>And, for the record, i never claimed to be a dog lover in general.

Well why exactly are you on this site?

Cross breeds can make very nice dogs and in my experience seem to be healthy, very intelligent and very individual and also seem to have long lives. :-)

What an excellent way to narrow the gene pools and firmly fix any defects. :(

I wont name breeds lest everyoen get up in arms.

I'm just amazed that anyone would think any breed (or crossbreed) as unimportant. They may not want to contemplate the notion of owning one, but I'd have thought all of them worthy of respect.

I am of the thinking that only pure breeds should be bred, anything else should be controlled. I also believe that all breeding should be limited to x amount of litters per breed per year, only affix holders and people who show shold breed and there should be a set price per pup, regardless of breed.

Everyone keeps whining over the amount of dogs in rescue, the number of pups returned to them or sold on without their knowlege etc etc. This would be a way to solve those problems.

I think it's pre-war Germany your ideas are coming from ..... 

Well these ideas worked!
Surely these problems need to be delt with, seems like the best solution to me. But its my opinon, dont expect anyone to take it on themselves.

Just as well no-one thought of this idea before your own breed was developed in a different direction and eventually split then - just imagine - all those American type Akitas born would have been speyed or euthanised years ago and you wouldn't be a breeder.  

Im not a breeder, no int he sense i should be, which is why i only have one bitch left that isnt spayed.

>Im not a breeder, no int he sense i should be<

Thedark, you've claimed to be before on the plus side, it's a God's blessing by the sounds of it if you've given up.  If you have such little regard or respect for canine welfare I can't see why you even keep dogs.  As for your remark >>>"Well these ideas worked"<<< re pre-war Germany you ought to be ashamed of yourself - but then I guess I should have expected no less.

Thankfully your extremist notions are unlikely to gain the interest of anyone with any morals so feel free to take the stage and spout this drivel, I shouldn't think the powers that be will be seeking your input on humane or welfare issues anyway.

Teri

roflmao!!!!!
Back to the old board i left 2 years ago.........
You really have adopted their mannerisms.

I am amazed....
I had a crossbreed from a rescue centre for 8 years and I felt so empty when he died. When I got him, I never considered what dog I was going to get, I didn't care as long I felt the connection there and I was right, he picked me and not the other way round.
Cross breeds can be amazing as you have the charteristics of 2 breeds and they can also be tempermental, but can't pedigrees be the same?
I don't know how anyone can criticise a dog just because its a mix of a couple of different breeds. If it wasn't for my fiance really wanting a Rottweiler, I would have be down at the rescue centre getting another cross.
Dogs are in rescue centres because of owners cirumstances or they got bored of the dog as they got bigger and less adorable. Some people still don't realise that a dog is for life and they are the ones that need educating.
I am not planning to breed my new pup (when it arrives) so I will have it sterilised when the pup is old enough. Its called resposible ownership.
Sorry, but I loved my cross and can find no complaints about him.

So you dont think that if someone  couldnt just go out and pick a dog up from anywhere, had to wait 2-3 years for it, that they would be a little more patient and would be certain that they wanted the dog?

You dont agree that if there were more strict measures in place the rescue centres would not be so full?

That surprises me.

And Teri, i have never professed to be a breeder, i dont churn out a litter every year and charge stupid amounts of money for them, i dont show, i have pets and will not be breeding any more for personal reasons that i shall not delve into now.

If you've ever bred a single litter, you're 'a breeder'.
:)

Not really. Not that it matters, i dont do it any more.
Im not getting into that debate with you people, i dont have the patience for you.

Who was their breeder, then? What does it say on their registration documents?

You don't have the patience for most dogs either, from what you say. :(

No just the bloody awful ones.

I like most breeds, there are just 4 or 5 that i cant abide. everyone has a pet hate.

i dont like all dogs,but genarally like or can "admire" most breeds. its just indiviual dogs i dont like,generally ones with a lack of personality,i like a dog with a GSOH

I wouldn't give houseroom to big fluffy ones, but each to their own.
:)

I am not diasagreeing that there are too many dogs in these centres, maybe better vetting of potential owners would be an idea. Why not bring back the dog license and make people pay more for that. The more people have to pay for a dog, then you will eliminate the owners that are going to mistreat and give up their dog.
When I get my new pup, the breeder is going to take a reference from my vet.

I was deffending the crossbreeds and all I was saying was that responsible owners would elimante unwanted pregnancies.

The one industry that needs to be abolished and quickly are puppy farms. They are ones that are mass producing dogs all year round. But if the government won't do anything about them, what can we do?

Thats part of my point. Lower puppy prices, £400 regardless of breed, and make people buy a licence to keep the dog, another £400 regardless of breed. Would solve problems.

Sorry, but it sounded like you were slating X breeds. Maybe I mis-understood.
That doesn't solve the problems with puppy farms that are selling very sick dogs that may end up in these rescue centres.

I was saying that any cross bred pups should be spayed, or destroyed. Destroyed wont happen, not here, so if everything was made incapable of breeding it would eventually end.

Crossbreeds come from purebred parents. Should all those be killed too? After all, if there were no dogs at all the rescue centres would be lovely and empty.

Some people prefer cross-breeds, not everyone wants to own a pedigree dog for a pet!  I agree with the dog licence being brought back but charge a lot for it and maybe if vets brought the cost of spaying and castrating down from over £100 per animal then people might have their bitches and dogs neutered. 

I was saying that any cross bred pups should be spayed, or destroyed. Destroyed wont happen, not here, so if everything was made incapable of breeding it would eventually end.

im sorry but it wont
look at all the pitbulls that should of been spayed in 1990 with the DDA
can you stil get a pit in the UK yes,
who would police this? the KC i dont think so, the Police? i dont think so the counsil? i dont think so

Thats the POINT. Someone should be responsible for these things.

Empty rescue kennls would be fantastic, no more tv ads begging for my money, no more dogs suffering from kennel stress for months on end, its perfect.

Laws to make sure crosses do not breed further would halve problems within a few years. And Jenegenie, there is no excuse for crossing any two breeds and allowing the pregnancy to progress. Cross bred dogs are not needed when there are thousands of other breeds to choose from. Maby there wouldnt be so many british breeds becoming so rare if people were forced to choose these over the  cross pups going free in the paper.

I wouldn't want anybody to be forced (your word) to buy any puppy.

so you agree that thousands of cross breeds are produced every week, go on to be abandoned or worse, allowed to repoduce again!
Honestly, its all gone mad!

The people here should want to see less crosses and less mongrels surely? You should want more strict guidelines to protect the dogs you breed, you should want laws in place to stop puppy farmers.

Or, do you secretly want the extra income from breeding? Do you want to see thousands of dogs from your breed being badly bred and brought up? Do you want to be conned by less caring people into releasing pups into their care?

Thats what i sounds like.

>You should want more strict guidelines to protect the dogs you breed, you should want laws in place to stop puppy farmers.

Yes, but not to the extent of destroying all the ones I don't approve of!

Crosses stop pedigree dogs from finding homes out of rescue! They are a menace and should be spayed to stop this from continuing in the vicious circle it has for the last od knows how long!
Im not saying destroy all labs and collies am i? in simply saying control the crossing of pedigrees and life will be much easier and pleasant.
I find it un-nerving when a mongrel comes tottering up to me and i have no idea whats in it or how to expect it to behave by using my knowlege of different breeds.
Again, after all the full over the british breeds becomeing dangerously rare here, shouldnt something be done to make people take the time to research breeds, find something that suits and do it properly, no grab the first mutt out the local rag?

I feel the same as you but with children.

If crosses stop pedigree dogs finding homes then doesn't that say that there must be a demand for crosses then and not for pedigrees.  If a pedigree is in a dogs home then why is it there if it is such a good dog.  I don't agree with breeding cross breeds particularly and never have done but I think maybe too many people have jumped on the bandwagon for breeding pedigrees too and its hard to know who is a good breeder and who is a bad one if you are not very well up on breeding.  I love all dogs whether they are pedigree or cross-breeds.  I can't think of a dog that I know that I don't like they are all beautiful in their own ways.  I don't go on the looks of the dog, its what is inside that matters.

To say that when a mongrel approaches you you don't know what to expect is utter rubbish.  They are just dogs like the others in fact you will probably find in a lot of cases they will be better tempered than the pedigree dogs that approach you.  The only problem with cross breeds are the owners who don't bother to care for them because they are 'only a cross breed' and thats hardly the poor animals fault is it.  A lot of pedigree dogs are nothing like they are supposed to be temprament wise.

I wouldnt kill a dog/puppy because it was a cross.

I think its totally down to education. Or there wouldnt be so many BREED rescues.

Um and no I dont want any income from breeding as Im educated enough to know that I do not have the knowledge or experience. 

So you would get my new pup put to sleep as it isnt a perfect representation of the breed standards. Dispite the fact he will never be bred from.

One slight fault make something very rare and you increase the price so your argument of price control would go out the window too.The black market would thrive then you would have to have police raiding peoples homes or breeding establishments to snatch the dogs that shouldn't exist or be bred from and then there would be the backlash when people rebelled against big brother taking away there freedom of choice.  No I don't think it would work somehow but it does make for  a good arguement doesn't it :rolleyes:

Hi Sarah,

How are you?  I've still got your Barnies' picture on my computer, he is lovely and as you say he is a cross-breed.  We got a rescue dog from the cats protection league about 16 years ago and she was the best dog that anybody could wish for.  She was a collie cross and she chose us like you said that Barnie chose you.  My ex-husband wanted a puppy which was a GSD X Rottweiler but Patch came to me and jumped up at me and looked into my eyes and she just wouldn't leave us alone even though there were other people looking at the dogs.  I think there was about five or six of them all in a room which used to be an hotel but was closed and used for the cats protection league.  I just knew she was the one so we brought her home (they didn't do homechecks in those days, just asked where we lived and if we had a house or a flat) and she promptly had diarrhoea all over the carpet, think she got a bit worked up in the car and it turned out she hated cars and would do anything other than get in one.  She met our other dogs (a spaniel x collie bitch and a male toy poodle and they were all the best of friends and never had a fight (although she was very greedy at feed time and would finish her meal in seconds and wait impatiently to see if the other two dogs left anything and as soon as they walked away she would pounce on the bowl and eat what was left.  When we had children she was brilliant with them and would walk in front of them if we were out on a walk with them, to protect them.  If I could find another like her I would have another dog tomorrow.

Hi
I am doing well, and Barnie is still looking out the front window, just haven't got the heart to scatter his ashes to hard and thats why it annoys me that some people think Xs should be destroyed as pups, then I would have lost the best 8 years of my life....
We are hopefully getting a puppy at the end of June, I know it will never be the same as Barnie, but Sam the staff is finding it a little hard and keeps looking round for his friend when we go for walks.
I had a home check and 3 months on had another one (was meant to, but I met her walking in the park and we started yapping and could see that barnie and I were doing well).
I know that a new dog will never replace the one you've lost, but I would assume that their personalities would be completely different.
How are all your dogs doing?

Hi Sarah,

Yes it is definitely going too far to say stamp out all cross-breeds so that people will have to choose pedigree dogs.  Stamping out puppy farmers and closing down kennels selling these puppies would be the way to go I think and then gullible people wouldn't buy them.  The cross breed dogs are probably healthier than these poor puppy farm dogs whose mothers and fathers are put through hell.

Good luck with your rottweiller puppy when you get it.  I have only got the one dog at the minute but may have another one in a few years when my daughter gets less of a pest :-)

Thedark, you say the only people allowed to breed should be those who show their dogs in the breed ring. One of my bcs is a pedigree dog but he comes from working lines. He or his relatives would be laughed out the breed ring yet he excells at what he was bred for - 'working', which in his case includes agility, flyball and obedience. Dogs suited for the breed ring are not always suited to working lives and vice versa.

Hi ClaireH :)

Unfortunately you're putting a valid and totally reasoned argument to someone who has no sense of reason nor shows any consistency about what she says.  Thedark advocates all dogs bred from should have at least won a CC in the breed ring - yet has bred herself (although denies being a breeder ) and admits to not showing so presumably should have euthanised her own litter(s) with this philosophy.   She has also clearly stated that she lays no claim to being a dog lover

Fortunately thedark's views would appear to be in splendid isolation on this forum - which I would imagine is pretty much the norm for a forum dedicated to lovers of dogs of all shapes, sizes and origins.

Regards, Teri ;)

thedark..

Whatever happened to the saying "It's on the inside that counts"...

So if I urgently wanted a specific breed this summer, and the breed waiting lists were a few years long. What do I do?? Wait a few years til I can get it?? Choose a different breed that doesn't suit me and isn't what I want? STEAL the nice dog from down the road and breed from it because I know they are in urgent demand!! (Which I would NEVER do, but this is the sort of thing that would happen if you had your way)

Or go to a rescue center and ignore that beautiful, healthy, perfectly sound, well behaved, loving little cross-breed dog in the corner that  deserves to be DESTROYED because he isn't purebred, and choose that unhealthy, aggressive dog with all sorts of problems (because his genes are limited).. no but that's okay, he's PUREBRED, he's allowed to have aggression problems he's PUREBRED! That makes him worthy of anything!! I think I'll have him, he's special!!

By the way, do you know the reason of Purebred dogs?? Do you know why there are breeds, why they were invented in the first place? It's because they had a purpose. Dalmations were bred to run along horse carriages. Fox hounds were bred to hunt foxes etc.. Seems as these purposes aren't needed anymore.. should we just get rid of these dogs?? Yeah, why not?! Let's just spay them all, or have them destroyed!!

There are a few breeds still doing what they were originally bred for in the first place, but the majority are just companions. Which a crossbred dog is more than capible of doing!

I am perfectly aware of what "working" is and how it is done. I forgot to menton Field Trial champions in my statement about only breeding from champs and the working dogs come under this IMO. I am also aware of what most breeds were bred for and what their purposes were and in some cases still are. However, despite them not being needed to work any more, they are still purebreeds and should continue to be shown and worked where possible.

As i stated before, i do not show, nor do i breed any more for this reason. All of my bitches, bar one, have been spayed and i shall never breed again.

I didnt say anything about limiting gene pools. Any good, dedicated breeder would import for new blood, money no object. Anyone who claims not to be able to afford this should not be breeding.

No, you didn't say anything about limiting gene pools, but that's what will happen if you keep litters to a minimun and only breed from champs

Unless people cough up and pay for impoted sperm or dog. Its not difficult. And i did say ok maby champs was a bit too far earlier and maby a cc winner would be ok. Please read the full thread, dont just jump in mid way without knowing what has been said.

Yeah I did read it all actually, and that's not the only thing you went a bit too far on.

Well since you are entitled to THAT opinion i'm entitled to mine Ana. Its a valid point, especially where im living at the moment, and something that needs to be looked at everywhere!

Yes, but mine are reasonable.

Do you own a crossbred dog?? Have you owned all of the crossbred dogs in the UK? I think not!!

And with that lack of experience, what makes you think all crossbred dogs deserve to be destroyed??

It's called being prejudice!

Why the half-measures, thedark? Why not go the whole way to protect our native breeds by destroying all those that originated abroad?