Hi all,
Help my dog will not stop clawing at his halti whan where out he is starting to make his face bleed I keep on pulling him up and saying no but its the same 2 mins later its worse when we see another dog
It is the only training aid that I have tryed that stops him from pulling
any suggestions thanks
Sharon

Don't the Halti instructions say that you're not supposed to pull on them - that the dog's in control of the tightness of it? I'm sure I remember that from when I bought one.

Anyway, how did you train him to accept it before you started using it on him for walks? I was told to put it on my dog before I fed her or gave her a treat, and take it off again afterwards. After two weeks of doing that (indoors and out, with a lead on and without) she was eager to put her nose into it because she associated it with pleasure. When we progressed to using it for walking she was perfectly content to wear it.

Maybe you should start retraining him with it again. Hope this helps.
:)

Keep at it and DON'T let him claw at it. Say no and move him on quickly so that he has to trot :)

I agree that the dog needs to be trained to accept a halti, but have to say that I was not even able to move a couple of paces with mine in a halti as he hated it SO much. In the end we went back to having a titbit on the nose and eventually found out that having something to carry made him stop pulling - you just have to keep finding the article he was carrying as it is apparently not possible to pee or investigate a sniff properly with something in your mouth!

The Haltie head cage is a dogs nightmare, they are a punishment which probably causes more welfare risks than anything anyone could think to invent.

Psychologically they are often devastating, at the point someone puts them on the dog realises its going for a reward walk and is excited and overjoyed, all of a sudden the head cage is placed on if it moves the wrong way causes enough pain force the dog stop jumping.

In hundreds of thousands of case's the dog is so frightened at that stage it is in panic and cannot stop pulling and jumping around. The dog has no way of knowing why its owner has suddenly turned on it and punished it at a ponit it normaly goes for a walk with its freinmd, now being violent to it, a relationship can be destroyed in a few seconds with them.

They were invented by the Director of 'The Company of Animals' he's made fortune from them at so many dogs misery, blood and general mental expense, unfortunatly, yours is typical.

You are not alone on the board, the links below from this site show the reality of  'The Company of Animals' Haltie head cage.

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/37442.html

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?tid=61921

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/32595.html

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/31788.html

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/15434.html

What a load of toot! A Halti isn't a 'head cage', and it doesn't cause pain! :rolleyes: What are you talking about?

two minds with a single thought, JG :D

Margot

Hi Lofty

Firstly I wouldn't panic about either using a halti, nor psychologically damaging your dog, as suggested by Davedee.     He has very carefully "selected" negative texts about the Halti et al - and has ignored from those of us who have successfully used them, either as a training aid, or to keep very strong dogs under control.

Just persevere - you'll soon find you have a happy dog who will walk well on it.

Margot

I can only reiterate what Jeangenie and Margot have said about the Halti. ;)

They are NOT a punishment if used correctly, if you think about it, any dog collar,harness could be seen as a punishment if used by owners the wrong way.

I have had very good results with mine and have been using it successfully for nearly 2 yrs. I would go back to basics and retrain so that your dog associates good rewards with it. :)

For heaven's sake, ignore ANY information from Davedee - he's the guy who advocates the use of ELECTRICAL shock collars - and then has the temerity to complain about the danger of the Halti

I'd rather use a head collar (which is harmless if used correctly) than an electric shock collar! Meg has been using once sh=ince she was very young becuase she chased cars (which it helped to stop completely), becuase she pulled and now because she is slightly aggressive towards other dogs. Its a god send! Someone came into work with an electric collar on their dog, It sounds barbaric, i didn't realise they could give shocks that lasted 12 seconds! That is torture!
Original poster, try to create positive emotions about the halti. Put it on to eat, play e.t.c. and keep the dog distracted enough to ignore it. Meg doesn't even bother pawing at it now, she just accepts it like she does a collar and lead.

Davedee

You missread me.

I certainly did not say that they were cruel or reffer to them as a head cage! All I was trying to say is that they dont work an all dogs and you have to take each as an individual. My dog I found dosent really like anything round her face or neck, hence she is most relaxed in a harness. The other was most relaxed when carrying something. It is very much horses for courses.  i know a number of people who have had great success with Halti, equally some that dont either due to the dogs preference/temprement or the shape of their head. Forinstance a friend with a shar pei had to find a verson that did not ride up in to the eyes.

My dog  Charlie wears a dogmatic head collar and it certainlt isn't cruel. It would be cruel of me not to insist he wore one. Without one I wouldn't be able to control him on lead when he does somersaults trying to get to other dogs.
Charlie has had his nose bleeding on several occasions trying to get it off even though he was gradually introduced to one and has been wearing one for 5 months every day when he goes out.
He still claws at it now occasionaly and still freezes when I put it on and hides when it appears out the cupboard but it's something that has to be done.

i to use the dogmatic.. on both my boxers, yes they sometimes try to get them off, but i just ignore them and they soon settle, the are not cruel, it makes life a lot easyer when doing roadwork, being able to hold 2 leads in 1 hand and leaving  the other for treats when i want there attention on me,  its much better having a headcollar on than having a dog staining on the ead of a collar & lead choking himself to death. keep  going it will be worth it in the end.

Does this make me cruel leading my horses in a headcollar then???     A halti works on the same principal and is much kinder than seeing a dog choking on a chain or collar and much kinder than electic shock collars.

Bev

I use a Halti too. My Gabi is a GSD that could pull so hard without it. I am 60yrs young and without it Gabi would be confined to barracks. She doesn't like it, would much prefer to be out with Hubby and no Halti. Unfortunateley he works away from home during the week so its the Halti or nothing Monday to Friday. My experience is quite strange I think because I read an article about not allowing them to pull by freezing to the spot at the first sign of tention. I gave this a real good go, took ages but now we may only get one or two pulls for the whole walk. At first we were only managing one or two steps at a time. You really do not need to be getting anywhere, for a certain time. She does not walk exactly to heel but near enough for me. I became so confident with this method that I thought we don't need the Halti anymore, so I left it at home. Nightmare, she pulled for tugs taking me with her. I had to about face and go home (not safe to be out). I was very dissappointed as I thought I had cracked it. Next time I tried something different, put the Halti on but did not have the lead attached to it, only attached to her normal collar. Bingo!! this worked. So this is the stage were up to now, don't know if we will ever be able to do without it. 

Hello everybody,
I have been reading your posts for a while now, and finally, it seems, my computer has allowed me to register! (Please be patient with me while I find my way around)
Anyway, without comment to training methods otherwise favoured by Davedee, I would have to agree with him as regards to the head collars; I have seen countless numbers of dogs quite literally kicking and screaming as they are being "walked" in these and I am yet to encouter a dog that is walking nicely on the lead with a head collar on. I know some of you may think that I am the cruel one using a chain on my Giant Schnauzer, but having seen these head collars in action -and even tried one on my dog, which came off within minutes as she seemed to be losing her mind - I do consider them cruel. A retriever type dog that used to go to a training class I know came with a head collar on for months ; the poor mite rolled on the floor, screaming, even wet himself, and the trainer kept saying that "he will get used to it in the end". After three months the dog was still "getting used to it". This is cruel.

My mistake has been not keeping my dog on the lead very much, so that the lead behaviour now isn't brilliant. She mainly pulls when she is excited or afraid- she is very much a country dog and gets stressed in the town, which we avoid, so noise and traffic makes quite anxious. When I do put her on the lead, I expect her to walk to heel, and I must admit that at times this is brilliant- thanks to heelwork practice since the age of 8 weeks! (she is now 18 months). If she gets a bit bright and tries to get forward, I walk backwards and tell her to heel, and when she does she gets a reward. This is, however, quite straining for her, as her natural pace is faster than mine, so we only to lead walking when there are cars or similar around. The chain is there to help me control her - as there is nearly as much of me as there is her!-, should she try to pounce on something.

Why not invest some time and effort into teaching the dog to walk nicely on the lead, instead of using these quick-fix-miracles which appear to be extremely uncomfortable for the dog, based on what I have seen anyway. How will the dogs now what the acceptable way of walking is, unless we tell them? I am not having a go at anyone who has tried and failed at lead training, but simply suggesting that perhaps different dogs respond to different methods, and just because my dog doesn't respond the way the neighbour's dog does, doesn't mean I should run to the shops in search of a miracle cure, which - it appears around here- causes so much discomfort for the animal.  (and I am , of course, very pleased for every dog that has reacted in a positive way to the head collar, although I am yet to witness this myself)

Just a general tip which has been valuable for us- our dog does not like negative inforcement, even to the point that she wasn't returning to my husband until we realized that he was calling her in a commanding, deep voice, rather than the happy-happy voice which she is used to. Since I figured this out, and told my husband to only call her in a high, cheerful voice, she has  been as good with my husband as  she is with me. Also, if she thinks about pulling on the lead, tugging back or telling her off is counter-productice; instead, I distract her from the unwanted behaviour with a squeaky toy or a titbit, and then reward her for the right behaviour. Just worth considering if your dog is exercising his selective hearing more than he used to, ha-haa!

I don't use headcoillars on my current dogs, even though I walk ifve of them together dauly on the lead around traffic.

My expereience with ehad collars ahd only been positive for the exasperated or physically weak owners.  this means that many a dog has been saved from rehoming or not having walks at all, but I do live in a busy city, where the only optrion if you do not drive is to roaqd walk your dog, even if it is to the park or recreation ground for free running.

Most dogs do not alike the hlti or gentle leader simply because it does the job, it stiops them going where THEY want to go.  Any dog that is screaming in fear has obviously got a problem with it's temperametn and socialisation.

Avoiding the situations your dog didlikes is not really a solution, your dog needs more exposure to traffic if it is afraid, though I agree combinignthis with aclimatising it to any new equipment is a bad idea.

I have seen dogs who have never worn a collar or lead react just as badly as you describe for the halti when they have first been put on collar and lead. 

I own a determined and independant breed, and I thank a freind now deceased who owned them and also an even more primitive spitz to ensure pups became accustomed to collar an lead by 6 weeks of age. 

Any later and they will really kick up over the restraint.  I have had a puppy owner ring me who had failed to take this advice asking what to do with 5 month old pup who flatly refused to walk on lead.  The only option was to make it do so, using cajolery and reward with tasty food treat for the slightest compliance.

Hey guys. Im not saying they dont have a use, simply that they are not a panacea and if your dog finds it ever so stressful it may be worth considering other methods. After all a lot of dog training is about knowing your dogs temprement, preferences and building a bond of trust. If using a halti or similar is going to undo all that then it is probably not the best option. 

Buster is now 3 and a half years old but still acts like a puppy when walking sometimes. He is trained to walk on the lead and walk off lead by my side but when he gets excited he will not walk correctly but pull. Now i use either a half check coller or a gentle controller but he has his normal coller on as well. It depends on the situation as to which one i use, everyday walks its the halfcheck but when we go to busy places or somewhere he will get excited the gen con comes with us as he pulls so much he chokes but still keeps on pulling. As for titbits he is not interested in food and still pulls when he is carrying his ball :rolleyes:
I have tried the halti but changed to the gentle controller as the halti rode up to the eyes and he still pulled so i would suggest to try another head coller if your not getting on with the halti. My trainer lets us try different ones for a few days at a time till we find one that suits both the dog and us we buy it off her but if it doesnt work get a refund (as long as the dogs not eaten it LOL) so it keeps the cost down as it can take several attempts to get it right.

My point exactly - you use what is comfortable and appropriate. I know we have people in this village that walk 8 year old gun dogs on a halti - why because they have never bothered to train them.

I haven't used the gentle controlller, but at my own trainign class msot dogs get on with the canac gentle leader better than the halti.  Apart from wider softer webbing (though they pad the ahlti these days) it can be left on without getting chewed because of the adjuster that keep the nose loop around the chin and muzzle without slacking off when the lead is removed.  this can be handy for many people when they let the dog off the lead as it is more like a horse halter in that respect.

How does the gently controller differ fromt the gentle leader and Halti???  We have had problems with some of the short muzzled Staff crosses (we get a lot of these)(Boxers are easy) because of the football like head, to get one that works well, as they are usually too powerful to walk easily (mostly being untrained adolescentss/adults from dogs home).

I have not tried the gentle leader but the gen con is simular to the halti but doesn't run up into the eyes and helps to stop pulling. It cant be left on the dog with out the lead attached without supervision as they can get it off easily but it will not come off in use. It works by pulling on the right side not underneath and imo is more effective. It is easier to put on and you dont need to adjust any clips as there are none to adjust. It comes in 3 sizes so it might not fit all dogs it will be a case of trying one in the pet shop.

Yes we use the Gentle Leaders but did use haltis until it caused an infection in one of my dog's eyes as they rise up.  I also dont like them during the summer as they can stop the dog panting due to them closing the mouth if they pull hence why the gentle leader if better IMHO. 

People who think they can just put them on their dogs and they will accept them are wrong.  We went through about week of putting them on just before they were fed or during play etc which meant they were also associated with something good happening.  We now dont have any problems.

Time and patience is the name of the game...

Hi Brainless (honestly - was there ever such a CONTRADICTION in a name :D )

I have a Gencon lead/collar in front of me, and I'll try to describe it (because I can't find a webpage to refer you to :D ) - so please forgive me if this sounds really odd.

Think of a slip collar BUT instead of just one length of webbing with a metal ring at one end through which you would make loop that would go around the neck the webbing attached to the metal ring is doubled back on itself, stiched down for about two inches and then a chanel through the double webbing, and then stiched down for another two inches.  The webbing itself is threaded through the channel made by the double layer so that holding the lead handle in my left hand, at the "dog" end there is a figure of eight loop which can be as big or small as you want it to be (are you with me still??????) If I then take this figure of 8 loop in my RIGHT hand, I justslip it over my dog's head (doesn't matter which size dog), so that the smaller (top of figure of 8) lop is over the nose, and the other loop is over the neck - and there you are - dog on lead, on l/h side!!!

It goes on as quickly as a slip lead, and when I have 2, 3 or 4 dogs, all jumping up and saying me,me, me,me, I don't have to sort out which lead is which, nor struggle through an Aussie's "ruff" to attach a lead to a collar!

I do hope you can understand my description - I will try & find the GenCon website - which would make life easier.

Margot (who has visions of people tying themselves up in knots with the washing line :)

FOUND IT!!!!

Here's a website that illustrates it better than me :D  - sorry can't do links, so you will have to cut & paste :D

http://www.agilitywarehouse.com/product_detail.cfm?id=156

Hope this helps

Margot

This might help gentle controller :)
Oops Margot you beat me but I' clever lol

Why cant I do things like that !!!!

Margot (rolling on the floor & kicking the floor) :D

Margot its just {link http://www.agilitynet.com/shop/pages/gentlecontroller_advert_nov2001.HTML} here{/link} but use this[  bracket instead of { one
:D