Luke now loves ringcraft and last night there were other dogs who were very noisy - but not him :D :D :D. However, he is still hopeless at standing properly - when all the dogs stand together he stands for a while but not in the same place lol....then he sits down or lies down, usually just as the judge arrives...:-(.Also when he's being seen individually he's equally wiggly. The judge said it's probably because we've done obedience (!) that he's prone to sit down. I can keep him standing by luring with treats, but not for long. Do I just need to persevere with practising stand stays?

the luring with treats is waht we call baiting, and is the way we keep inattentive greedy dogs minds on what we want them to do in the showring.

When showing proper the trick is to learn when you can let your dog relax and when the judge is likely to be looking to keep them attentive and on their toes.  No dog can look that way indefinately.  If he is a puppy just ask for the behaviour again and be pleased.  Often the sitting is due tro boredom or not knowing what you want from them next. 

Sadly many people when their train their dogs ask for a behaviour but don't give a release command.  This often results with a dog that will perform the behavior but stops doing it when it wants to, and if this isn't corrected assumes that you do the behvior for a moment and that is what is required.  If you think about it most of us who don't train for competiton do this???

Try going back to basics....get your dog to stand but only for a few seconds,then treat and praise.Repeat again and again over a few days and then gradually increase the time.As Brainless says give your dog a release command when you finish the stand....and he will soon learn to wait for the command since that will mean he gets a treat.If your dog is only a pup don't worry....as with children a pups concentration span is limited but will improve with age
Archer 

An 18month old pup and he's enormous!!

Still go back to basics.Ask for a stand for 2-3 seconds,release and praise.Gradually increase the length of time
Archer

I cannot see why doing obedience would make your dog sit when you tell him to stand !Ii have dual trained dogs & they are actually better at free standing than some dogs that have only been trained in breed

It is important to teach a stand command & when doing your daily training it is worth teaching the stand at the end of heelwork & at the start to get the idea into his head that he has to stand then walk then stand again & gradually increase the time he is in the stand position bit by bit & only reward when he is standing

I use treats & toys to keep my dogs interest

I cannot see why doing obedience would make your dog sit when you tell him to stand!

Maybe because when you do a recall in obedience the dog comes and sits in front of you? For a young pup I would assume this could easily confuse them (or they try and pre-empt what you want and if they do a lot of sit work then they will sit as a matter of course?) - I tend to only get my dogs to stand in front of me and when I do a recall at obedience, I get them to finish with a stand as oppose to a sit. I still train them to sit beside me though.

To get him to stand - I agree with the others, take it back to basics and then build up the length of time you ask him to stand for. My youngest is ok(ish) at standing but fidgets and sometimes sits when the judge goes over him :rolleyes:

I've never had that problem in the last 40 odd years of doing breed & obedience with the same dogs Maybe because I teach each part of ringcraft & obedience separately so the command Stand means just that in both obedience & breed & to get a dog to stand I always walk into the dog & not pulling or stacking the dog into a stand especially with Cavaliers as stacking on the floor is a mega No No here in the UK

It was only a suggestion as to why that might be the reason :) I also step forwards towards my dogs to get them to stand in the correct position when doing ringcraft (if they're standing from a recall, they postion themselves in front of me, but that is only for a few seconds  before they finish), I never have bothered with stacking and I rarely show anyway.

Whilst this topic is open i would like to ask a few things?
I will be starting basic obediance with my 14 week old RR bitch in 2 weeks, and in around 5-6 weeks time ill also be starting ringcraft as im hoping we can try the show scene. I have a 3 yr old RR male who has completed he CGC at bronze silver and gold and is very good, although at training he would either lay down or sit whilst waiting, hes very obedient at home and will always sit as what was expected of him, he wont be shown as he has a kink in the tail but are looking into obedience and agility. Going on past experience, with the pup should i not use the sit in obedience as to favour the stand for ringcraft?? What are your suggestions i would love to hear them?
Jodi

I always do a stand until the puppy has a full grasp of free standing & I train  it as I would do it in the ring ie when the rest of the class halt I step into towards the middle & get the puppy to face me, this has worked for me for 40 odd years so if it works I don't change it(this was for GSDs(shock horror ;)), Bearded collies(yes free standing ones)BC's, Cardi Corgis, Rough Collies & Shelties(the last three breeds were trained for friends))

Doing it this way means the puppy doesn't get confused when I strat obedience as I obviously don't step towards the middle doing obedience. I must add I do practice at home as well

I agree with Moonmaiden there is no reason why dogs cannot do ANY discipline as well as showing. If a dog sits rather than stands that has nothing to do with doing two or more disciplines simultaneously it just reflects poor training.

There are many dogs that compete as gundogs, in working trials, agility, obedience, schutzhund AND show very successfully. 

If you have trained a dog to stand and it understands that command then it should not sit and vice versa..................

:-( :-( :-( "reflects poor training." Well I've worked really hard with this dog - obviously to no avail then. Dog owning these days seems to be like being a parent - guaranteed to make you feel guilty and inadequate whatever you do....sob....( and my kids are in their 30s.......;-) )

Hi,
I did obedience, agility and WT with my GSD before I started any showing.  I did find it difficult at the start to stop her from sitting down (after all, she'd been taught to sit everytime I stopped!!).  I did finally get over this by doing a "stand stay" after she'd been walked into position, but it did take me a while to suss out!

Sarah.

At my club and myself with young pups I have prefered to ask for the sits in obedience only in the sit excersise and not when doing heelwork. 

Once they are confident standing then I put sits in with the heelwork (though I only want the basic god behaviour and not intending to do compettion obedience).

It isn't that a pup doesn't know the diference between stand and sit, but that because in Obedience they are asked to sit every tiome they aree stationery, so it becomes an atutomatic action, and then the pup gets upset/looses confidence if the handler corrects it, shows impatience because he got it wrong etc.

Someone who is confident in boith the showring and Obedience ring, has good timing and understading of training can easily do both, as after all the stand and moving on loose lead for the ring are just two extra things to add to the repertoire of other things being learnt.

If you train heelwork correctly the dog never sits unless your feet are together, therefore just stand with your feet apart....... :D

LOL Tohme My show stand command is "Bum up :D" with a step towards the dog if needed ;)