Hi all.... i have just joined after reading the boards for awhile now, and was hoping someone could offer abit of advise or guidance on my puppy 11wk old mal named kai.
I have had him almost 3 weeks now and he still cant bear to be separated from me unless he's in a deep sleep and then the furthest i get is the garden. I crate him at night and he now manages to sleep quite happily in it. The problem is during the day, if i put him when hes sleepy after 5 mins hes wide awake and howling and crying for me, i put his toys in and a tasty kong but after 10 mins of playing with the kong he's back to howlin. The only reason i need to be able to leave him alone is so that i can go to the supermarket without having to worry about the neighbours complaining (semi detached bungalow).
I keep leaving him for a bit longer each time but he still wont settle even after 20mins of howlin. I would be grateful for any help or advice.... He's a darling the rest of the time.

Go back to basics.  Separation must be built up in minute incremental steps to achieve success.  You should start with one second and then immediately return WHEN the dog is quiet. Build up to several seconds several times a day, minutes, then 10s of minutes etc.  NEVER reward your dog's noise with what it wants otherwise you are just training it to make a noise. 

Teach it cause and effect - I scream, no one is here, I am quiet I get company.

I suspect you have tried to make the time too long and your timing is not quite right.

Leaving a radio on might help. Just quietly playing in the backgound. Soothing music or a chatty programme. Also covering the crate to make it dark and cosy.

Hi jumbuck... thanks but the crate is already covered and there has been aloud ticking clock nearby since he came home, as i said before he's happy at nite time in there its just during the day,  i will try a radio but i doubt he will hear it over his howling lol

I started with allowing him in and out praising him every time he went in on his own and was quiet, he would lay down and go sleep with the door pushed too no problem. As i say he goes in at bedtime and just goes to sleep and only makes an noise when he need out for the toilet. He was spending 20 to 60 mins asleep in there during the day no problem. But i do need to be able to leave occassionally but now when he goes in he starts howling as soon as i turn my back... it is continous howling even after 20 mins hes still at it, i have just tried again this morning and waited for him to become quiet but after 20 mins was still howling and getting upset. how long do i wait for him to become quiet. I know everything takes time, but is it fair to leave him howling for that long in the hope he will give up and become quiet so that i can praise him?

But you wont wait that long.........

puppies have to take a breath

The NANO second he is silent, go in, do not wait for a prolonged period of silence, that is not going to work and by that time the dog will have worked its way into a state and be constantly rehearsing this behaviour.

As I said you must build in tiny incremental steps, do not leave any dog howling for 20 mins otherwise you are teaching him nothing as he won't know what DOES work and what does NOT.

Hi tohme,

I dont wish to sound argumentative but i've just tried your suggestion and it takes me longer than a nano second to get to Kai, even thou im just outside the door. so by the time i've got my head round the door to praise him he has already started again.... he only howls when he cant see me, so i cant sit in front of the crate and wait to praise him as he doesnt howl then.

should i perhaps try your suggestion and keep moving away from the crate each time until he eventually cant see me?

Hello Jane :)

I have a Mal called Kai too :D I haven't had a problem with seperation anxiety with a Mal - but I know someone who has and she will hopefully be along soon ;)

Malamutes are very much pack animals and do tend to suffer from anxiety when alone.

Hi Malakai :-)

How old is Kai? i have just had a look at your web page... beautiful dogs :-)
I knew before i got him that Mals are pack animals, which is not a problem as im usually at  home. I had a german shepherd that thought he was my shadow, so im used to dogs being under my feet so to speak lol but i was able to leave him...
The funny thing is thou... if the rest of the family are at home and i go out, he still howls and whines for about 10 mins or so even thou the others are there, he doesnt do it if they go out :-)
maybe he just loves his "mum" too much.

Hi Jane ...I am the person that Malakai was referring to :) I have two Mals but the oldest one, Hudson, developed dreadful separation anxiety almost as soon as we got him :(

It took us many loong months of hard work to get him to a point where we could leave him alone in the house without him either screaming in hysterics or deestroying something.

The advice that Tohme has given you really is the best  that I would offer :) Every split second you leave him and he is quiet, praise him ..keep at it and don't give up. You will eventually find that you can leave him for a few seconds, then a few minutes and then ..a couple of hours (once he is older)

HTH

Melody

Yes, I can relate to that. My Kai is a Daddy's boy and when my Hubby had to go away to work for a short time Kai became depressed - he wouldn't have anything to do with anyone, just moped about :( This all happened around other things too, so there were a couple of reasons but he missed his Daddy! He's 3 1/2 years old now - a big puppy dog :)

I'd also suggest investing in a DAP diffuser as these have been found to help in many cases; I use one myself at certain times of year and will now also use the DAP spray when travelling and at strange places :)

You can get one from your vet - its a plug in and may take a few days to help. Some people find they don't work so it may depend on the dog, but i would suggest giving it a go. It can't harm and might be  a big help!! (You have to leave it plugged in all the time).

Re the nano second thing, you can start to praise him as soon as he stops; I would tend to wait for a tiny gap of a second when he is quiet, then say "clever boy, good boy" as yoy go to him; that will give you time to actually get to the place where he is and he will start to understand, otherwise by the time you have got to him he may have started again :)

Lindsay
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Hi Lindsay,
Interesting to read about the dap diffuser spray. I have just bought one to see if it will work at classes to help some of the barking that we occasionally get.

Hi Jumbuck :)

I've not used the spray yet, but have had so much help from the diffuser i am sure the spray must be as good.
I think that the dog needs to be exposed to the pheromones for a while so not sure about how effective it would be in a class - let me know!! :)j

Lindsay
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Be careful when using the DAP sprays in a multi dog environment as one of the things they do is lower certain inhibitions.  I understand there have been increased instances of fighting where they have been used.

Do you have anymore info on this Christine? I exchanged a couple of emails with the vet who was involved in inventing the dap about the lowering of inhibitions..PM if you want :)j

thanks,
Lindsay
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Hi Lindsay

A discussion "blew up" some time ago (prior to one of my enforced reformats) on an email list I was on about the diffusers where previously placid bitches had started scrapping (no other changes and not around seasons).  I had a word with the vet about it as I happened to be there and they said it was because of the lowering of inhibitions.  I have been looking for further information since I posted but cannot find the previous correspondence.  This is the only "anti" thing I have ever heard about this product though and generally people seem to find it almost miraculous according to their posts :)

Did I not read somewhere that it has causes some bad reactions in people................?

I will let you all know how we found it after saturday as that is when we will use it. I hope it is successful and that no bad reactions occur with canines or humans. We do have a couple of people that have asthma.

Hi janeandkai
Do you mean a Malamute or Malinois? are you in UK?
If you are and IF its a Malinois I am surprised you are not turning to the breeder for EVERY bit of advice needed.
If its a Malinois and you are in UK just say so and I'll give the email of an experienced breed specialist who also  works them.

Hi Davedee...

yes i am in the uk, scotland actually but its a malamute i have..
i have spoke to the breeder but she hasnt had a separation problem with her Mals, which is why i thought i would ask if anyone else has.

Thanks to all for your suggestions, i shall try them and hopefully one will work lol :-)

Dennis, if you mean who I think you mean, he simply recommends you know what for separation anxiety from what he writes on forums  
He has also only owned Malinois for a few years and kennels them.

I would suggest anyone reading this who owns an anxious  Malinois (as opposed to a Malamute) gets in touch with me and i can put  them in touch with several breeders who have been involved with them for many years and not just a few years.

OTOH, breeders may not know as much about treating SA as people who specialise in behaviour - but it would be good to discuss with both IMHO.

Thanks Kerioak, I have heard something similar but not actually come across any "proof" of this as such. The vet said it was best to not suggest it for aggression cases without assessment :)

Tohme, yes, there was one case i read of a few days ago, someone had a reaction to it (bit like an asthmatic attack). I must admit i have not heard of this before, and being slightly asthmatic have no problem at all myself.

Lindsay
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