I hope someone can help. A friend of mine has a black cocker spaniel bitch (from working strain) and a blue roan dog, Is it alright for them to mate with each other.

It really depends what she hopes to achieve, if they have both been worked and have proved successful and have passed there eye tests then as far as mixing solids and roans this is accepted practice in the working cockers world. If however the roan is show type your friend should be aware that she will be breeding puppies that will disappoint the puppy purchaser who is expecting either a good working cocker or a typical show type cocker for a pet. There was a case recently of someone taking a breeder to court under the trades description act after being sold a working cocker and it did not turn out to be what they had expectied I cannot recall what the outcome was but I think you can never be sure how a magistrate will view these things.

Hi Shirley

Alright to mate them from what point of view? If you are talking about colour, then many breeders prefer not to mate solids to particolours, for various reasons such as introducing hereditary problems more often seen in particolours into solid lines & vice versa & also the possibility of "mismarked" puppies ie solid pups with patches of white/roan. However, mixed colour matings are common in working lines where colour is not considered to be important. More important in any mating is that both parents should have excellent temperaments, they should be good examples of the breed & they should have passed the recommended health screening tests, particularly eye-testing for PRA (hereditary eye disease found in Cockers & a number of other breeds)

Jane

I guess I type faster that you Jane :)

Not difficult Isabel - typing is not one of my strong points :D

I am going to be blunt and this comment is not directed at the original poster but it amazes me the amount of people asking questions about whether or not it is ok to breed x y z. Generally the combination they are thinking about are all wrong but what I am really amazed at is why on earth are they thinking about it anyway. They obviously don'y know enough about the breed and about breeding also. 30lb dogs wiht 12lb bitches Hello......

Which brings me to my next rant.... I overheard a conversation at the SKC between 2 people.
The lady of the conversation said my Elie is due in about a week. The other lady asked if she was keeping a pup and the first lady said oh no have you seen Elie she is a right mutt...

That is the second comment I have heard like this in a month..

Rant over .....Pamela

I agree with you in principle Pamela and I am not above wellying in when I suspect the same :) but in this particular post the whole thing is a little unclear. I dont think we can tell from the post whether in fact the friend has all the necessaries for responsible breeding in hand as they do not make it clear if the blue roan is working type. Maybe guest is just querying the choise of colour combination. Could be anyway :)

Hi Isabel

I'm sorry i seem to have upset people asking about a blue roan mating with an all black cocker spaniel(the blue roan is not from working strain) but he's not a show dog either. They are pets and both have brilliant temperaments. They are both KC registered and i was considering buying a pup from the owner. My real question is are the pups pedigree or not?

Shirley

if theyre both kc registered then the pups would be pedigrees, have the adults had all the tests done for the breed? if not thats a fair reason not to go ahead, another would be that theirs already a supply of cocker spaniels so unless theres something really outstanding about the dogs and the owner has a vast experience of the genetics in the lines involved and is an experienced breeder, id suggest buying one in from a known and reputable source. im not suggesting your freinds not capable but do we really need a purely pet bred litter, it will put the bitch at risk and also change the habits of the male--id think it over long and hard,

Shirley, yes they will have a pedigree the working and show type of cockers are now so seperate that it would mean little, if the blue roan is not from working lines even if he is only a pet he will be from show lines and so in the eyes of prospective purchasers the pups will be neither fish nor fowl as it were :) If there were people interested in the pups I think your friend would have to cover themselves by ensuring the buyers understood the pedegree even getting it in writing that they understand that the pups may grow to resemble either type because as I say there has already been a court case over this sort of thing. All in all I have to say the idea's not a great one, if the dogs have great temperaments and you really want one with a genetic link to one or other why not go back to the breeder of the one you fancy the most and buy a pup from similar breeding.

Hi Shirley

As others have said, if both parents are both KC registered Cockers then their pups will be able to be registered with the KC as Cockers & they will be "pedigree". If the blue roan dog is not working strain then he is "show-type" whether he is shown or not. It is entirely up to you whether you wish to have a puppy from a breeder who probably has not had the parents eye-tested & where the pups will be definitely a "mixed bag" appearance-wise. No matter how appealing these two dogs are, this still seems to be a mating carried out (or to be carried out) without much in the way of knowledge of Cocker pedigrees & genetics, not the ideal approach to breeding in many people's opinions.

Good luck whatever you decide :-)

Jane

Can I just say that someone I know bought
a cocker spaniel pup and thought she was getting
a show line, and the breeder told her she was.
As the mother was a pretty little blue roan.
When the pup grew up it was long and leggy and
was an obvious mixture. This lady although had
grown to love her dog, was very upset that she
had purchased something of a mish mash.
I know that working and show are mixed occasionally
to improve the line. (So I have been told). However
surely doing this they need to be excellent specimens
of the breed. With out causing any offence as I am
sure they are lovely dogs, leave that job to the experts
that know exactly what they are doing!
Plus eye testing and hip scores should be done. I do not
think that just because you want a puppy is good enough
reason to breed this pair together. Talk to some cocker
experts, and seek their judgement on the matter. You have
to think further down the line, than just this immediate litter.
What happens when a bitch from that litter is bred, will they
then be working or show? Even I am no expert on this breed
so maybe someone could answer.
Look on the guided search on champdogs and go to cocker
breeders and ask them. At least getting a few ideas from
experts will help.
Nutkin

<I know that working and show are mixed occasionally to improve the line. (So I have been told).>

Don't think so, Nutkin :-) The working people certainly wouldn't want show blood in their lines - most are very disdainful of the show-type Cocker & the show breeders also wouldn't want working blood in their lines because Working Cockers differ so much in appearance to what show breeders are aiming for. Even the few show breeders who work their dogs stick to show breeding lines. Working Cockers & show-type Cockers are now virtually two separate breeds, though they still share the same name. The only times the two types are mixed tend to be when pet owners have one-off litters, as seems to be the case with Shirley's friend

Jane

Hi Jane & Everyone who replied,

Wow I wasn't expecting such a response. After reading all the replies and thinking it over, I have decided to get a cocker spaniel pup from a good breeder. I would love to be able to get a golden cocker spaniel.

Thats interesting to hear. I am glad someone
has told me that the two are not mixed. I did not
think they should be but when a cocker breeder
told my friend who owns the leggy mutt, that they
do it to improve the breed, infact she was told that
it improves the brain power. hmmmm I think someone
told a whopper somewhere along the line. Anyway
thats good to hear from someone that knows.
Sounds as if shirleys changed her mind know anyway
if you read above.
Thank you.
Nutkin.

Hi,
I am looking for a Cocker Spaniel due to a recent sad loss of our 11 year old Sheltie Barney and I have been reading these posts with interest ! Could someone tell me do working /show cockers look any different ? Do working Cockers have a particular colour ? How would I know the difference ?
Thanks,
Jackie.

Hi,
I am a working cocker breeder. I have 7 working cockers and no two are alike. This is due to the fact that working cockers are not bred for conformity to body type or colour, but working ability and temperament.

I own 2 goldens, 1 lemon and white, 1 lemon, 1 chocolate and 1 black.

The other poster was correct, most working people who know what they are doing would not touch a pedigree with show dogs in it. I am sure the same would go for people who know about show dogs.

A long time ago, the great, great grandmother of many working cockers was a bitch called Speckle of Ardoon. Apparently Speckle was a cross between a show dog and a working dog back in the sixties and became a top field trial champion.

There is a big call for working cockers in pet homes as they tend not to come with many of the diseases associated with the show variety. Rage, retinal atrophy and hip problems are unheard of and that comes not from me but my vet.

If you want to go ahead then do it, alternatively go true to type and find yourself a good woking cocker as a stud.

I often feel very sad that people in fact use a convenient dog anyway.

You are not the only person considering such a cross though and I have seen more and more show dog/working dog crosses. If you a dead set to do it then just do not mis represent the pups and you will not go far wrong.

Ian