Have just had a very worried first time , very caring ,breeder on the phone who has a problem with one of her owners.

The new owner, a 77 year old man from Yorkshire, bought a dog puppy from her which she kept on for him until he was 10 weeks old.   She had him sign the usual puppy contract, that if the vet found any signs if ill health in the pup, the purchaser had 14 days to return the pup or have a refund.    The purchaser phoned up two days before the 'guarantee' ran out to say the pup had no balls.

The pup is now 7 months old, the testicles still haven't descended.    Purchaser says he told the breeder when the pup was 12 weeks old.

Purchaser phones breeder back to say that he wants all his money back as the dog won't be able to sire a litter.    This is the first time he has ever mentioned breeding with the dog.

Unfortunately the breeder had only put the export endorsement on the registration, not the breeding endorsement.

We all know that testicles can descend almost any time up to about 18 months or so, but this new breeder is rather upset by the completely mercenary tone of the owner.

I would like help drafting a reply to this Yorkshire gentleman, as I feel that he's just trying it on.........

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Personally I would have thought that the 'return the pup or have a refund' clause would have expired after the 14 days. Yes, the chap reported the problem within that time, but unless he said at that time that he wanted to return the pup or get his money back he's missed out. To keep the pup for a few more months surely means he's accepted the goods, as it were?

I think I'd offer to take the dog back 'as goodwill' and maybe refund half the money, if only to get the dog away from this man who sounds unpleasant.

Hi Jo, I think if it were me I wouldn't even get into any argument. If this man want's to return this puppy then I would go along with it. Who's to say what else 'might' occur. The safest place for the pup is back with the breeder. I don't think there is any more a breeder can do than to take back and refund to keep fuss to a minimum. Of course I wouldn't refund if the puppy was not going to be returned.

So, I wouldn't argue.

Dawn R.

Yes, she was going to offer to have the pup back, but I wonder that if he's as mercenary as all that, he may try to charge her for his expenses as well as trying for his money back!!

Thought I'd talk it through with you lot first

Jo

I've had one dog with this and offered to pay the expenses of the operation.  I did advise them not to do anything until he was 12 months old as at 9 months I could feel the other one but it hadn't come down.  Yet again at 6 months the vet was insistent that he needed to be done as he would get cancer.

The family decided to have him done and not wait.  But they never once said that they would want to return him as they'd fallen in love with him.

In this case, did they have him as an intended show/breeding prospect or pet?    This one was intended to be a pet/picking up dog,

Think that the fact that anyone might even consider returning an otherwise healthy pup at 7 months speaks volumes if the owner's situation hasn't changed and they were made aware of the foibles of the beed.

Actually, in this situation, the owner hasn't suggested returning the pup, but the breeder is thinking about asking him to.

Jo

He was sold as a pet for them to work.   They've actually since asked for another so luckily they were stil more than happy with him.

Dogs come under the sale of goods act, your 'puppy contract' will not affect the owner's statutory rights to have a dog fit for its purpose, and unless exlcluded this includes breeding. I'd offer to refund the money & have the pup back. If he wants to keep the pup then refuse to give a refund. Do a search on the web for legal advice regarding such matters, I am not legally trained.

I too am no legal expert but I would think that as he never said he wanted the dog to breed, the dog is still 'fit for purpose' ie to be a pet. there is no way I'd give this man a full refund - he should have returned pup as soon as he was aware of the problem, by keeping the dog he 'accepted the goods'.

Maybe he is worried about the expense of any operations - after all he is a pensioner.  Or maybe he has found he is too much work for him and is using the problem as an excuse.

Fiona

I am sorry but as far as I am concerned dogs are sold as pets there is no implied guaranteee about potential breeding as the vast majority of dogs are not suitable for this regardless of entirety.

No breeder in their right mind would sell a pup for breeding, even a proven stud sold can prove infertile.

The sale of a pup as a pet is just that, and his lack of both testicles hardly makes him unfit for that purpose.

As for Castration now being a xost, the majority of pet owners would ahve this done anywway so would hardly count as extra expense.  It soesn't actually need to be done at all, it is just there is an increased risk of testicular cancer, not a guarantee that this will happen.

I quite agree, Brainless.    I'm including a paragraph in my own contract that states that although all care is taken, no guarantee can be given of the pups show/work/breeding potential.

Unfortunately the breeder didn't use my contract, but another one, less comprehensive.

If the contracts aren't legally worth the paper they're written on, then the 'money back guarantee' if the pup were to be returned within  14 days isn't binding either.

I think the chap isn't as green as all that.   Apparently he's met up with a bitch owner while walking his dog, and they thought it would be a good idea if...............

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

I know I'll be jumped on for this, but the thing I find disturbing is that someone sold a puppy to a 77-year old man.  It is very unlikely that someone that age will be fit enough to handle a large boisterous puppy, and also very likely that the dog will outlive the owner.  So unless there are family to step in and take him, here is a pup doomed to rescue before it leaves the breeder.

That occurred to me as well.  

I wonder if anyone would sell me a flatcoat when I'm 77?

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

My mother was dubious about getting a pup when she was still in her 60s, and made sure at least one of her children swore to look after the dog if she died first. Luckily (because I'm not ready to be an orphan!) the dog died at the age of 14 and Mother's still going ... but she says her pet-owning days are now over.