it at the bottom of the contact, you may have to encourage the dog along the dog walk with it first so she gets the idea.  Make sure the toy is on the base of the touchpoint not the ground.

Hope this helps
Sandra

The thing is, she used to do them quickly and with enthusiasm but used to jump the contacts most of the time and miss out some of the weaves. I stopped her being so over the top and took her across the dog walk and through each weave pole individually by the collar for a few months and praised her everytime she did them so now I think she has the impression the obstacles are meant to be done slowly. I never thought it would be a problem because at club it wasn't really important who went round in the fastest time. But now that its the agility season, I want to try and encourage speed AND accuracy.. not just accuracy.

Well give what I suggest a try, it doesn't sound like you have anything to lose..........a slow dog won't even get in the placings, but a fast one could just get it right on the day!!

Ooops! forgot. Are you sure that she actually knows where she is meant to stop? You could try retraining her contacts backwards, sitting her on the end and clicker training that. I found that using a toy as a target worked for one of mine but clicker training and food works better for the other one. I use clicker and food in the weaves for him too. I always thought mine understood what they were supposed to do until I tried re-training them as their contacts weren't very good and I was surprised to find that they didn't really have a clue :-(  One of my dogs is now so weave obsessed that it is easier to pull him off a tunnel than a set of weaves and he will get the entry and fly to the end regardless of where I am stood, all I have to say is go. :-)

You could try teaching her a "go" command. It's really easy and once they get the idea they really do GO! :-p When I take mine for a walk I always make them wait while I take their leads off. I then walk away without looking back as I fasten the leads around myself so that I don't lose them and when I am ready I just say GO, and they do.

' One of my dogs is now so weave obsessed that it is easier to pull him off a tunnel than a set of weaves and he will get the entry and fly to the end regardless of where I am stood, all I have to say is go '

I envy you!!! :p

But thanks, I will try the 'go' command and merge it with what Sandrah has said. I'm not sure she knows exactly what is expected of her on the contacts, but she knows to slow down and walk across it. I never clicker trained the contacts, so if I manage to get her speed back and she begins to miss the contacts again, I'll retrain the contact from scratch with the clicker. The A-Frame and see-saw aren't a problem, she does them  fine and gets a real kick out of the see saw! I think it may be her stride pattern though that makes her get them.

Did you teach her exactly where the contact point is? Often I watch dogs creep down the dog walk or seesaw because they know there is a stop coming but don't really understand whereabouts. I clicker trained all my collies on their contacts but they were trained to stop with front feet on the ground. Therefore they know exactly where to stop and there in no confusion in their minds. They all belt across the equipment and even if I keep running and say nothing they will still stop in the right place. That is the beauty of clicker training; it marks the exact behaviour in exactly the right place at exactly the right time.

HTH

Did you teach her exactly where the contact point is? Often I watch dogs creep down the dog walk or seesaw because they know there is a stop coming but don't really understand whereabouts. I clicker trained all my collies on their contacts but they were trained to stop with front feet on the ground. Therefore they know exactly where to stop and there in no confusion in their minds. They all belt across the equipment and even if I keep running and say nothing they will still stop in the right place. That is the beauty of clicker training; it marks the exact behaviour in exactly the right place at exactly the right time.

HTH

<<<waves at colliemad :-)>>>

No, I haven't clicker trained the contacts so I'm not sure she knows. This is my first dog I've done agility with, I'm glad I've made mistakes though 'cause I've learnt from them.  I'm getting a collie in the future which I will train to do agility with a clicker! Weaves were a nightmare to train at the beginning, so next dog will be trained with the V method.

Thanks for all your replies, been very helpful

It's not as great as it sounds. :-( I was doing a nice run recently in intermediate jumping and I turned him round a wing and sent him to the next jump ( I thought!?) he decided to go past it and do a tight right angled weave entry, he was halfway through before he realised I was calling him back and the judge was trying not to laugh :-p:-p:-p:-p:-p BLESS! I actually taught him on upright poles as he has no respect for the "V" weaves. He is also my first dog and is very much into my body language so if my shoulders are pointing in the wrong direction then that is where he goes regardless of where I think I may be sending him. One REALLY important thing with the weaves though is NEVER get annoyed no matter how frustrating it gets sometimes. I know people whose dogs now won't weave at all because they got angry with their dog, in fact they will do anything to avoid the weaves :-( You will also need to teach her what weave means, ie: to do them whether you are there or not. Lots of dogs can't weave without their handler being right there to show them where the entry is. I set up jump weaves in training leave my dog in a wait in front of the jump and then walk past the end of the weaves and then recall him and tell him "weave". He gets them every time, he is the only one in his group that does apart from my trainers dog. :-) You could also try giving her a break and missing training with her one week, it really makes a difference, don't pick a week when you have a show though :-p

<<<waves at claire >>>

Ana, do you have access to training/channel weaves? My youngster is learning on them at the moment and after 5/6 session with them he goes through them without the sides on set at six inches apart. (this happened by accident when we were clearing away a few times) Also, because they have sides on, they teach the dog to get the correct entry no matter where you are, as well as getting them to run through at speed because you teach them to run through with them open at first and so they get used to going fast before they are closed up.

No, the only weaves I have access to are the 12 upright ones at training, and the 14 lanky cane poles in my garden!

I'm at EMDAC on Sat, so after that I'm gonna reteach the weaves from scratch.

http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/rloftus/weaving.htm

Can I just ask, why are you and colliemad waving at each other?!

Don't ask me, Claire started it ;-)

Don't really know, it's some strange affliction I have. Best be careful, it may be catching... :D

Hi Guys

Whilst on the subject of weaves which way of training ones do you find better 'v' weaves or channel weaves.  I am looking to purchase some and am just considering which ones.

Claire

I haven't a clue, but I would say v :)

Just if you don't have a very high drive dog, don't train them from straight weaves unless you want a fast-popping-out-weaver or a slow-accuracy-freak-weaver! ;)

I would say channel. Right from the start you can teach speed, you can teach the dog to enter at angles, and you can do sendaways through the weaves, recalls through the weaves and running past the weaves. I'm not actually that keen on V weaves (altho I have a set myself <g> )as I taught my senior collie to weave on them and it took him about 2 years to grasp the idea that the idea was to get the entry, and then to stay in them and do the last 2! My youngster was trained on channel weaves and has fantastic weaves. (Also trained her on '3' weaves so taught her entry first, shes great at the courses set abroad with difficult weave entries!)

I trained my fast VERY driven dog on upright weaves, he had no respect for V weaves and once he realised they moved he just flattened them. He has very fast and accurate weaves as he is obsessed with them. I tried him on channel weaves and he was much better on them but at the time I couldn't afford a set. I have sold my V weaves and am going to buy some channel ones to use for my pup when he is old enough. If your dog is fast and enthusiastic then I would suggest channel weaves as I know of several other people that had the same problem. The cheapest manufacturer I have found for the channel ones is RVA and their equipment is excellent quality too :-)

thanks colliemad.  I have just been looking on the net for a set of 'v' weaves as that is what we currently train on at the club.  Jessejumps.com are doing them for about £30.00 which is a fantastic price so I am going purchase a set from them.  They also do the channel weaves as well.

Claire

we have some makeshift channels at club, worked with harv, and some of the others, but a lot of dogs didnt like having stuff rub on their sides, and a few were really freaked out by it, so we changed to the v weaves, which if you get tim to show you megs weaves on thursday, she averages now 12 upright weaves in competition and training at 2.6 secs, so im all for the v's!!! zig was taught on upright, feeding her through, and then on the channels, and more recently to try and get her faster on slightly angled v's...... she was really slow in the weaves, but is now better,

re.contacts, we teach the stop postion, before going on equipment, as we  like to 2 feet on 2 feet off type position, we teach on a low step or bottom stair etc etc, until they are happy with the position anywhere at all, then move it to the bottom of the equipment ( still not doing the whole thing) when they have a solid position and release (we like to release to a toy) then we work on drive over the equipment, usually with a toy at the very end where the stop will be and play tug with them while still int he stop, they realise its a nice place to be as they get a good play there!!!

its worked for us so far!

chel
ps, terra, the new pup is dreaming away by my feet...ahh bless!

Chel, that method of training contacts is called back-training and it is very effective. Even dogs who already do contact equipment can benefit from it. I am training my latest dog that way and we started on the stairs! He now runs down the slope and stops on the end no matter where I am. It will still be a while yet before he does the whole thing though! ;-)

back-chaining :)

What's back-chaining?

Back chaining is training the end first, and then taking it back in little steps till you're at the start.

So if you had 4 jumps in a line and you were training the dog to work ahead of you, instead of starting at jump 1, you would start the dog at jump 4... when he is comfortable doing jump 4, you would make him do jump 3, jump 4.... then jump 2, jump 3, jump 4 etc...
That way the dog already knows how to do the last few jumps and is more likely to go on ahead, rather than starting him at jump 1 and expecting him to know where to go.

Oh I see, same as we do but we call it back-TRaining. Don't know why the different name but same result. :-)

The way Ziggy went through the weaves yesterday it shows it is working.  Now I have seen that 'v' weaves are cheap on jessejumps they will be on order as soon as I get paid on Thursday - being a pauper and all that! 

Still struggling with KC names for JC.  Have come up with one so far: Black and White Sprite; three to go.

What breed is Jc and what does he look like??
I'm no good with names, but I'm sure someone will help you on here

He's a border collie, smooth haired with satellite ears.  We rescued him as he was going to be drowned on the farm because no one wanted him.  He is black and white and not a bulky looking dog at all.  He gets called anything from Jc, to skinny rib to little man to fox.  I have come up with one name, Black and White Sprite.  A sprite being a mischevious little elf creatue which probably sums him up but for the form I have to come up with four.  My head is aching already!

Black and white sprite is good. You don't HAVE to come up with 4 names, they just say that incase the first name you choose is taken already. Was he the little collie advertised on agilitynet that was going to be drowned??

Little sprite man
Little man the sprite
JC skinny rib sprite
Foxy spriteman
Mischevious little elf man

Chances are you'll probably get your first name anyway.. haven't heard anyone called that yet!!