Hi All,

We are looking at rescuing a dog, as we all ready have a bitch. Anyway I was on the phone to the rescue, and I said our bitch was crated. She went mad on the phone, and told me she thinks its disgraceful.

Yet our bitch will go in there no problem, and the breeders told us to use one.

Do you think its right to use crates?? I thought it was ok.

i dont think theres anything wrong with crates,as long as;
they are big enough
they arent used as a punishment
they are introduced properally
the dog isnt stuck in there for hours on end
isnt used as an excuse to not house train

otherwise they are a god send at times!!!

I agree Michelle I have two crates an extra large (big enough for two) and a med size they are my Beardies beds which they love, never used for punishment they often get in the large cage together for a snooze!!

Roni

Some people think they are cruel though. Last year we went out for the day to Windermere we only had 1 Beardie at the time and she suffered from car sickness until as I have mentioned in another thread we put her in her crate covered with the windows open not a very hot day I might add, we had a wonderful day out went back to the car with a very tired beardie and someone had put a massive notice on our windscreen saying Ba****ds because of the crate in the boot of the jeep.

I use a crate...wouldn't be without it.Don't feel bad...you're doing nothing wrong.If more people used crates less dogs would be in rescue for destructive behaviour
Archer

We use crates our dogs love em thats their litle den that we can't get into!!!

You should get bigger crates then blondiflops, I climb into my dogs crate just for some peace and quiet :D :D

I would ring back and tell her what we have all said !
I should imagine lots of dogs get re-homed because of destructive behaviour like archer said.
Maybe she was new !!

sarah
x

I dont like them and would never use one, I have always thought they were cruel and have voiced this opinion on the forum.Why would anyone put a dog in a crate for any reason. I'm not saying a dog should have the run of a house but our Staff has a large double bedroom to herself and that is only for the occasional time she is left on her own. She has never chewed or destroyed anything that is in the bedroom, inc computer and leads, wardrobe, sofa bed etc.Otherwise where we are she is

Do you never take your dogs away with you.  I have an open crate in the kitchen (never got around to folding it when the last litter were using it as their bed attached to puppy pen).  It is used as one of the dogs indoor beds. 

Whgen at shows, or staying in hotels Crates are invaluable when you have more than one dog with you, or require your hands free. 

In hotels it means that staff can safely go about their business, and the dogs are safe from accientally being let out of your room.  I am then able to go down and have my breakfast without worrrying that the dogs might soil or damage the hotel accomodations (even though they are past the chewing stage, and aren't into marking behaviour being bitches).

They can of course be abused, but are very useful especially for safety in the car.

we either go abroad or stay in cottages and never have had a problem with leaving her in the room, but that only happens in this country, when we are abroad they welcome her at the restaurant so there is no need to leave her

Its great your dogs do not chew anything, but this isnt the case for many other pups, whats the point in taking a risk? one moment of chewing through a tasty looking wire and they are dead! Better to be safe than sorry. As long as the dog has plenty of room to move around and change positions there is really no difference if they are in a crate to outside one. My dog will sleep in the same spot for hours.

I 6take my five with me most places that dogs can go bit there are times where they simply can't.  I tie them up on Pub gardens while I have a meal, but there are times when you will need them safe when not in your own home, and I think it only responsible and caring not to leave them loose in someone elses property.

Hi I agree with the majority of the posters here that crates are very usefull and as long as used in the right way they are in no way cruel, I used mine to specifically to avoid destructive behavior because a newfie in chewing mode could go through a wall in a couple of hours if she wanted to and for her safety (electrical leads ect) and my peace of mind it was the best decision I ever made.

Nikki

Coleystaff, do you know what a contented dog looks like :) I bet we all do don't we.  I'm sure the odd dog does not take to them, although sometimes I think it is from a self fulfilling prophesy of their owner's not expecting them to, but most find them very comforting and secure.  Certainly you only have to see how they dive in to them as soon as you put one up to know that they love their dens :)

My dogs LOVE their crate - I have two more or less permanently up in the kitchen with the doors open and they all vie with each other to get in first :). My two youngsters sleep in them all night even though the door is not closed and they could choose to sleep on the  sofa. You have been very lucky not to have a destructive dog - most of ours will chew if allowed when they were pups and as others have said this could be potentially fatal.

As for travelling in the car without a crate - I would never even contemplate this now

Yvonne

My BC who died last year used to sneak into the cavalier's crates(the next to smallest size of crate so they are small)at every opportunity & he even turned round & used to fall asleep despite the crate being less than half of the size a crate for a BC should be & cavaliers have the option of being in or out of the crate & nearly always all get in one & sleep

I know of dogs whose lives have been saved in car accidents because they were crated & also I know of dogs who have died because they have been loose in the car or on a harness in a car accident.

They are a boon to new puppy owners as you know your puppy will not be at risk if you have to pop out for a while & when you go to sleep  plus in the event of the dog having to go to the vets they will not be overly stressed by being a crate there.

They can be abused but also leaving a dog loose in the house alone could mean the dog dies if it chews electric cable etc.

They are no more cruel than a collar & lead & if you have never had a dog that has chewed you are very very lucky !

Have to admit that in 47 years of dog ownership, I have never used a crate; until Tia and Bailey arrived on the scene, pups of 2day age difference. For their safety at night, a crate was introduced. and they only slept in there at night, as they got older they went in and out as they pleased.  I also found that the older dogs were using it and were disgruntled when the pups climbed in beside them. so another 3 crates were brought in, each in different rooms.  I have a massive 48" crate in the kitchen, which hold 3 labs very comfortably,  and on occassion have found 5 labs all piled in on top of each other :) Bailey & Tia no longer use their crates at night, but when I shout bedtime, Tia occasionaly climbs in with Summer and Ellie. Sometimes I 'lose' my dogs in the house and on looking in other rooms, have found one or two curled up in a crate, their choice, their comfort, their sanctuary. My peace of mind.

Our crate is an absolute godsend and we wouldn't be without it now, first Chloe, then Kayla and now Idõ have all made use of it(and the girls now go in it to get away from Idõ if he's getting a bit too much for them!). We take it to shows and also if I take the dogs somewhere(such as a relatives) where they may need to be contained for a period of time.

Idõ has his lovely cozy bed in the crate and he has slept in it at night since we got him(well actually the first few weeks he slept in a box beside me on the settee)and we never had any problems with him, it has a blanket over it so its like a den but he can still feel part of the family when he is in it. We usually phase it out when they are getting to a year old, or when we feel they can be trusted a bit more but we still keep it, albeit folded, about as I think they are very useful tools.

Of course they can be cruel if not used correctly, but a bit of common sense, ie if you have popped out for an hour, you get back and let pup out DON'T just put him straight back in, thats unfair IMO, but we think they are great and I certainly will be using a crate with any future puppies I have :)

Emily

I didn't use crates until my last puppy.  It was hard work to get him used to it initially but now he loves it.  And our older dachsie went straight into it and slept.  At Crufts we used it to give him security and one woman laughed at him sound asleep legs in the air!!!

I have one crate, for benching and security at shows.  I have to keep it folded at home - its the only thing my dogs ever have a grumble over, one wants to share and the other isn't so sure, might want to, might not  :rolleyes: :D :D

This is probably a very silly question but what are crates used for? I know people use them for when they are transporting their dogs but are they used for when you go out and have to leave the dog at home too? I have been lucky as I have a fairly compact kitchen and Sox feels safe in their and touch wood has not showed signs of destruction....yet!!

From what I do know of them I dont think that theres anything wrong with using them as all of the books I have read reccommend crate training. Who knows I may need one some day!

They are used to safely contain your dog when necessary.  Often used as a dogs den/bed.  As has been said used for travelling and visiting,a nd some peo;lle use them at night to contain their dog safely.

I would never be without one my dogs love them ,it`s there own little den, i still have one up for my 2 year old, dont close the door anymore, and if she didnot like it  she would not go in.
I will always advise new puppy owners to buy one.

JACKIE

My dogs love their crates, sleep in them at night with the doors open, usually waken in the night to find one of them on the bed snuggling in.  they sleep in there when I go out as well.

I am surprised that a rescue organisation would object to the use of a crate.  One of the most important aspects of rescue is the safety of the rescue animal.  There is also a rehabilitatin factor which may or may not involve crating.  If I understand it you advised your chosend rescue that you crated your present dog.  Were you asked if you crated the dog or did you volunteer the information.  Were you asked if you would crate a rescue dog and if so did they want to know under what circumstances you would crate the dog. 

My Beardies are settled and happy in their crates at shows and feel safe enough to sleep in them between classes.  My largest dog also gets into the smallest crate when I have a friends dog to stay (doors left open)  In fact given the choice he can get into the smallest place and disappear when he wants to.

You are doing a very noble thing trying to rescue a dog, but if your breed rescue is not what you hoped for, perhaps the local RSPCA may have just what you are looking for.  Be prepared to be veted by them and expect a home visit.

Good luck with your search. 

At a guess, I would say that the rescue person may have come across dogs crated all day, whilst owner was at work - which does amount to cruelty.

No reason though why they shouldn't accept that many dogs and owners work very happily with crates as part of their lives.

My dog uses her crate but it's up to her where and when, pretty much.

Lindsay
x

if introduced properally dogs will just use them as a bed wont they?
i have seen them abused though.
a lab in such a short cage that its taught her to sit funny.
dogs caged allday when owners are out
this just isnt on at all

I take all the comments on board and yes perhaps with Giorgia we are lucky because she has never chewed but nothing will persuade me that crates are not cruel when first used. Surely a dog will get used to anything and once they have them as part of their life they will use them but in the beginning to put an animal in a crate is cruel !! and yes I'm sure as Michelle says they are abused by some

i never had need to use one until nell hurt her leg badly at 2yrs old & needed cage rest. god how i wished id introduced one as a pup!!! anyway so when i got flynn he was intorduced as a little baby & used it for a few months. its not in the house now but he still lies where it was & eats his dinner there

We have a huge 48" crate for our pups we've had it from the beginning and they have always loved it, when first introduced they went in there together to get some peace and quiet from the rest of the house, the door was never locked they alwasy went in there by choice as it was dark (covered with blanket) cozy and quiet. They adore it, as I said its like their own special room!

I never used one until I was at a dog show with one dog and found you weren't allowed to take the dog to where the loos were, and I needed the loo!  I hgad to ask a complete stranger who wasn't busy with a dog of their own (job to findone sometimes) to hold her so I could go and pee.

When I started showing two it became a necessity, as it wasn't fair to ask people to hold one while I was in teh ring with the other, and there is so rarely anywhere to tie the dog.  I did buy a limpet suction pad to attach one to, but rarely found a smooth surface in the venues to anchor it to safely.  that is when I got the crtate, and both were adults by then.

Have never used it closed at home, yet the dogs have no objection to being shut in it at shows, as I am sat by them or just in the ring.  After they got used to it I went on a trip away with them and found it such a boon.

I now use one of the Canvas ones that is big enough to put 3 of my dogs in, and they are happy in it, as aqre my freinds dogs who were not used to being crated.

I dont mind crates as long as the door was left open constantly,so the dog can come and go as they please and use it as their "den"! I dont like it when people lock their dogs in them and use them as babysitters :(

I must admit i would not sell my pups to someone who was planning to crate them,there is too much room for abuse,some folk see locking up a dog for 8+ hours a day while they go to work as just fine and normal!

I have had dogs constantly for 20+ years,most of them from pupdom and i have never used a crate,never felt the need to either :) The kitchen does a fine job if i have to go out for a wee while,this way they have room to move if they want.

I can't se your logic there???  All pups are contained when they are small, first in a whelping box, then in a puppy pen (no more than a crate without a lid) and then maybe a dog run in the garden, or the garden boundaries themselves.  A dog doesn't like the lead at first as it restricts it's freedom to move, and there are dogs that are lucky to live in an environment where they never need a lead on, but to my mind it is cruel not to lead train them as there will come a time when it will be needed.

I have come across three adult dogs that had never been lead trained and they were very upset by having to have one on.  One was a collie, but the other two were Great Danes!!! 

The Danes had lived on a country Estate, but due to owners change of circumstances they had to move to a suburban house.  Don't know how things turned out for them as they didn't continue trying to train them at class.

Brainless what do you class as lead trained?  The only time my dogs ever have a lead on is when we go to the vets,i dont walk them near main roads so dont have put them on when we go for a walk :)

Well your lucky frodo, not everyone can do that...

My point exactly.  Now if you suddenly had to move to a town and lived on the main road on a Bus route like mine, how would your dog cope.  Surely you have socialised them to heavy traiffic etc, and this can only be done on lead???

I take my dogs on trains, buses to school, pups, errands, not just to the park, they basically come everywhere where they are not specifically banned. :D

>Now if you suddenly had to move to a town and lived on the main road on a Bus route like mine, how would your dog cope<

I do live in a town near a main road,which is why i drive my dogs to their walks :p :D

Neither them nor i enjoy walking near the loud,smoggy traffic,it is to nerve racking,for me anyway!

They accept leads perfectly well,but if i dont have to use them ,then i wont.My dogs enjoy free running much more than walking on the side of a busy road strung up on a lead. I appreciate not everyone can let their dogs off lead or have a place to do do it in.But if i had a choice of taking my dogs to the field or walking along a busy road then i would choose the former every time,wouldnt anyone ?

As I havent bred and dont intend to I dont know what a whelping box is but surely the use of a puppy pen is different to the use of a crate. Its common sense that the use of a puppy pen is for the safety of the pup who perhaps cant see properly and really could hurt themselves if left in a large area. As for dog runs I dont know we dont have one as Giorgia goes out the garden for toilet and perhaps a play with the ball with us but we dont leave her on her own very much. Our garden is large and in relation to her size could not be compared with a crate, thats just trying to justify the use of a crate isnt it?

Coleystaff,

A whelping box is where the mother gives birth to the pups - basically they are born into a large "container" and remain there with mum until fully mobile.  Often the whelping box is surrounded by a puppy pen for when the pups are able to venture out but could still be at risk (chewing electric cables etc).  Basically pups are born and raised in contained areas of some description before they go to their new homes - hence are unlikely to be in the least worried by the use of a crate if introduced and utilised properly :)
If you think about it, wild mammals are also born and raised in contained areas - usually in earths/dens underground or in caves.  There is nothing cruel or remotely unnatural about the concept.

Some very experienced and extremely caring owners have taken the time to explain the point and value of using a crate in specific circumstances - your response comes across as being rather doubtful of their integrity which hopefully was not your intention.  HTH clarify things, Teri 

Coleystaff, I guess if you have never had a dog chew you could not possible understand how fantastic crates actually are, I feel they also help establish a place for the dog and they like to have a place of their own to go lay when they want some time alone, mine also take their bones and treats in to the crate to eat - I have never forced my two to go in to a crate.....they do this on their own accord, therefore how can this be deemed as cruel?  If you have a pet hamster for instance is it cruel to keep him in a cage???

If a cage is used as a safety aspect and not as many others have said as a punishment they can be great.  Coleystaff, have you only ever had one dog?  I have had many and more often than not we have a chewing phase, some don't chew and a sister to Bali has never done this but he loves nothing more than to chew something he should not, therefore he is shut in the crate when I am not there to supervise (at night) and outside during the day.  You are more than welcome to come to my house to see if you think I am treating my dogs cruelly....I am sure you will see they are extremely happy and settled!

I LOVE crates and so do my doggies :)

They also keep your dog safe if you are camping, so can be in the awning or tent safely, while you having a meal or a shower.  You can open the tailgate of your car when you stop for a break when driving so that your freind doesn't get cooked while you go to the loo etc etc etc.

I didnt say you were treating your dogs cruelly, I said I thought the crates were cruel. I have no right to say that to anyone as I wouldnt havent been to their houses Also have you noticed that I havent questioned any poster about their dogs or their dogs lives in any specific way and yet you feel as others have on this thread that you can question me. I am giving my view and I am entitled to it the same as you but that doesnt mean I have the right to grill you, I wouldnt do that, it isnt respectful. I dont want to know how many dogs you have or have had or how big your house is or whether you go on holiday. I expect the same respest that I have given to all of those who have disagreed . As for hamsters, they originally came  from the desert so no I dont agree that they should be in cages but for safety sake, I suppose that is the only way for them to be pets. It always seems that when anyone disagrees witht the majority of the thread they get grilled.

Coleystaff, nobody's grilling you, just answering your question from your first post on this thread: >Why would anyone put a dog in a crate for any reason.

You've been given lots of reasons.
:)

I dont mind the reasons given, but some of the posts have asked dont you take your dogs on holiday, dont your dogs chew, how many dogs have you had. All I said was I thought that crates were cruel, I havent condemned anyone, feeling like it now though. Also I have had two private messages from people who believe it or not are worried about supporting my opinion publicly because of the reception they'll get!

But people are only asking questions, Coleystaff, not grilling you. :) They want to know how your experiences (as valid as their own!) differ from theirs. Personally I've only used a crate a few times - to transport litters of pups for their hearing tests, and also to transport rescue dogs to their new homes (I don't know how much they'd damage my car!).

However, I'm considering getting one of my own for when I help out at unbenched club events and take a dog with me - after all, I can't leave one shut in the car for hours, and then I could have the dog safe nearby. There are honestly lots of reasons why the use of crates is far from cruel. :)

Hope you don't interpret this as 'picking on you' - it's only a discussion, after all!
:)

But you are condemning the use of crates by saying they are cruel. 

I would be interested why you think they are in tehmselves cruel, not when they are abused as any dog equipment can be abused and cause cruelty, collars an leads being classic examples :D

As I have said before I use my crates only wyen no other method is available to achieve the safety or comfort of my dogs.

I do disageree with using them to contein dogs for regular extended periods of time, which seems common practice on the US lists I am on, though many there also are vehemently opposed to dogs being crated for example while owners are at work!

We are not talking of such use here, rather their usefulness as a tool in canine management enabling us to share more of our time and outings with our dogs.

Coleystaff, introduced and used correctly a crate is no different to a dog's bed - in fact that's what the dog uses it as!

My bitches have always whelped in a box with foot-high sides underneath a table surrounded by curtains - a nice dark cosy den. With a blanket over the top a crate is just the same.
:)

But Coleystaff some dogs hate it when you first put a collar and lead on them -do you not persevere in order that they can gain the benefits that will occur once they have got accustomed to wearing them ? ( walks etc :D) or are you suggesting that we should do NOTHING that they object to initially ? - yes most pups do cry when you first put them in their crate but they very quickly get used to it
and the benefits to dog and owner vastly outweigh the initial work involved in getting them used to using them.

Yes some sad folk do abuse the use of crates but then some owners simply abuse the power they have over their pets full stop - used responsibly crates have had a positive contribution to dog ownership.

Yvonne

I have never used crates and never will,i have used play pens for pups when needed for half an hour or so,i also understand rescue for not wanting a dog to be crated as crates are often abused as we all know,i do realise they are a nice den for our dogs but i could not lock the door,

Sheila.

You don't have to, Sheila. Lots of people leave them open.
:)