I was advised at ringcraft last night to use a spray to stop my dog barking - he's very excited at the start of the class and tends to bark at the first few dogs which come in - after which he settles down and only gives the occasional "woof". I was told if he persisted he'd have to leave, for fear of upsetting the little/younger dogs...has anyone had positive experiences with using this method?

i am certainly no expert but this sounds awful to me...I wait to hear the experienced champdogs people's responses...

We have used it no problem, but when problem coats came where I needed to use water (honest I do use water) on coats I found they ran away.  Insted of a water spray I would either go for clicker training (although never used this myself)(modern method) or using a jiffy lemon full of water as a squirty (older fashiond method).

However I feel asking a dog to leave for a problem is a sign of a bad ringcraft.  At our ringcraft we pride ourself on helping with problem dogs so they become a joy in the ring, unfortantly we might be closing soon :(

I have to say I was quite upset - of course I would have removed the dog if he had been a real nuisance, but he absolutely loves being there, and I'm sure his initial barking is just OTT excitement....but I'm a bit hesitant about returning now....and I suppose listening to myself I do sound like a parent excusing her child's bad behaviour.....

I would also say excitement.  I'm sorry but dogs bark, its a problem at times, but it's a fact, if we banned half the dogs at our ringcraft because they make to much noise we would half the numbers.  Is it possible to try another club?  Untill then keep going to this one with him.  Unfortantly not going will do alot more damage to your dog.  he needs to learn not to bark and to calm down.  How you decided to do this is up to you, I have suggested acouple, I am sure others will suggest more ways.  Once found how you feel comfotable gettingb him to stop barking try it and be consistant.  does he bark at any other times?

Also, always reward him if he is quite.

It's not something I'd do - you don't want him to associate the presence of other dogs with being squirted, or he might start trying to make them go away ...

tried the water spray with mine, bandit thinks it is a game, millie frightened of it , so dont use clicker and treats work better for mine(greedy dogs)

Sounds strange to me that a bit of barking would cause the dog to be removed from class, especially if it's only at the beginning and he's not disruptive during class. 

Unfortantly some people will start up a club thinking its easy.  While ebing invoved with SRC I have seen afew clubs try and work and be competition to us, but fail to suceed.  Many wil think all you have to do is go over a dog and run it up and down, easy? right? oh no, what they fail to see is a good club will help handler and dog to work together and to help the handler get the most out of their dog, and sort out any problems. I just wish more clubs knew how to handle problem dogs, I know alot can and do, most people are happy.

I have a Beardie who used to bark at the beginning of training class because she was so excited .
As we are in a display team I had to find a way of keeping her quiet before her turn I bought a silent whistle which I never let her see when she barks a short toot and she shuts up immediately ....works every time

In my breed it works very well, but they are by nature bold and independent (read wilful and clever).  I have found it works brilliantly to interupt the behaviour, giving you the chance to give the command for the behaviour you want (quiet) for which you praise.  It is a mild aversive, ans should not alarmn a dog more than being rained on or getting water flicked on tehm from bushes or trees.

I'm with you Brainless - along with many others I've found it very effective in my own breed - a sensitive but ultra smart one as you know :P

To OP, if using it for training purpose with a "real" problem barker, then go with the jiff lemon container (emptied of the lemon juice of course and replaced with water) the idea being that is less likely to be spotted in the hand than a bottle spray or even water pistol.  The idea is to give the dog the message that the barking, snarling, snapping etc results in an unpleasant experience - not to associate it as a punishment which only happens around other dogs :(  Like any corrective training aid (such as using disks for eg) the idea is for the reaction by the trainer to be immediate but for the "unpleasant association" to have come from an unknown source - ie. associated as a consequence of the bad behaviour only.  Hence if using water to "squirt" this should have NO adverse affect when producing a spray bottle when trying to groom your dog.  If the dog is scared of  a grooming spray bottle, then both the handler's method and timing have been out of synch.

regards, Teri :)

If you are talking about a ordinary water spray like the type you use for squirting plants but smaller I have only one thing to say excellent!  All my dogs are trappy (a bit like their owner)  I have only ever had to squirt them a couple of times for doing it and then I just shake the bottle and they dont do it any more.  I have also found it is brilliant for when they are being benched and for when they bark at people walking past the house.  In fact with my eldest it has been the only thing which has ever stopped my eldest.  I will say though that one of my pups I sold was being a bit of a ratbag and I suggested it and he just ate the water which was squirted at him so it might not work for every dog :)

TTS, I also found picking up the bottle shut them up, unfortantly when it game to grooming (when we first got the dogs I didn't groom them, and mum hardly did, we didn't know everything, we thought a brush and scissors was all we needed! :D ) Now however I have a bitch with a fly away coat (since being spayed) and have to use water to get this coat down.  I foudn I had to re-teach that squiry bottle was a good thing, and ment lots of fuss and treats.  not very good. 

The idea of water is not a punishment, but I link to punishment, it shuts the dog up long enough to re-enfource the command as has been said.  It then becomes a link that being squirted means quite.

Another eason for the jif lemon rather then bottle is the jif lemon will fit in pocket incase he gets excited in the ring or something.  At club had a sammy (shall say no more) the jif lemon container was easy to fit in the owners bumbag.  fingers crossed his alot quiter now and won his class at crufts! 

Well you see I am luckier than you Dallies dont have long coats:)  I can see a problem arising from it if you do have a long haired dog.  I will say though that it is only the water spray bottle that scares them in the summer we have one of those water spray things kids run under and they all join in with that.  Different story if you mention B A T H word though then they all scatter to the four corners of the house :)

I use a fine mist to spray on the coats and as soon as they realise it is mist and not a jet they relax and are quite happy.  they also only do the oops bottle bit if they ahve been barking, if they are quiet and I pick it up it doesn't worry them, after all it is the association they have made with barking or OTT behaviour.

i find the water spray bottle works very well if you use  logic - 1. use a different shape bottle as the "be quiet" one, or even a different colour (its amazing, but they recognise the difference). I must admit that i have a retriever - who hates the bottle and a lab who stands there waiting for more, although she does quieten down.
2. Use up to 8 drops of citronella oil in a ±250 - 500ml plastic bottle of water - the smell is strong and they learn to associate the smell  with "be quiet"
3. Use a strong squirt for be quiet as you would normally use a mist for grooming.
They really do learn to distinguish if you use the above.
A few other suggestions:  do you get to ringcraft early? Try to be there at least half an hour before time and walk your dog around to settle down before all the others arrive.
Make friends with one or two others at ringcraft and get them to also come a bit earlier to settle the dogs together, or even allow yours to effusively greet one other dog while others are arriving - yours then doesnt even notice the others and wow...suddenly they are all there and behaving and it also sets your dog thinking and seeing good examples - i truly believe that a dog needs to think.... otherwise we have trouble!
Keep your dogs focussed on you - this would mean training at other times and teaching your dog to pay attention to you, no matter what else is going on, but then again this may be easier said than done. but dont give up!!! and good luck.

Hi
I have tried this in the past....what does anyone suggest if the water spray/jet has NO effect whatsoever?  The first few times, it interrupted the barking which was great and gave the opportunity to divert and praise...then, however, the water lost its effectiveness and he has now made it into a game - trying to preempt where the water is coming from and catch it in his mouth.  (This applies whether I deliver the 'shot' or whether I get someone else to do it in class.)

Suggestions please?

Hi gunner
I have to agree with you I have Beardies and they love water I cant hose anything down in the garden without a dog standing infront barking wanting to play (I might add that I dont play that game)
I was advised in training class the water gun or bottle it didnt work she turned it into a game so I was lost on that one.
I have now devised my own I have a silent dog whistle hidden under my jkt and when she barks I pop it into my mouth when she isnt looking and blow once she hates it and shuts up immediately looking around the room wondering where it came from  the only problem now is I cant use the whistle for anything else but I at least have a quiet dog in training class!!! (until she of course figures out its me ( wont take long with a Beardie)

Regards
Roni

Good news! I used the Jif lemon (containing water of course!) as Luke started barking when we were queuing up to pay -and it worked! We thoroughly enjoyed the class and I am so relieved.

I agree that using a spray can effectively control unwanted behaviour in a dog if used correctly (with commands). Our breed of dog is very intelligent and strong willed and we have used a water spray to control barking and excessive boisterous behaviour. We only have to get the water spray bottle out now and she modifies her behaviour dramatically.  We have tried clicker training but found that she is far too greedy for this to be effective!  If you do let other people use the water spray you have to make sure they understand the reasoning behind it, especially children, as sometimes people think it is just funny to spray the dog for no reason which is obviously unfair and confusing to the poor dog.