I've just been reading through my new puppys kc registration and have noticed his parents hip scores - sire 5/3, dam 24/14.  The fact that his mums score is high,  does this mean I might have problems later on.  When we got the puppy the breeder assured us that hips had been tested,  and not being very knowledgable assumed it would be okay.  Now I'm worried.  Is this very bad??

Thanks for your thoughts

Having your dog hip scored does not equate to them having GOOD scores.............

You should have asked to see the KC/BVA certificate before purchase and satisfied yourself as to the average for your breed.

However the cause of HD is multi factorial and at least the dogs WERE scored and so a decision on whether or not to breed was based on knowledge, not guesswork.

So it's not all bad?   I guess the fact that the dads scores were okay may counteract the mums scores.  Do you think I may have problems with my puppys hips.  I shall be careful with exercise and feeding and not let him get overweight.  He is definately not going to ever be bred from anyway.

I don't know what your breed is so therefore cannot comment on whether this hip score is good, average or indifferent.

He's a little black Lab, and we've called him Bagsey.  He was sold by his breeder to some people who decided that, after a week or so they couldn't cope with him.  The breeder knew we were waiting for a black dog puppy, so enter Bagsey!!

A hip score of 38 would rate in the category of Moderate Dysplasia in the USA OFA ratings, our BVA scores of 36-50.

Here is the whole chart.
OFA CLASSES            BVA/KC SCORES
                                Total Both Hips

Excellent                    0-4  no > than 3 / hip
Good                         5-10  no > than 6 / hip
Fair                           11-18  no extremes
Borderline                  19-25
Mild Dysplasia             26-35
Moderate Dysplasia      36-50
Severe Dysplasia         51-106

I would certainly have your boy Insured and ensure he has regular but not excessive excersise to build good muscle.  It is also paramount that you do not allow him to ever be overweight.

I would also have him Hip Scored to see what his score is like and then you know and can manage him appropriately to reduce the effects it may have on his quality of life.

I've just found an old post from a year ago that states that the breed average for labradors is 16 - this is both sides combined.  So, the dam has a score of 15, and the sire of 38 - double the average.  Bear in mind this was a year ago, and I suspect it may have gone up by now - labradors are very popular of course, and there are, sadly, countless breedings taking place without hip scores and the like.  Labs are well prominent for having hip problems - one vet once said it was comparable to GSDs, but I don't know how much truth there is to that.

As Brainless said, watch the exercise while he's growing and keep the weight off and you should be fine - remember the dam is below average, so she should (if I get it right) lower the risks to the pups.

It is the Dam that is high and I would question why anyone would breed from such a high score?

Even if the true genetci score was closer to the lower side giving 28 that would still take it into the category of Mild dysplasia (nto just borderline), so even with Dad with a score in the Good range he would be having to make up an awful lot and the average results in the litter would be expected to be 23 (Borderline) and some would be expected to be as Bad as Mums, and a few maybe lower towards Dads. :( :(

The overall outlook for hips for the litter statistically would not seem good.  things may be better if the bitches siblings and ancestors scored well.

His sire is 5/3, dam 24/14

I think the trouble is (as a novice) that when you're told that hips have been tested you kind of expect that all is well.  I now know better.  We have insured the puppy with M&S.  He's going to be switched to Burns to keep him lean and we shall just do our best.

Like you say tohme, at least testing took place, his parents had clear eye tests, there are an alwful lot of people who breed and don't have any tests done at all.  

Be careful, some insurance companies don't cover hereditary conditions. A friend of mine got stung that way, can't remember which company though and it was for hip problems :-(

just be careful with exercise & feeding! at least you know! but id imagine that your attention should have been drawn to that fact!!!!

still, my dog has a score of 21-21=42, & he is totally fit & sound & powerful. his parents had low & below average Hip scores.

I've just checked the grandparents scores, which don't seem so bad ???

sires parents are 4/3 and 5/6

dams parents are 3/3 and 6/5

All eyes tested clear.

So at least his grandparents were good scores, I think.

Thanks everybody, at least I have the information to manage him now.

seems good,sometimes an odd one just pops up. maybe that was the case here.
its not the end of the world by along way! :) what sort of pup is he?

With the grandparents scores I would be hoping that your boy might average out at about 9 :D. 

I would still have him scored with Mum being high, as even if it was a flukish high score it could reflect in her offspring.

A friend of mine has a dog who scored 38 in total and is having to be operated on because he's in so much pain!!  I must admit that I think more has gone on with him than just HD as I know that he was hit by a car and he was a very active puppy and was also fed high protein food even in his junior stage.

I always find this interestng too as I don't know much about this and the breed that I'm in has just in the last couple of years started scoring them.

thats really odd! cos flynn (41 in total) has no stiffness ,no lameness, hes on normal free running exercise. is on no medication but goes swimming once a week, to keep his muscles nice & tight

Just goes to show that you CANNOT necessarily tell the level of HD your dog has by looking at it, as some breeders claim.

I have known dogs with 0:0 scores who walked like cripples and those with diabolical scores that moved well.....................

totally agree tohme

If you were misled by the breeder as to the 'quality' of the parental hips then I'd take it up with them.
Ideally one should only breed from dogs with a score well below the breed mean score. However breeding from a dog with perfect hips doesn't mean the offspring will have perfect hips by any stretch. Also the correlation between hip score & the dog's 'quality of life' with respect to arthritis is similarly not set in stone.
I'd agree with getting your dog insured - with a company providing a high level of cover & 'lifelong' cover - and getting the hips xrayed early on if you are worried and possibly scored >12months old; likewise be careful about diet & exercise.

>>Ideally one should only breed from dogs with a score well below the breed mean score.>>

I'd have to disagree with this ral.  If only dogs of well below breed mean are used for breeding then a large proportion of the population is being removed from the gene pool.  The breed mean score will undoubtedly reduced and that will further restrict diversity.  You would end up with a breed with superb hips but the rest of the dog would probably be a mess.

A very good dog of over average hip score could be used on low scoring mates and progeny assessed.  Progeny test (mean score of pregeny) is more reliable than the dog's actual score when evaluating breeding worth.

Julie

<<<<<diabolical scores that moved well>>>>>

got a bitch with the score of 75, she has lovely movement and has won many classes on her movement!  Her problem is shallow hip sockets, that are covered and held in place with muscle.

tohme totally and utterly agree.  The dogs in my breed that have really low scores move terribly, there is one in the show ring who I thought must have a high score because shecould hardly walk, turns out that she has one of the lowest scores in our breed :d  We hven't had any scores as high as 75 thankfully YET !

Are you talking Poms or SWD's here, who's low scored dog moves terribly ????????