Has anyone noticed that you see more Staffies off of the lead than any other dog (I do anyway!)? I think this is because generally they are 'plodders' and are very docile when out walking (not so much when they are bouncy pups but when they are older). Im not saying that there is anything wrong with letting a dog roam where it is 'safe' but maybe what happens when the dog of a responsible owener turns, is that the owner has innocently under estimated the dogs potential to harm other dogs. Lets face it, any dog can change at any time and its the easiest thing in the world when you have a great dog to sit back and think that this is the way that it will always be, as opposed to constantly being aware of how an animal can change. This always surprises me because when we get out of bed in the morning we are never in the same mood twice so why should a dog be? Like I say though I am not necessarily accusing this sort of person of being irresponsible as I think this sort of behaviour is human nature.

A dog that attacks another dog whether they hurt, maim or kill it is untrustworthy with other animals- whatever the breed. However, an attack which is less severe is forgotten more easily than one which is more serious. If a Staff attacks another dog it is likely to so more serious damage because of its build and muscle power and its these attacks that are not forgotten so easily. This is why Staffies have a bad name. Lets face it you would forget a dog who licked you to death withing 10 minutes of meeting it.

Having said all of this, I find it strange that so many people have opinions on 'Vicious Staffs' and yet they remain one of the most popular breeds in the UK!

Oops what I meant is that if I had not seen at other shows perfectly well behaved dogs and exhibitors and had based my views on the ones I had seen at the Welsh shows I had been to then I would have been put off the breed and it's e3xhibitors.  I haven't because I could see theis was not how the majority are :D 

I think you need to read the post below again Teri-its quite clear and if KC officials are the only ones who do not see what everyone else sees then KC is obviously not showing a reasonable duty of care, not surprising they are not recognised by FCI.

***
The owners never stop them from going for other dogs no matter what the breed.  At the open shows in Wales Staffies are usually scheduled to be in the ring first to get them out of the way!  At one show things got so bad that the rest of us decided that the winning staffie would be the last one left standing in the ring :-(  some of the dogs were actually fighting in the ring!  They are the only breed where I regularly see dogs actually being agressive towards a bitch without provocation. ***

Hi again Davedee,

>then KC is obviously not showing a reasonable duty of care, not surprising they are not recognised by FCI<

No disrespect intended, but if you were more au fait with the bigger picture of dog showing you would realise that there are a number of reasons for which joining the FCI is not acceptable to our KC nor to many UK exhibitors :)

The post you refer to re open shows in a particular location I can't comment on - Wales is just a tad far for me to attend an open show (round trip of about 500-600 miles :P )  However I have been to champ shows nationwide and can't honestly say I've found the situation to be anything like as described.  There are some problems within every breed and genuinely caring breeders do try to address them.

Regards, Teri

:D @ Brainless

I think most of us knew what you meant ;)  I have seen a few in particular areas where exhibitors are inclined to goad their dogs with others - but the same can be said for some other types of Terriers too :(  Thankfully it is the minority and I firmly believe if anyone witnesses this despicable practice at a KC licenced event they should report it.  For eg. if double handling (to non-show goers this is the outside attracting of exhibits) is witnessed by anyone, judging can be held up until such behaviour has ceased - I've seen the show manager or chief steward sit in a ring where that particular behaviour has been complained about and his/her presence was sufficient for it to desist without any individuals being formally reported.

regards, Teri :)  

I know what you mean about Staffies being aggresive at shows and their owners condone this.  I was at Crufts this year with my Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier, so of course our ring was quite close to the Staffies.  I decided to take my dog on a little walk to stop him being bored after being shown.  I walked past a couple of Staffies but kept a very safe distance.  Both dogs lunged at my dog and one took a bite at my dog and ended up with a mouthful of his fur.  I am just so glad that my breed has long hair - if not the Staffie would have had more than hair in his mouth! The appalling thing was that the two owners just laughed.  I was so enraged that I swore and didn't care who heard me.

Jackie

Greggsd
1] I was at Crufts this year
2] The appalling thing was that the two owners just laughed.

Davedee
Well the bad news is that owners of them are not accepting there is a problem with this breed, predictably the nebulus entity known as 'Yobs' were blamed, then another group in one part of the country, now crufts.

There is absolutely no point in blaming this 'sort' or that 'sort' and 'not me'. Anyone reading through this 25 posts (I have not done that just selected that figure of the top of my head) can see there are 2 problems with them.

1. They are bred to fight to kill or die fighting and they are doing just that, no one would be surprised if a collie went after sheep, no one would be surprised if a Lab jumps into water and starts swimming and anyone who knows even the slightest thing about dogs should be surprised that a breed bred to kill or die fighting other dogs does exactly that.

2. Owners are not accepting there is a problem which means it is escalating, 'Yobs' are used as the inevitable, intangible mysterious scapegoat,  so now it seems Crufts is full of jeering Yobs, so much KCs reasonable duty of care, they did not show that on TV. Why do owners want dogs bred for this obvious purpose anyway, theres dozens of non-risk breeds every bit as much a family dog why pick a breed bred to kill other dogs?

Davedee,

I think you make some very valid points in your posts but unfortunately you have a tendency to make sweeping statements too and, as a casual observer, this IMO detracts from the more salient points you address.
One poster comes on referring to two dogs of a breed that at Crufts had entries well into three figures and you turn this around to

>so now it seems Crufts is full of jeering Yobs<

as though the entire Stafford BT entry was behaving in said manner & with irresponsible and disrespectful owners.  I'd be willing to bet that at most canine events worldwide there is a possibility of a similar event occurring in ANY breed of dog.  The points you make about the original purpose of this breed are valid and do explain why less responsibly bred dogs have a greater natural instinct to fight - but as with any working/guarding/fighting breed careful selection of animals carrying the most obvious traits of their original purpose should be selected for *inclusion* OR *exclusion* depending on what is most appropriate for the breeds' role in society *today*.  Regards Teri :)   

Hi Terri
I posted a split to this as its getting away from the original post, link below, its unlikely I will make any further contribution.

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?tid=67313;msg=NewPost

it's not just staffies though, I took my 12 week old pup out for his second ever walk today and there was a bloke with 2 boxers one on a lead & one off. I asked the man if they were ok with puppies, the one on the lead was growling. He said that the one he was holding was not at all friendly. The other dog began to get closer when the man spotted our pup and said he is ok with people but he will hurt your dog.
My husband had our 2 year old niece in his arms and held the dog back by his collar, i picked up the puppy and started walking away. The man just watched as the boxer began to get aggressive with my husband. At this point my husband dragged the dog over to his owner who said cheers and walked off.
The area is for dog walking and recreational use, why would you let an aggressive dog roam off a lead in this sort of place?
p.s. i am not having a go at boxers i am just saying it's not just staffies who are aggressive.