have just had to witness a staffie at its worst, a neighbours male SBT ripping into a smaller JRT, i felt so helpless my hubby had to go out and break up the fight cos its owners couldnt be bothered there was so much blood, the smaller terrier ran off before i could help
i feel so sad and i hope my babies dont get the blame for this this is what gives staffies a bad name

thats so sad is the jrt ok? it annoys me aswell as a staffy owner that other staffy owners are so irresponsible that they give every staff owner a bad name. these people dont deserve the unconditional love a staffy gives!!

sadly not i dont want to go into details it will need urgent vet care it ran off before i could help.on looking out of my window the staffie is once again walking the streets do i phone the rspca or will the council have an emergency line for the dog warden, it may be a small child next time

the local council should have the local dog wardens phone number but i doubt if anyone is there so i would be inclined to phone the police on there local number and tell them the sitution and they will either come out or they might have the local dog wardens number good luck keep us informed.

I fully agree, what with it being the weekend - use the local police non emergency number, thank goodness there are people like you prepared to report this and not just 'look away'
Take care

ive send hubby out to look for the poor JRT it cant of gone far im on hold with the local police, i have staffies myself so im not one of these totally against staffie people

i know ive seen the pics ther gorgeous but if i had seen that i would be doing the same especially if the dogs roaming round.

the police decided along with the rspca that it was best to take the dog the owners let them. someone had found the injured dog sadly it had died in there garden just astreet away, the rspca man took it with him.

Oh how awful, the poor JRT. I hope the Staffies owners get punished. It's such a shame that the breed have become a fashion accessory for a certain type of thug. In the right hands staffies are so loving and gentle.

Diverging a bit, is it true stafs are now the most popular breeed and that the majority have no pedigree? if thats true does anyone know here these 'figures' and suggstions come from? I mean how can anyone know most are non-registered pedigrees, if thats true. Terrible story but not uncommon in cities, more uncommon for the police to bother though, glad I never saw it.

I suppose they could extrapolate the figures from surveys of pet owners or vets perhaps.

Hi - I have been tied up with new puppy so have just read this thread.  I cannot imagine how seeing this made you feel.  As responsible and loving dog owners, to have to witness something so horrific is just too awful.  Fortunately, you are strong and will get over it.  Unfortunately, thanks to totally irresponsible SBT owners, the injured and now dead JRT cannot.  Run free at the bridge baby. :(

If you look in the local papers you will see quite often
'Staffie pups no papers'

I think some of these may not be pure staffs :-( as 1 litter I phoned about (I enquired what colour 'buck skin' was & why it was £1000.00)

I was sure the dad of the pups was not pure bred.

I have also seen lots of 'staffies' that look nothing like a staffie.

Unfortunatly some staffies are not dog friendly, but the owners should be more responsible & certainly not let them (or any dog) just roam.

Poor little JRT, brings tears to my eyes :-(

Jo
xxx

This is terrible the poor little dog. Your right it gives good responsible Staffy owners a name. I have a real soft spot for Staffys raised in the right way. But Im always weary when I see 1 as you dont know the way the dogs been raised. It shouldnt have to be like this. The owners of this dog should be punished. 

This makes me so sad, im so glad you have reported it...would hate the thought of it roaming the streets as you say it could be a child next time!

I dont own a staffie but i have dogue de bordeaux and have to be careful as they are very large and people are wary of them, especially whilst i am walking them off lead but they are so gentle.

My friend has a staffie and its beautiful...it sleeps with her kids and everything...they are supposed to be one of the best breeds of dog.

Just as a side issue and not taking anything away from the horror of the situation.
A dog that is dog aggressive does not mean that it is likely to be people aggresive.  Many breeds have a low tolerance level to to other dogs, and especially the same sex.

It is wrong that the Staffy is allowed to roam, but the owner of the JRT is just as much to blame for allowing their dog to roam.  Many JRT's are as dog aggressive as any SBT, and who knows who started the fight, we only know who the victor was.

how awful,i know how you feel cos ive seen bad staff attacks myself. not nice

My dog was attacked by a SBT that ran out of house adjacent to the one I was making a PAT visit to.

When I kicked this dog away I was met with a great deal of verbal abuse and threatening language by the owner who I reported to the police and the Dog Warden.

Let me make it clear I am not tarring all SBTs with the same brush I know many lovely examples of the breed, however I DO object to out of control dogs of ANY breed especially if they attack a dog with exemplary character.

As I said to the owner, if the dog was under control I would not have been able to kick it.

Why do some dog owners, like some parents, ignore the failings of their pets/offspring and fail accept responsibility for their actions?

Interestingly there was a letter to this  effect in Your Dog by Carol Price, suggesting that in some ways the lack of willingness to accept responsibility is shocking but almost a sign of the times in a society where very few want to accept responsibility for anything .

Lindsay
X

What happens to the staffy now?.........thats a scarey thought, the dog was in the wrong but how is it to know..it's probably only doing what it has been taught to do or as it has done in the past. i'm not trying to defend what this dog did i just can't help but feel sorry for it and wonder what is going to become it because of it's owners ignorance.

You know what makes me sick, people who let there dog roam the streets and they don't get stolen but people who take care of there pets do!!!!!!

If you go to www.doglost.co.uk you'll see all the stories for yourself, one old lady was carrying her dog in Kent and 2 youths came along and took the dog from her, now she has been left heart broken and the old lady and her grandaughter will appear on the This Morning show tomorrow (Tuesday 12th April)

Run free little man (jr terrier)

Poor little jrt
:(

Its a shame that the staffie who did it wasnt bought up better but i guess its the instict thing that kicks in.

Rip little one

Donna and charliex

Wo Justlou you know your going to get a telling off now dont you and your post mentioning ******* will be removed.

That must have been so awful to watch.  I can understand your fear of your babies being blamed but unfortunately, as we are well aware,  that's the price of owning a staffie. It amazes me that people still look at our breed and think the worse. I couldn't wish for a more charismatic, loving breed of dog and I would defy anyone who said otherwise.  I would almost go as far to say that the typical, well cared for staffie is one of the safest breeds to own, OK they have their peculiar little traits that seem exclusive to the breed (like being too friendly!) but this is what makes them ideal family pets.  Stronger laws of prosecution are needed to deal with irresponsbile owners who exploit this wonderful breed to get their kicks, only then can we start to reverse the damaging effects that these idiots are creating.  As they say, punish the deed, not the breed!

Shabbagirl
Stronger laws of prosecution are needed to deal with irresponsbile owners who exploit this wonderful breed to get their kicks, only then can we start to reverse the damaging effects that these idiots are creating.

Davedee
It's not the laws themselves, one part of a possible penality is that an owner of any dog can be banned for life, I don't know the rest of the penalty system for the various dangerous dogs laws.

It is prosecutions which rarely happen in the cities, the police simply do not get involved in what are dog fights, they don't get involved in many of what are known as minor offences.

The manpower involved in catching a 'wandering', owner absent (or refusing to aknowldge knowing the dog) dog would be vast almost certainly no one can catch a dog which does not want to be caught.

Crown prosecution has a budget to make xxx number of prosecutions in total and the cost of prosecuting someone under one of the bits of legislation which exists restricts them from prosecuting AND trying to convict muggers, they dont even come out for burglaries in many areas, you have to go and make a statement at the police station, that is if you have the patience to wait in a que which might take 2 hours.

It is up to owners and genuine lovers of the breed to put social pressure on others to make it difficult for irresponsible owners to own them. On this score, if so called responsible owners stuck together in groups, made statements to the council for frequent incidents of dogs walking offlead or wandering alone and then put pressure on the councils to prosecute under their own by-laws you might get somewhere, it will never happen.

What surprises me about this particular case is that the police actualy came out at all, they have no interest in dog fights, maybe if a couple of human biteing incidents ocure AND the local police can easily identify the dog and owner they might take action. One things for sure, this is a very popular breed, rescues report around a quarter of all their dogs are staffs (DP), some press have been giveing some very bad write ups recently and many ordinary dog owner with non fighting breeds are fed up with staffs.

If the current level of attacks and serious injuries on dogs by staffs carries on, with a riseing population of staffs, the decrease in tolerance of the breed by non fighting dog owners carries on there will almost certainly be moves for legislation on restrictions and make no mistake, newspapers are there to make proffits and if a sensationalist headline sells newspapers then thats what they will do.

Down to owners to form groups in the end.

Are staffs classed as a dangerous breed in the UK, I didn't think they were?  Yes, I favour this breed but not to the detriment of the law.  I was adviced by my local police station that I have no more responsbility than any other dog owner.  ALL dogs, regardless of breed can display agressive behaviour, it is unfortunate that the media seem to fixate on dog attacks by so called 'dangerous dogs'.

I am sure there are irresponsible pug/labrador/spaniel/poodle owners, but do they get the reaction us staff owners get, I very much doubt it (I'm not picking on breeds, just using them as examples).  Any dog, regardless of breed, is only as dangerous as his/her owner allows it to be.

I live near a large area of public common ground and it is very rare to see a staffie being walked so I find your comment about owners of 'non fighting breeds' getting fed up with staffs quite amusing. How many attacks have you witnessed that were instigated by a staffie compared with other breeds?  The reaction I receive is not down to other dog owners getting fed with staffies but mainly down to ignorance of the breed.

Quote from the Domino webiste "Scientific evidence from around the world conclusively demonstrates that factors such as the criminal or social background of the owner is far more significant than the type of dog involved. Of course the newspapers will frequently cite the Pitbull, the Rottweilor or other powerful breed of dog but this is increasingly being proven, after the event, to be something else entirely. Why is this? Simply that the general public's knowledge of 'breeds' is substantially based on what they read in the newspapers".

Yes, staffie owners should make a stand to make the public more aware but at the end of the day why should we have to struggle so much to make the general public accept our choice of family pet.

No staffs are not classed as a dangerous breed and as far as humans are conmcerned they are not, usually very freindly. All dogs behaviour comes under a variety of dangerous dogs legislation.

Its only when one breed persistantly shows cases of a 'specific' behaviour character trait that it can come under scrutiny, critism and potential legislation. E.G. If BC's became a popular pet dog in sheep areas AND that was combined with large numbers of owners not training a reliable recall to a level where they could not recall a BC when it wanted to run off and round up the local sheep ( a very high value reward behaviour for a BC, especialy if tey are farm bred) it would be a specific problem to that breed being owned by pet owners without legal restrictions, such as being off lead at all. Just an example.

its not that shabbagirl. its the damage they can cause.
ive seen two staff attacks on dogs in the past 6months. these WERE not normal dog fights. the staffs were trying to kill the other dog,id bet my life on it.

who on here as actually seen a stafford in a dog fight?

habagirl
ALL dogs, regardless of breed can display agressive behaviour,

Davedee
Your quite right and many dogs of all or any breed can be and very often are a damn nuisance.

The difference is that breeds which were and still are bred for fighting were bred to to fight or die in a fight. The structure and strength of the dog is for that one purpose, but its not just the build and structure which does it, it is the fact that they carry a gene for 'defence' drive fighting and when they start they are in to maim or kill and will maim, cause very serious injury or kill, owners cannot get them off so it must go the whole hog.

If the JR, which started thread, had been attached by a BC or great dane its unlikely much more than a biten ear and a lot of noise would have occured, Staffs are no more or less effeicent at their breed working purpose than a Husky is at their working purpose - transportation from A to B in artic conditions, not just getting fed up half way and refusing to pull any further - or the BC rounding someones sheep up rather than standing looking at sheep and barkin - so with Staffs its the damage they do doing what they were bred for and not because they run up snapping at another dog and nip an ear or back off if it barks back, which most non-fighting breeds do.

i agree with dave!!!!!!!!

Yes we came in at the same time Micheled. I've stayed off another post currently running, but I will guarantee that if the young dog, currently showing rank displays and refusing recall is not trained PROPERLY, as of this minuet, the owner will be posting (or may prefer not to) within 6 months of yet another Staff with aggression problems and maybe some big vets bills.

I think you will also find that staffies will stick up for themselves! but not look for trouble.

My staffie is fine with other dogs unless one starts on her first - my other staffies were also like that.

Staffies also play rough with a lot of noise & what may seem like a fight may just be play IMHO

You should hear mine when she plays with her dog friends - even my hubby hates the noise!!

Jo
xxx

no! not the attacks ive seen. im sorry, but it wasnt like that.

attack one. my dog was on the beach having a sniff around & staff came from NOWHERE,flat out like a bullett,straight for flynn & tryed to get hold of his throat

attack two. staff was been walked in town without lead, saw a dog sitting quietly outside a shop about 20 meters away & just shot off & wouldnt let go.

Sorry I did not meen to imply you did not know :-(

Just some people think they are fighting & they are not which does nothing for their reputation :-(

I am allways on guard around other dogs with mine even though she is usually OK with other dogs - but if a fight does start I know the damage that could be caused.

Like you - I think a lot of it is to do with the owners.

Jo
xxx

oh thats ok!!!!!
god you should see my collies playing,dosent sound or look nice!!!!
so i understand what you mean,just that on the other hand ive seen scary things. :( which was not playing!

the dog from the 2nd attack was owned by a undesirable, but the owner of the dog who went for flynn was just a normal person whose staff was fine till it hit about three then changed, now he cant let it off the lead. it had played with mine as a younger dog more than happily. it was off the lead due to owner taking his eyes of it for 1min while he put hes coat on. his dog usuaLLY OBdentient this time wasnt & didnt wait. luckily flynn ran like hell as oppsed to trying to fight back or be submissive...or i wouldnt like to think. afterewards when we had all calmed down we introduced them (mainly because i didnt want flynny to remeber a scary staff) & it was fine. my piont is,this owner was responsible (genarally) but situations happen. this is why,IM nervous of them. although i try not to be!!!!

i feel that i should respond here i have seen a stafford fighting, i also have been scared to death when a thug let his go 4 ME , the only thing stoping it getting me was the door and frame , and i own 2 staffords .i got these dogs afther my previse meetings with the breed which apart from the above too have been all good  lovely dogs ,i have 3 children in this home with my dogs and my brother also has his kids and dog (stafford)   playing together  .the point is its the OWNER! not the breed YES it is scarey BUT  its the OWNERS responsabilty and duty to train ANY dog from when they first take him/here home.otherwise ALL dogs WILL be unruley! if there is no training! ps i did not  get bitten by any dog on the above mentioned  unlike the JR 1 in my street witch bit my leg when i had no dog with me  (would it of happend if my dogs had been there with me. (this is my first post im not a big poster/spamer lol ) but i do think all u guys r cool and very helpfull to all peops. thanks dave

Welcome Dave, how I agree. 

It is the owners that need to train the dogs. 

Some of the problem in families that I have met who own the breed is the very good nature the dogs have with people.  This lulls the naive owners into a false sense of security regarding the need to heavily socialise and train them around other dogs to minimise the opportunity of them getting their dander up. 

Of course the thug element want their dogs aggresive for the machismo. :(

i agree that they are lovely dogs, lovely with people & kids & some are really good with other dogs. however please no one underestimate how much damage they can do if they are dog aggressive

just as grey hounds have great long legs for running..fast. i guess staffs have been bred with powerful jaws for a reason.

despite my posts,i DO like staffs,but there is a problem with a minority of them & their owners. i really hope that others on here do not have to witness the attacks that i have or worse,like the op.

now id not want to tar all staffs with the same brush,BUT if i meet a new one ,untill im sure im going to be cautious.

BRAINLESS you hit the nail on the head! 

But there is also the problem that Staffs are often ENCOURAGED to show aggression towards other dogs - particularly at shows where this kind of 'spark' seems to be a desirable trait amongst Staffy breeders. If folk were truly concerned about the furure of this breed they would be attempting to breed such aggression out rather than rewarding and encouraging it as a breed characteristic.

Viewing inter - dog aggression as intrinsically part of a breed simply encourages those who like to have a 'macho' image to own one - often with disasterous consequences. I  feel that unless breeders sort this out then Staffys WILL become victims to breed specific legislation.

Yvonne

i agree yvonne, surely with such nice tempered staffs that are around,it would not take much to get rid of the "gameness"

Trevor,

I wasn't going to comment on this thread but I too have seen Staffords encouraged to be aggressive at shows :( their owners seem to think it makes them show better but it makes it dangerous if you have to be near them. The owners never stop them from going for other dogs no matter what the breed.  At the open shows in Wales Staffies are usually scheduled to be in the ring first to get them out of the way!  At one show things got so bad that the rest of us decided that the winning staffie would be the last one left standing in the ring :(  some of the dogs were actually fighting in the ring!  They are the only breed where I regularly see dogs actually being agressive towards a bitch without provocation.   All this doesn't do their reputation any good at all :(

I dont go to shows, do you mean KC licensed shows? I think your info is very interesting, can't see why you should hold back on posts.

Yours is a very informative post, KC standards as a breed registration club leave much to be desired, UK pedigree dogs have the worst heridotory health problems in Europe and if fighting is encouraged at its shows then the current trend in dog fighting will become quite respecable, at least at KC standards of respectable.

It is the only breed registration club in Europe which does not impose some hereditary disorder tests before issuing a breeding licence and the only breed registration club in Europe which does not have a working and extensive temperament test for every working breed, just some of the reasons why KC and the Eire KC are the only ones in Europe not recognised by FCI and have no international standing.

Its so called training side of dogs seems questionable as well.

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/65050.html

There is still time for secondary legislation and a few dozen things I have suggests KC should be subject to some regulation, not least compulsory hereditary tests with minimum results before a breeding licence is issued, for some breeds and disorders constituting cruel and inhumane suffering with many of them, everywhere else in Europe has them and this Staff aggression could be bred out quite quickley, its clearly a problem.
.

Hi Davedee,

>Its so called training side of dogs seems questionable as well.<

the thread you refer to is discussing methods employed by a particular training club which has nothing to do with KC recommended practice of HOW dogs should be trained - I'm sure you know "dog trainers" range from excellent, good, mediocre, poor, right through to cruel.  Simply because a club runs a KC Good Citizen Dog test scheme doesn't mean that the KC have approved how the individual trainers will have assisted owners to achieve the standard required - it merely means *they have agreed on what fundamental elements of basic pet dog obedience* need to have been achieved in order for the test to be passed at each level, bronze, silver and gold :)

Hope this clears any confusion.  Regards Teri  

I have shown only a few times in south Wales at Open shows and was told by the people with a large working breed thqat I was with that it was Staff city. 

I saw Staffs and owners behaving rather badly, but had never seen this at some of the other shows where staffs were exhibited in the nWest count4ry and Midlands.  Maybe it is a local thing, but enough to put someone off the breed and those showing them for good.

My all time favourite dogs as a child was my Art teachers rather leggy black and white (collie marked) Stafford, who was my real life model for artwork.

Ive been watching this thread with interest and now as its turned into the usual bash the staffy/owner thread i feel i have to join in

ive shown staffords on and off for nearly 20 years now and in all that time i have never seen anyone activly encourage their dog to be aggresive to another in the ring or out of it
as for dogs actually fighting in the ring......well
again, ive never seen it or even heard of it - but im sure that i would, actually being involved with the breed
but i havent
obviously we go to different shows

if anyone has any genuine concerns about the behaviour of any person with a stafford at a dog show that your at, then go and speak to one of the organisers of that show immediately
then something can be done about it
dont just stand there moaning about it
ill even back you up if i can see happening what you can see happening

Z

Thats a great idea Zigger from what I have read-staffs on or off lead, fighting in the ring, being egged on and so on for all to see to a point where everyone seems to be steering clear.

So a lone person goes up to someone in charge of the show and who in that capacity MUST know about this anyway and the lone person says "Look at that"
'comon get real all the guy is going to say is never saw anything and tell his mates to get the complaint off the wretched show.

I personaly have never mentioned Staff owners and I have not noticed anyone else except some have said 'a few', I would say a lot and from what I have learned tonight here a lot at shows as well as killing JRs.

You say you have watched this post and never posted untill now. I think it's conspicous that have expressed not the slightest suggestion how sorry you are about the JR and how sad you feel for those who had to watch and do something about the spectacle, such things speak miles for themselves. I can well understand why you are immune from feeling anything about JRs getting ripped to peices in the street in front of kids and nervous maybe sick people.

>JRs getting ripped to peices in the street

Let's keep to the facts! The JR was sadly bitten and tragically died later from its injuries. Yes, that's terrible. But it wasn't 'ripped to pieces in the street'.

Just by saying that I'm afraid you've lost all credibility.

This thread appears to have gotten somewhat confused :rolleyes:

>Thats a great idea Zigger from what I have read-staffs on or off lead, fighting in the ring, being egged on and so on for all to see to a point where everyone seems to be steering clear<

As a non-staff owner I treat as I find and can honestly say that the above statement bears little or no relation to how the *majority* of Staffs behave at dog shows or in public exercise areas - so basically good news!  Staffs aren't as black as they're painted - a few yob owners unfortunately are given a higher profile than responsible breeders & owners :(

>So a lone person goes up to someone in charge of the show and who in that capacity MUST know about this anyway<

That's not actually how it works either ;)  A formal complaint can be made to the show secretary and a fee of £35 is paid to lodge an official complaint to the KC.  At any given day at a regular UK Ch show there are likely to be around 2,000 + dogs being exhibited, hence the "someone in charge of the show" is somewhat dependent on information being passed directly to him or her and is duty bound by the KC to record and submit formal complaints.  regards, Teri ;)    

Davedee you can read whatever you like into my posts and draw your own conclusions
whether they be right or wrong is a different matter
not that that will matter to you
i dont think the words "Terrible Story" convey a great deal of regret either to be honest
i also think your version re: what happened is more than a little exagerated

So a lone person goes up to someone in charge of the show and who in that capacity MUST know about this anyway and the lone person says "Look at that"
'comon get real all the guy is going to say is never saw anything and tell his mates to get the complaint off the wretched show.
someone busy trying to run a succesful show wouldnt be as flippant as you make out and would have to take notice and act because that is what they are there for.
And are you also saying that they would not take their duties seriously and would simply get the heavies in to remove people who complained?
I dont think you go to many shows do you...
perhaps thats how you would handle complaints is it ?

Z