This is a radio controlled version of the aboistop. Can anyone tell me if they've used one and are they any good?
Apparently they discourage unwanted behaviour by emitting a sudden spray under the dogs nose which is triggered by the owner using a remote control.
Thinking of getting one to help me stop maddie from jumping up everyone who visits, or playbiting the kids and jumping up and knocking them over in the garden.  Also would it help with 'off lead' recall? Obviously I would use a voice command first, as always, which is usually always ignored! But I really would like some help, a temporary solution, to control her boisterous behaviour.

Dee

These are absoultely brilliant.  Expensive, but worth the money.  I do not even have to use the spray now as mine works on the warning button (i have the newer version make sure you get this)  Indoors if she does something I do not agree with all I have to do is pickup the remote from the tele this when she does not have the collar on and point it at her. Magic.
Well worth it, I was sceptical when I first got it, borrowed one for a while, and like many people when I stopped using it old habits came back so invest in one. Buy online they are cheaper also.

'all I have to do is pickup the remote from the tele this when she does not have the collar on and point it at her'

When I use mine, I hide it from the dogs. I don't want them to associate the control with the collar and spray. Also if they do make that association, do they not misbehave when they aren't wearing it? And does it not make them distrust you or become fearful of you, knowing that you're the one pointing the control at them?

'and like many people when I stopped using it old habits came back'  I think that may be because the dog realised they weren't wearing it and could get away with the behaviour without a spray?!

I'm not trying to get at you, its just that I wouldn't want my dogs to become wary of a remote control - rather the bad behaviour itself!

I have used one On My GWP who goes at the fence like a mad man I couldnt risk him frighteneing horses and riders going past and dog walkers  it worked very well only have to reach for the bag its in and he is putty in my hands so it worked for me as they say.
we also use the aboistop collars in the kennels if we get excessive barking I think there is only three dogs out of hundreds they havent worked on so again worth trying its not a cruel method and does work

I think it depends on the type of dog you have to be honest. I wouldn't use a collar on an overly sensitive or insecure dog.

It's up to you what you do but personally I wouldn't use one for a recall.

I wrote quite a long reply a few days ago about how I trained one of my dogs on a spray collar.

I will post it again, as it seems relevant.

"I had a rescue girl who had the lovliest personality when it came to humans, but dogs was another matter! Before, if she saw a dog from the otherside of the field, she would be lunging and barking and straining at the lead.

Not everyone would agree with my method, but I used a citronella spray collar...

I got the dog used to wearing the collar (without the spray or battery) around the house for a few days to get her used to the feel of it. Then filled it up on about the 4th day, just before she went for a walk. Then whenever she saw another dog in the distance, I would put on a high happy voice, and reward her so she associated the presence of another dog with rewards and praise.

Then gradually, kept taking it further and brought her closer and closer to other dogs... if she started to show aggressive behaviour (staring and growling/lunging/barking) she would get a quick 1 second spray. I would be looking at the sky, or away from her and be in the oblivious 'what was that?!!' mode, so she didn't associate the spray with myself. Then I would treat for the correct. I never told her off if she was aggressive, as I believe that makes them think you are joining in! I let her make her own decisions.. After weeks of continuous training, she finally caught on that

other dogs = fun, happy, praise, food!

the slightest sign of aggression = a shock/startle, gets her nowhere, being ignored, no treats, no fun!

And she chose what she preferred.

Eventually I was able to take her right up to other dogs (Made sure they were friendly ones only). I would only let her have a quick sniff, maybe 2/3 seconds, at first then break it up to keep things short and exciting.

Now I can let her off lead no worries and be confident she will not snap, she is a completely different dog from when I got her. She is happy and excited when she see's other dogs and I'm alot happier too!"

If the master plus works at all it works on a combination of 2 main punishments 1. A sudden and unexpected spray of cold (how cold depends on weather ) citronella or water goes into the dogs nose and eyes. 2. If the dog is running its increased respiratory rate increases the discomfort as the sudden nasal and oral  intake of either substance can be between painful and very uncomfortable. 3.The smell of either the citronella or mustard sprays is intended to punish the dog, it's supposed to be obnoxious to the dog. 4. The smell lasts so that part of the punishment has a long duration 5. The whole combination frightens most dogs and that's the main purpose of it. So in short it is a very quick succession of 5 punishments.

In the video the first dog, a lab is not to bothered by it, but all the others suddenly run, tail between the legs, ears down and run, they could run anywhere, the video is as dangerous as the collars, the methods shown are not training methods and the effects of the collars pre-occupy the dogs with the combined, prolonged punishments.

The worst affected dog is a German wire haired pointer, it cocks it leg against a car wheel, is squirted and tail completely between its legs it tries to drag itself around the back of the so called trainer, well it has to be a behaviourist, its bottom is almost on the ground in fear as if in a fear urination, as the behaviourist forces it around between himself and the wheel again the dog tries to drag itself in front of the owner to and get away. People on here have them and they can confirm that 'training' video.

Someone did tests on 20 of them in 2002, she returned 17. The equipment is unreliable and only works temporarily on most dogs, some dogs have benefited but if you read the safety reports who knows at what cost. Master Plus is returned to retailers by the bucket load, one retailer told me an entire batch was returned.

Contemporary sales of static stimulation e-training collars outsell the Master Plus by over 50-1, those figures are from totally reliable sources. When Master Plus came out 3 years ago those figures were opposite. People are have learned a lot this past 3 years and if my emails are anything to go by a consatnt stream of pet owners ask for accurate information.

THERE HAVE BEEN NO SAFETY TESTS ON MASTER PLUS SPRAYS.

Some Material Safety Data Sheet results are at the links following, they all show serious hazard risks- a few are
Do not breath vapour.
May cause sensitisation by skin contact.
Irritating to respiratory system and skin.
Risk of serious damage to eyes.

http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/msds/md100301.html

http://libertynatural.com/msd/355.htm

http://www.naturecraft.net/naturecraft/data/038.htm

http://msds.farnam.com/msds/m001167.htm

http://www.cepis.ops-oms.org/bvsapud/i/fulltext/geraniol/geraniol.htm

http://libertynatural.com/msd/22.htm

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=6010019

http://msds.farnam.com/msds/m000773.htm

http://www.cepis.ops-oms.org/bvsapud/i/fulltext/citronellal/citronellal.htm

Well I have used one and think it was brilliant :)

Davedee, if the dog is wearing a collar (by definition around its neck) and is running (presumably forwards, but correct me if I'm wrong) how can a spray from the collar get into its eyes and nose? Surely the laws of physics/acceleration/motion etc dictate that the spray will be behind its nose from the outset?

And please don't bring your sales pitch for e-collars into an query about another collar. Thank you.
:)

Are these collars, masterplus and the newer version Bella mentioned, the same ones you can get from the canine chemist? Or is there another site I can look at please?
Thanks for all your replies
Dee

The Master Plus has a pump inside it, when triggered the pump forces a jet of citronella forwards, it goes well in front of the dog and into the air all around the dogs face, the very reason it is scented is in the hope the scent is obnoxious to the dog and the behaviour becomes a punishment to the dog.

When it is released the dog runs into it, its not just a little spurt this is quite a cloud, I was surprised when I first saw the video how much is released, the amount depends on the aero dynamics of the muzzle, wind and dogs speed. Every dog in the video has spray going up into its nose and eyes. The sole UK import and distribution rights belong to 'The Company of Animals'.

Citronella is the scent used in 'Antimate' rub-ons. Stud dogs throughout the country recognise this smell as meaning 'Bitch in season nearby! Hurrah!' Not a great discouragement ...

The spray I have is not citronella and if you use the collar in the correct porition then the spray goes up into the dogs hair on the throat and at not ime has it gone into the eyes or nose.

Davdee, Get off you high horse and start to listen to other people, if these collars were at all any way "Dangerous" they would have been withdrawn off the market.
The spray that comes with the collar is an "odourless" and safe spray, I have looked it up as in no way would I use anything to Harm my dogs at all.
I do not use it all the time but was having trouble with the recall which was corrected very shortly and now the collar is redundant.
All the working people use these of the Electric shock collar (which I do not agree with). I have been in touch with the manufacturers to check the safety of this collar and as it was designed by "DR. ROGER MUGFORD"  I think he qualifies to be in the rules.

The button you use depends on the amount of spray that the collar emits, and again at no time have I used the 2nd button!!!!

I suppose you are a dog trainer that never fails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Davedee.

I am no fan of these collars they do work sometimes and can be very effective but I certainly would not use one for the reasons that the initial poster stated. However your posts are rubbish the spray does not go into the dogs eyes it does not cause respitatory problems it works on a startle response plus a residual smell in some cases citronella and in other cases it is odourless and it is the hisss and the gas that causes the startle.

Quote from In response to Bella  (I have been in touch with the manufacturers to check the safety of this collar and as it was designed by "DR. ROGER MUGFORD"  I think he qualifies to be in the rules.)

Why do you think he qualifies to be in the rules? I suppose you think think he has a Doctorate in Animal Behaviour? WRONG His Doctorate is in human Psychology and he is no role model for the behavioural sciences. By his own admission dogs that are treated by him come out "festooned with gadgets" ( His words not mine) Did you see him on Britains Worst Pets. When with Trude Mostue he stood and watched whilst two boxers were terrorised by a psychotic rabbit. The filming must have went on for hours to get the footage they did. The dogs were left bleeding, terrified and exhausted. He made a total bufoon of himself on that program and showed him up for what he is.

Please do not use him as some sort of icon, because that he aint. He is seen as a laughing stock in the profession, but a rich one.

I'm a little concerned about how some people use these. Ideally, they should be used as a "last resort" because some dogs, esp. sensitive tupes, can find them very frightening. It's also true to say that some dogs are not at all frightend fo them :) but, they should always be use with caution. The remarks re citronella are unfounded; I am a qualified aromatherapist and citronella is not harmful as a spray form! HOwever, the scent does stay around and I would much prefer  the spray that is not citronella ;)

It's important to find time to train - to search for knowledge when being  a dog owner IMHO. If at the end of the day a spray collar is really deemed necessary, then I would say use one, but do consider whether it is fair to use one for simple dog behaviours which can be stopped with out the use of what is a fairly strong punishment (and it's esp. not fair if the owner gives mixed signals, or has no  idea how to train anyway (not directed at anyone, just a general comment!) ).

Lindsay
x

I agree with you Lyndsay and am concerned that they seemed to be used for behaviour problems that with a bit of patience and training would right themselves.

The poster who said it was used to stop their dog jumping and barking at the fence when people and horses go by is using it as it was intended.  But I find it worrying they are being used for everyday problems within the home.

JMO
Sandra

We also use Citronella on the horses to keep the flies away in the winter.  These collars are now sold with an odourless spray which are just as affective.
This arguement on collars will go on a long time and what about the electronic shock collars which I was nearly talked into using!!!!
I used the collar for unwanted behaviour which it worked for, it is now in the cupboard!!
If they were that inhumane then why does the local vet recommend them and also hire them for you to try.  Surely there has got to be some good in this.????
Yes, they are not supposed to be used in dogs under 9 months of age so people who think they are going to get a quick fix solution by using one of these are wrong.

  They ARE last resort items.

It cured a friends dog that habitually went after dear and sheep, without it the dog would almost have certainly be put to sleep, it now leads a happy and chase free life.

After all it all boils down to the amount of training you do with your dogs as a young puppy. 

Don't see the difference between a dog jumping up at fences to bark at people any different to a dog jumping up and barking at people who come to visit, well yes i do see there is a difference now I've said that, people get hurt especially children. Yes I know its my own fault I should have been more serious with her from the beginning about this but to be honest most people encouraged her, especially my brother, to jump up and now she's a 13 month old 43kg puppy (leonberger) they dont like it. Unfortunately she doesn't see the difference in jumping up at my brother, who as I said encouraged her to do this, and jumping up at anyone else who comes in. No she doesnt do this to me because I refuse to enter the room until she stops. I now am trying to discourage her from jumping at the kids and play biting when they are in the garden, if they go out for a game of footie she likes to join in but then gets so excited she starts doing this so I have to bring her in. Yes I know I should have been firmer with her at a very early age but if I'm honest I was too soft with her and now others are paying for it. I myself have no problem with her and have tried to 'train' other people how to get her to have control, but you know what other people are like they tell your dog to 'sit' or 'down' the dog does the opposite and they don't enforce it so dog learns to misbehave!
Sorry to go on and I probably haven't said all the right things, its so hard to explain on line. But I will take on board what has been said and try a bit harder with her and have a word with the behaviourist at training on sunday, see what she thinks as she knows my girl.
Thanks
Dee

One of my dogs was constantly steeling my other dogs food, he would charge at him and push him out of the way, we tried everything to stop him and eventually sought the advice of not 1 but 3 reputable behaviourists.
The advice was to try the 'masterplus or spray commander', at first I was against this but in the end decided to try and the result was amazing.
I only had to use it once and it stopped the bad behaviour, now my dogs eat together with no steeling by the younger one he sits and waits until the other dog has finished and moved away from his bowl before he checks whether there is anything left.

So there are just some things that you need 'extra' help for, be it only temporary. She is so good in other aspects, except her dodgy recall, but most of the time she is very well behaved. The older dog is no trouble at all, the youngest, 4 months, is coming along well and I am being much firmer in my commands!
Thanks for all your input

Dee

canine 11.04.05 07:03 GMT

1. However your posts are rubbish the spray does not go into the dogs eyes

Davedee
I have already quoted that spray going into the eyes and face as well as the nostrils is clearly seen in the video.

It also goes into the other dogs face if its near one. The spray shoots out probably between 1ft to 18 inches and becomes a cloud of uncontrolled mist. The range is clearly be seen with the Samoyed barking at another dog, the 1ft to 18 inches is my own estimate from the video.

canine
2. it does not cause respiratory problems

Davedee
You either accept material safety data sheet results or you do not, I do.

What a shame, you write an otherwise informative/educational post and then mix it with mediocrity.

Hi
Read this thread and had to join to reply.
I am a Police dog handler/trainer so have a bit of experiance with the more dominant breeds and am currently working a young Doberman who was an incredibly dominant pup having been abandoned for destruction at 14 weeks after trapping her owner and biting.

In reply to Davedees first post:
Some people seem to have missed the point of the air collar - it should be worn for at least 30 mins before use and used with the remote out of site at all time, the purpose being that the dog associates the noise and the blast of air with a mis-behaviour trait. If used correctly most dogs only need correction over a 7 day period if a vocal command is used along side the air spray.
Once the dog has associated the remote or even worse the collar with the noise/spray then it effectively becomes useless, as the action of wearing the collar is enough to make the dog behave, therefore the dog will have to retain the collar throughout its life.

I never use the citronella spray, just the odourless refill or an oxygen refill.

The spray ejects to approx 8inches maximum.

If placed on the dog correctly the spray will hit the dog under the chin without excessive misting. I have never seen the video but  perhaps they should remake it with correctly positioned collars?

When I collected the above pup at 16 weeks I used the spray collar as above ONCE to stop the puppy biting (you couldn't touch her without a bite and was otherwise considered unsuitable for rehoming) she looked surprised, but has never bitten myself or my family since.
This is not a magic collar but when used along side other training is very effective.

Phillcason

>I am a Police dog handler/trainer <

Davedee
What do you mean "handler/trainer"? are you a handler or trainer?

What working role is the Dobermann you mention working in and what force? there were no Dobermanns working in a protection role in any UK force as recent as last July and only one in the UK whose brother is with a German Police unit, the dog in the UK is in Schutzhund and that is not a working role.

What line is the dog from, there are a small number of Schtzhund capable dogs around, its unlikely the police have them because of the cost and few breeders would part with them.

Phillcarson
>abandoned for destruction at 14 weeks after trapping her owner and biting.<

davedee
I am not a great lover of UK breeding but even the most reckless breeder would have contact with owners at that age, anyway if you PM me privatly and tel me which force your in I will verify it and the dog.

Thats easy to establish, which line  is the Dobermann from, thefirst 3 genrations would help.
Regards DD

Something else, who is supllying the policew with the MPlus-I have just called a significant retailer and the police have neverapproached any significant retailer for MPlus.

Phill, I would have to agree with you about the video, i understand it's not particularly good. I believe it was made in France and not the UK.

Lindsay
X

After reading this post with interest what seems to come across to me is that many people don't want to use them but after trying them have decided they can be a useful tool if used safely and correctly and have stopped behaviour that in circumstances could be quite dangerous for the dog.

What I would like to ask Davedee is why do you feel it is necessary for Philcase to verify to you his dog  handling qualifications and career? He like others has given his experience of using one of these collars once and has never had a repeat of the behaviour that it was needed for. Why the need to check up?