We have an eight year old Blue Merle Rough Collie dog with persistent digestive problems leading to stomach rumbles, early morning retching and loose bowels. This problem goes away for a time and he eats well; he then appears to go off his food and the "problems" start. We seemed to manage to keep the problem roughly under control until about two to three years ago, until we had a really bad attack where he was passing blood with his stools. Since then we've been feeding him (vet's advice) Hills Prescription Diet Canine i/d (tins + dry mixer) which did him well for a year or more, but since a bad attack late last year, he's been on Waltham's Royal Canin Chicken and Rice plus the Hills dry mixer. This diet went down well for about 6 weeks (although we felt the tins might be a bit rich as his bowels were a bit on the loose side, but manageable). He then started being a reluctant eater again and for the past week his bowels have got worse, until last night he cried to go in the garden and was very loose and retching - this is no fun with a long haired dog! We love Rough Collies, this is our third but they've all had "dodgy digestions" and I wonder if we'll have another!
One of our vets says he has a "gurgly gut", another says he has a food alergy and that we'll have to keep changing his diet in the hope of finding the right one.
Is anybody able to help? Has anybody had similar problems and found a solution?  HELP! Please.

Why not try putting him onto a raw food diet. Raw meat, raw veg and raw bones. It certainly worked for my TT who has digestive problems, as you will see on other posts on the feeding board :)
I haven't looked back since doing it, and I know what you mean about dogs with long coats ;)
There are lots on CD's who will help you get started if you decide to go down that road. It is a bit daunting, especially starting out and giving them that first chicken wing etc. But it is worth it in the end.
Good luck Anne

It might be worth trying Naturediet Lite.  It seems to have good results for dogs with sensitive digestion.
I've had Rough Collies for over 20 years and all have had cast iron stomachs ;), although some lines seem to have a predisposition to colitis. :(

Thanks Val. Do you feed NatureDiet? Our vet has suggested that it could be colitis or an alergic reaction. Which ever, the result is very distressing and unpleasant for us and our dog. We would be interested in knowing which line of Rough Collie you've had; we've had Chateauroux and Lynaire (current). Thanks, we will investigate the Naturediet.

Hi jd9990!  I have fed Naturediet when travelling although at home I tend to feed a mixture of some complete and some raw food over a period of time.
If you click on my name, there is a link to my dogs!!

You could also have a look into the Wafcol Salmon and Potato diet for dogs with sensitive stomachs - I know someone with a Rough Collie who has had very good results with this.

Marina

Hi Val!! :D

David, I've sent you a private message - look top right on your screen!  Or contact me at val@hanvale.com

Many years ago we had a beautiful Rough Collie who had very similar problems. We were recommended by the vet to feed him Chappie but can't say it made much of a difference.
Eventually we settled on Vitalin and fresh chicken. He improved a lot but still suffered the occasional tummy upset. In hindsight I think it was the booster vaccinations which affected him. He had a really bad attack just after a jab and ended up being operated on for a hernia due to the straining. With all his problems though, he was (and still is really) my favourite dog :)

Hope you manage to sort out the problem soon.

Hi - I had the same problem with one of my roughs, initially the vet diagnosed malabsorption problems as he was unable to gain weight. The problem was so bad that when we took him out for a run in the car we had to take a watering can filled with warm soapy water and a towel, (for obvious reasons!!) We started feeding him Hills ID, and it did improve, but he still had intermitten problems of gurgly tummies and refusing to eat.   I then tried him with Hills maintenance which I was feeding my other dog, and he got a lot better.   However, I think the main improvement came from using 'Protect' which was then a new product available from Stock Nutrition - http://www.thepetstore.net - I have recommended this to numerous friends since and they have all had excellent results.   I gave him this permanently for years and not only did he gain weight, but after an initial 'loading' period to get the stuff inside him, had no further problems. 

PS: I now have a youngster 14 months old, who has had a gurgly tummy for two days, so guess I will have to start all over again!!

Julie

Very many thanks to all who responded to our plea for help.

We "chickened" out of trying BARF and after lengthy emails with the advisors at www.naturediet.net and www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk, we went into our local pet shop (which stocked both) and, after a long discussion with the pet shop, came away with a 2kg sack of Burns "Fish and Brown Rice" plus a tub of Dorwest Herbs "Tree Barks Powder".

We've slowly weaned our dog off plain boiled chicken and rice onto the Fish and Brown Rice (about 8 to 10 days). He's now been on it exclusively for about five days and seems to love it! He now comes asking for food morning and evening, which he hasn't done for quite some time. We're now onto our second sack of the Fish and Brown Rice and this morning we tried him on one of the Burns Ocean Bites and, after examining it suspiciously for a few minutes, tucked in with obvious enjoyment.

The number of stools per day has reduced to two or three and are "as they should be"! He has much more energy; his coat has become softer; his nose, which had previously been dry and crusty, is now wet and cold; and I even think he may be more friendly to other dogs when out walking (he was attacked by a pair of Dalmatians when about 18 months old, and has since been very suspicious of black and white dogs - and some others, for no apparent reason). He still hates aeroplanes and barks like fury at any he sees - but what can you do? He barks and they always go away!!

We shall obviously monitor his progress and hope that the improvement continues.

Many thanks again.

Dave

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but Dave, how is your collie?

My Belgian is having very similar problems - I am at the moment attempting a sort of exclusion diet, and she is on Hills and was doing very well, but is now having another spate of colitis, it's so sad.

Back to the vet today, but not sure what they can do for her :(

My next port of call may be Dorwest herbs and tree bark powder. Any advice or thoughts, or shared experiences gratefully received.

Lindsay
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I am rather sceptical of the claim that people make about their dogs/breeds "sensitive" stomachs etc.

I am more of the opinion that digestive problems are triggered by feeding inappropriate diets.  Hence why your dog is doing better on Burns than the very expensive Hills I/D diet et al which is STILL maize based whatever else it does or does not have in it..................

Feeding a species appropriate diet should mean that your dog has no digestive problems.  You can minimise problems by doing this and adding a good probiotic daily or live yoghurt, digestive enzymes and an anti inflammatory such as FBO with Vitamin E, plus garlic as an intestinal antiseptic and Vitamin C.

TBP is good on its own or in live yoghurt, it soothes and inflamed gut but does not CURE problems that are caused by inappropriate feeding.

JMHO

I know several dogs who get colitis if fed raw meat. It happens.

Jeangenie do you have any more info on that at all? You're welcome to PM if you want :)

Lindsay
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Hi Tohme,

I'm very interested in all you have to say because looking through previous threads I can see you have done your research!

I am very keen to get to the bottom of the problem and not just cover it up with tree bark powder or similar. I suspect TBP could be good for temporary soothing after about of colitis, but wouldn't want to be using it all the time.

I have always fed Banya on NatureDiet, and occasional raw tripe, a small amount of brown rice with that, and a variety of what i feel are good foods - sardines, eggs, slivers of apple, dried tripe sticks, dried meat and so on. However, i have also probably fed her some junk and i so hope that has not been the cause of the problem: bu junk, i mean sausage, cheese, mini markies stuffed in to her fun ball, a few Shapes biscuits, bonio, HI Life chew rollers (rawhide, rice, eec additives) and so on.

Looking back, (and isn't hindsight great! :rolleyes:) she did used to nibble/lick her paws in the evening after her meal, but not a huge amount and I often wondered if she was just cleaning them as she is a clean dog.

She also used to be a bit sick some mornings, not that often; but enough to make me get downstairs by 7.30 am to give her 3 small  biscuits which gave her stomach acid something to work on. When she was sick, it was really just bile and she would want to eat grass after and often not come back in for ages, and if she did, often did not want her biscuits but regained her appetite later. She would sometimes eat cheese after this bout, but not usually anything else.

Since being on the Hills, (canned) she had no diarrhoea/colitis, but was very soft on her stools for about 2 weeks, then started to do what are for her normal smalllish firm stools. After about 2 weeks of normality i started to gradually add a few things - sardines, eggs and so on. She was fine and i am afraid i probably then got too confident and gave her her very first fresh marrow bone (a long leg bit) and it may have been too fatty for her, as it gave her an upset tum. Not colitis, but just much looser than normal.

Unfortunately the next day, i left  the kitchen gate open and she ate a chocolate croissant  and since then she has had the colitis back :(

The vet today said she is not overly concerned because she feels i have overdone the adding foods and that may be the problem.

I would like to do a real exclusion diet to actually find out the cause of the problem.
I had IBS for some years and it took an exclusion diet to work out it was coffee causing me to be ill immediately after my main evening meal (even though I had not had coffee with it) so I know how difficult it can be to work out what is causing a problem.
I can now have coffee as a treat and have to use loads of "friendly bacteria" to help my innards as my guts don't seem to be a very friendly place for them (probably too much of the old chocolate croissant! :( ).

However, without being sure, I willl always be on tenterhooks, wondering if keeping her on one diet, or whateve we end up doing, is not right at the end of the day!!!

Tohme, can you go explain a bit more  about the I/D diet preventing molecules from setting  up an allergic response .. that sounds interesting and something I should know about.
I'd be grateful for more info :)

Lindsay
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Hi Lindsay

We now feed Burns Fish and Brown Rice and have had no problems for the past three months (fingers crossed). They also supply treats called Ocean Bites for which our collie goes mad - smell dreadful, hence they have a good resealable pack! Our dogs motion became solid and of a greatly reduced quantity, so he's obviously absorbing a lot more than when fed on Hills i/d. We've only been back to the Vet for his annual booster, so we can certainly recommend this product. We took about two weeks over weening him off the Hills and onto the Burns (gradually reducing the Hills and increasing the Burns) and also used the tree bark powder during weening. We found the Pet Shop to be very helpful - gave us sample packets to try. Also www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk were very helpful and supplied a list of local stockists.
Hope the above is helpful - Good Luck.
Dave

Hi Dave,

Your collie's situation sounded so much like my Banya's, very similar indeed.
I'm really glad to hear your dog is much improved - I am keeping the Burns in mind ;) I believe I know of the Ocean Bites - aren't they dried sand eels or something? INCREDIBLY smelly but don't dogs love them!

Interestingly, my dog had a form of conjunctivis/grass allergy each summer, and we had to give her Fuciderm eye ointment, but that all stopped when we decided to stop giving her boosters. She seems very sensitive bodily wise, whereas my previous Belgians were so very healthy and never went to the vet really.

I'm bearing in mind all you have said, thankyou for taking the time to come back and share your experiences with me :)

Lindsay
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Hi lindsay...
re the ocean bites.... its whole dried blue whiting fish, but Burns have had to change this now as they are becoming difficult to source. Instead it will be a bit more biscuit like but made with the off cuts of fish from the fish and chip shop supplies. I hope they are just as good as my Kai nearly takes my fingers off for his treat of ocean bites :-)
and probably a bit less smelly too :-)

Hi Janeandkai,

I hope they are just as good too, as they may end up being one of my main training treats esp. as they are easy to take on journeys etc.
I first came across them helping at a class, and the dogs went wild for them ;)

(Down side was that the whole hall smelled and it took ages for me to get the smell from my hands <g>).

Lindsay
X

Hi Lindsay,

Sorry to read Banya is still having tummy troubles :(  Has your vet run any specific tests on her?  Blood, faeces, urine?   I'm no great believer in the term *colitis* being continually used for what is often a non-diagnosed problem that has a reason behind if they investigate the correct sources and rule out things bit by bit - such as it appears you may have been progressing with in the trial exclusion diet (although I'm with Tohme on that - Hills is certainly not one I'd use because of the cereal content :(  But then I'm no fan of any grains as bulking agents for problematic digestive systems.

best wishes, Teri :)

Hi Teri

The vet hasn't run any tests yet - she said if this carries on, that will be the next step. At the moment she's backing me up on the exclusion diet idea.
I did take in a stool sample but she wasn't too worried about it and said it would cost £40 for a lab test and she had a feeling it wasn't worth it just at this point.

Banya is in fact very much better, from yesterday late morning, I kept expecting her to want to rush out, but it seems she has settled again, and we all had a good night, so the vet may have been right. She did take her temperature and said she is very pleased with Banya's general condition and demeanour. If things can't get sorted out the way i am going, I will want bloods etc done because it could be an enzyme deficiency or some other problem -hope not!

If i understand things aright, the Hills may still contain the problematic ingredient, but it's not likely to show itself in an allergic or intolerant response. If that's the case, I will be looking at doing something more simple for Banya.

With the NatureDiet, it's good quality and the only "unnatural"  ingredient i can see is brown rice.  It's possible the paw nibbling was due to something else in her diet and not the NatureDiet, because I know things don't always show at the expected times. But of course, her diet varied from day to day, except for the NatureDiet so I'm not sure what to make of that   I'll have to think about that more. She probably did have wheat and all sorts in her stuffed kong, for instance. I know with people, intolerances can be removed and the problem still be showing up a few weeks later (as happened with me and coffee!).

:) Lindsay
X

Hi Dave,

Glad your boy's improved so much - long may it continue :)  Regards, Teri

good afternoon to all,i have two blue merle 7mth old dogs and the one always had a digestive problem,we tried different foods but none worked so i tried vitalin gold menu since beng on this he is so much better no more problems its a good dry food contains everything they need and im sticking to this one hope you find the right food good luck

Hallo Jenniffer, thanks for the good wishes, glad your dog is doing well now :)

Lindsay
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please let us know how your dog gets on oh and by the way whats his name my two are called shiloh and cheyanneanne

Will do Jenniffer; my girl's name is Banya :)

Lindsay
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good evening lindsay thanks for getting back to me about your dogs name,i think it's a fantastic name you have given her and i bet banya is a beautiful blue merle

Anyone with skin and digestive problem dogs pleeeeease try Burns. Had terrible troubl with my akita, he was itching and his coat falling out. Since on Burns all this is just past. He eats well, looks fab and a happy chappy. Talk to their advisers, visit the site or just your local pet shop will be able to give you advise. Seeing is believing, and now I believe in Burns. Oh yes, another useful advise, research the origin of your dog to see what it was supposed to eat in its native country. Like akitas were fed a diet mainly based on fish and rice. So that is what he is getting and hey presto, no more visits to the vet, jabs, blood testing etc. And just because your vet does not recommend something it does not mean its not right. They make a living from our visits. If all of our dogs were eating the right food these visits would be reduced greatly. I don't even want to say numbers but i think it would be shocking. Also, there are well over a hundred different breed of dogs, the vet may not be expert in yours, so your best bet is to know it yourself how and where your dog is unique to other breeds!

My god, i'm a sad sad person to be on this forum after midnight! off to bed now.

Hi there
Just to say I have had rough collies for several years and have found that some have had these digestive problems. I found a low protein diet worked on the whole, nothing above 18% Protein - EVER!
all the best Gill
Ps Hi Val, i remember you and Hannah from several years back at dog shows
(Sabledale Rough Collies)

WOW now there's a memory!!!  Hannah, that little girl in white ankle socks, is now 27 and an Osteopath in Hertfordshire!! ;)
PS I'm still in touch with Lanteague!!