Hi Teri

I am amazed that you think that 75% of Labs are iffy :)

I have had Labs for over 18 years and know so many Labs amongst other breeds and there is only one real iffy Lab I can say I wouldn't trust with a barge pole.

They are not in anyway that natured and do think that is a bit of a sweeping statement :)

What are your normal walks as they must be some way off my normal walks :)

Lucy
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Perhaps your used to well bred labs, id assume they would be sociable but look how many gazillions are back street bred, as for blondiflops you where well in order, you did no wrong or your dog, and your right maybe the lab getting a taste  of what it normaly gives out might make it think twice.

It is the assumption and over quoting I am trying to get over.  What does 'Gazillions ' mean ? :)

Why does where I live make a difference if we have well bred Labs ? I have lived in in 5 Different places since I have had Labs and will say the same for all places I have lived in :)

I am well aware of the problem with over breeding but saying 75 % of Labs are iffy is a sweeping statement :)

Lucy
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Id not say 75%   , but there are  more than before out there that arent so nice

Well we have had Labradors for twenty years ,not a bad bone in there body,in fact I have never came across a aggresive Lab,i dont think there are any bad dogs but plenty of bad owners.

Sheila.

Sadly I ahve met aggressive labs in teh park, and even saddder the only time I have had a dog attack ohne of my girls ws a Lab at a show. 

Luckily I pulled her onto her back legs so he made contact with her chest hair rather than her face, and his owner had manged to purll him just short of being able to get a good grip.

The owners excuse was that he was protective of her puppy.  This was walking mine along the gangway (rather narrow) between wall and ring at an Open show.

Have also seen Labs flying out at passing dogs at a Champ show some 10 years ago now, my freind whose father bred and shot over labs in the 50's and 60's said he would have turned in his grave to see such untypical temperament.

This applies to most breeds,my friend has a poodle and she can be very aggressive indeed.
Sheila.

Hi Lucy, I didn't say 75% of Labs are iffy :)  If you had read what I said above, ie.

>I'd say at least 75% of Labs I've met on walks have got iffy to downright vile temperaments with other dogs - this is not intended as slagging off Labs, I've family who own beautifully natured ones<

etc., etc.  you would realise it's far from being a sweeping statement - it clearly says it's my personal experience of those Labs I've met on walks!  Please don't try and read anything more into it.  If I've met say 12 Labs on my routine doggy excursions and 8 are agressive, bingo - 75% - small sample admittedly compared to the 44,000+ KC reg annually but then I'm sure you can't define the temperaments of many in that number either ;)  As a breed I like Labs and know that nastiness is *not* typical of well bred, correctly raised ones - doesn't mean that there aren't lots of *backstreet bad boy* types does it (not included in the KC reg ones) :(

>What are your normal walks as they must be some way off my normal walks<

Certainly "some way off" - I'm in Glasgow and see your in Cambridge <LOL>  Regards, Teri (closet Lab luver ;) )  

(insomnia - again :rolleyes: )   Appears I've managed to reduce the % rate to 66.66  <LOL>

Alas a mere typo - more to do with the % proof of a rather delicious white Zinfandel than a late night rec mission of the local canine population :D

Teri :P

Hi again Lucy,

Tried to add to above that you don't seem to have noticed in my slightly later reply to Brainless that I said

>you're so right about it being out of character to have aggressive Labs<

Perhaps some people may think that's a sweeping statement too   I didn't intend to offend anyone involved in Labs but I stand by the fact that I've called it like it is *in my location* and based on* my experience* whilst making it perfectly clear that *I know it is not typical of the breed*

Hope this clears up any confusion, Teri :)

Hi Teri

It just seems an awful lot whether 75% or 66.6% :D

I was just wondering where you are as is there a breeder that is near you maybe that it producing in mass and perhaps there lies the problem?

Lucy
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Hi lucy,

I'd imagine that with the unfortunate over breeding of Labs there are more than a few breeders of a less reputable mould within most areas :rolleyes:   I live within literally a few minutes drive of open countryside and have several public parks within easy reach - my house literally overlooking one.  Glasgow is a VERY large place and the Labs which I've referred to are spread across a wide cross-section of dog exercise areas :(

regards, Teri :)

i totally agree with you Lucy. I for one have never come across an iffy Lab and my own is a big softy who gets bullied by next doors cat! I don't think people should criticise any breed of dog on the evidence of a mere few.
'75% of labs are iffy' was this an April fool?

Unfortunately there are iffy Labs and I know one especially who has an excellent pedigree but unfortunately has been brought up in such a way that the dog in question thinks he is the top dog in the house and also outside. :( He attacks a lot of dogs he meets and unfortunately the owners don't seem to think it is a problem :( He has had a go at me once and soon made him aware of my feelings on the matter :) We have friends who have a super black Lab who is 11 and is a lovely dog. He has been attacked a few times by this dog and the owners I know are getting more than peed off. :(

Lucy
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LisaW

>'75% of labs are iffy'<

Just who exactly said that then?

Oh I'm not going on about what was specifically said but I think we know that this was implied. I think this is also why staffie owners get annoyed because things are implied about staffies and then all dogs of that breed get labelled as 'aggressive' and it is very upsetting to owners that have prime examples of good natured dogs at home.

Hi LisaW

>Oh I'm not going on about what was specifically said but I think we know that this was implied<

Oh right - I see where you're going with this.  It has nothing to do with exchanging information or relaying personal experiences but about twisting words and shooting the messenger when you don't like the message :rolleyes: (or, more accurately, an observation) Selecting those parts of a post which are most easily corrupted rather than viewing the greater picture where unacceptable behaviour has been acknowledged as being untypical of the breed won't change anyones opinions about the specifically referred to examples nor improve the temperament of same however I am glad you cleared that one up ;) I had foolishly assumed you were actually reading what was written

Teri

I dont get what the big deal is! I understood perfectly well that teri was talking about the labs she has come in contact with personally.I would have to say 99% of the staffs i've come in contact with have been dog aggressive :( Now i'm not talking about all the staffs in the world,just the ones i have met :)

What keeps coming to my mind is the owners of these dogs.Do they know the true joy of owning a dog? Taking my dogs for a walk is the most enjoyable and relaxing part of my day,i cant imagine it would be either of those things if i had a dog who didnt like other dogs.Will these owners ever know the feeling of unclipping their dogs lead and letting their dogs run free in total piece of mind,watching them play with other dogs and all the other things dog should do??

I sometimes look after my mum's maltese,now this dog was never socialised as a youngster(it used to belong to my sister who had no idea about dogs and thought it would be nice to get one for the kids!! ) she will try to  attack any dog that she see's,big or small, and the odd man that she doesnt like the look of :rolleyes: She never gets the chance to run off the lead with my dogs,or go swimming in the river or any of the things my dogs or most other dogs take furgranted,i am  an absolute nervous wreck when i get home with her,walking her is not at all enjoyable for her or for me,it only causes stress and, embarrasment when you get "the look" from the other dog owners!Now this is a tiny 6kg fluffy,cutesy dog,i would imagine it would be 100 times worse with a staff on the other end of the lead :(

I guess i feel sorry for these owners and their dogs,will they ever know the real joy of owning a well socialised dog and all the benefits that come along with it?
Do these aggresive staffs get plenty of socialisation when they are pups?are they naturally aggressive,or what is it????

Hi Rose :)

>Taking my dogs for a walk is the most enjoyable and relaxing part of my day,i cant imagine it would be either of those things if i had a dog who didnt like other dogs<

I know - same here.  My lot regularly meet up with dogs of all shapes and sizes and it's great socialisation for everyone's dogs.  Yesterday I met up with the "Saturday afternoon KC" - don't usually see them at that time :P - eight small dogs, 7 pedigrees of different breeds and 1 tiny bitzer of goodness knows what origins - and my galloping three who outsized/outweighed them all considerably <LOL>.  What's great is I know that for all their rough and tumble games with larger or stockier breeds they play slower chasing games with the tinies and seem to know to be a bit more careful and never flatten or intimidate any of them :)  Equally the smaller dogs seem to enjoy trying to "herd" mine :D  I'm going to have to plan my future Saturdays around meeting up with this gang (although we meet them all in varying numbers regularly anyway) - it was just such good fun for all concerned, dogs and owners.  That's the way it should and COULD be for everyone with a bit of effort and consistency in training.

Regards Teri :) 

My staffie was VERY well socilised as a pup.

Ring craft every week
Puppy classes
Played with a large group of dogs allmost every day.

When she got to about 3 yrs old she changed & allthough she will still get on with a lot of dogs she will not put up with being threatend & she  will have a go :-(

You must remember what they were bred for in the first place & staffies are so much better with other dogs now than they were even 10 yrs ago.

We still have of lead walks as  she has good recall even if there is another dog about - its only if the dog comes up to her we 'MAY' have problems.

Jo

Teri,
I wasn't going anywhere with it actually...so don't assume I'm a trouble maker! It is just typical of some people just to reply to a post were they can have a go at someone, and before you bite my head off I did not mean you.
For example I have posted a queston regarding my dogs health two days ago...no one has replied to that but as soon as someone wants to pull you up about somehthing there is a flurry of replies.

Hi LisaW,

>It is just typical of some people just to reply to a post were they can have a go at someone, and before you bite my head off I did not mean you<

As it was me who you originally misquoted I think perhaps you might understand why I would believe you meant me ;)

> but as soon as someone wants to pull you up about somehthing there is a flurry of replies<

Believe me, I know the feeling :rolleyes:   I've not posted on many topics over the last week and haven't got close to reading even a fraction of them but I'm sure others will simply have missed your post too - they are a pretty helpful bunch on here, particularly on health issues.

Regards, Teri :)
ps. I don't go in for the "biting off heads" thing :P

has any 1 got any advise on meg,shes been a little minx .ive worked out shes better with male dogs off there lead .but male/female on lead she goes for barking and straight for the neck.she dusnt give them a chance! im not enjoying taking here out as much anymore,i love her to bits.but i cant take her out with out her causing trouble,the other owners just laugh coz of the size of her,even the most well natured dog she still goes for them! ive tryed distraction with her and the other dog.so hopefully shede feel safer.but nothing seems to work! i would like to get another dacs next year,but i dont want to end up with 2 dogs with bad habits.can anyone recomend a good behavourist? or any advice to put thing rite?

I haven't read all of this thread, but I would like to add something to it.............when I see a staff coming I don't even flinch, they IMO are no worse than any other breed. In fact I have never had a bad experience with one. My middle collie is a thousand times worse than any staff I have ever known.

Blondiflops, you are a responsible dog owner who doesn't let your dog charge up to others without checking first. Regardless of what breed you own that, IMO, makes you a sensible, responsible person. I don't believe your comment about the other dog coming off worse was meant as it was taken, more as relief your pup wasn't hurt. And as you said, hopefully the lady will think twice about letting her dogs invade the space of other dogs now.

When I see another dog approach I usually call my collie back and hold his collar until the other dog has gone. You would be amazed at how many people don't get this hint! :rolleyes: None of my dogs are allowed to approach others without checking first. Yet I still end up with dogs in his face because the owners are incapable of calling them back. If he is on lead/collar and they get close enough to get bitten, it is their fault. My dog is under control, it is up to them to control theirs. Fortunately it has never happened, not because they don't get close enough, but because he has just never bitten anything, thankfully.

I hope your pups wonderful temperament is not tainted because of his experience. I am sure he will be fine.

Best of luck, Claire  

Well said Claire, particularly

>I hope your pups wonderful temperament is not tainted because of his experience<

I think Blondiflops behaved as any responsible dog owner should and also that her annoyance during and after the event was perfectly understandable.  One small part of her post taken completely out of context :rolleyes: - she just needed to vent off a bit and lots before her have done so in a similar vein - there was clearly no harm intended nor should any have been done.

Best wishes, Teri ;)

Hi Sarah,

It could be that a regular good training class could help you overcome this problem - you have still only had Meg a very short period and are still learning lots about her I'm sure. 

In any event, why not start a new thread for advice on this - I think your concerns may be lost on this one which has become too lengthy and somewhat sidetracked :)

Regards, Teri.

yeh i will thanks!

Havent been on in a while, saw this and thought i would add.....

I know what it is like to have another dog set uppon yours while on lead. I have seen myself be pleased that my 4 month old pup has done a good job of defending its-self against (dare i say it) a badly behaved lab. Owning such a large breed members of the public are a little cautious of them, and i do my best to subdue their concerns and i allow my dogs to say hello, have a sniff and play on their long leads, NEVER off.
Unfortunately people still think that Labs are good off the lead, good with other dogs and train easily naturally and so do very little work witht heir pets. Off they go into a public area, let the dog off and hey presto a well controlled dog, on it lead since the owner respects laws and regulations and doesnt have their animal running loose in public places, is set upon and hell breaks loose as the controlled dog puts up a very defensive fight to protect its-self and owner. It is not just labs, its the same with border collies, Goldenies, pointers, spaniels the list is endless. :(

I know that Staffs have a terrible reputation that is really unfair to them. I have known many, far too excitable, far too pleased to see people, far too desperate to play and their high pitched whiney squeel is read (by humans) as a threat and the fear travels down the lead to the dog that it wants to play with. Too many times have i seen people have to leash their staffs in a place where other dogs are playing off lead bacause of the owners' opinions and bad feeling towards the breed. Its discusting!

Give me a staff as a play mate for my dogs over a lab or border collie any day. All the staff owners i know are far more careful with training that the lab/collie/goldie etc owners i know and im sure you are the same as them.

I am not, althought it reads that way to many no doubt, tarring all owners of the said breeds with the same "dont train their dogs, bad owners, their fault" brush. That would be rediculous as it is certainly not the case. But remember, people here are dog people, show, train, work, and make sure their pets are people and dog friendly. You all have the passion there to make sure your dogs are trained to very high standards and recognise any dog-dog problems and act accordingly. Others out there do not share your responsible thinking and actions.

Blondieflops, i am glad your baby was not hurt in the unfortunate incident ad hope there is no lasting psychological effect on him. :)
The Dark

the problem with collies is that they give abit of "eye" & alot of dogs take this as a threat

How could you be sooo mean to labradors. They are a lovely breed of dog and would never hurt a fly. Okay so they are boisterous but they most definetly are not AGGRESSIVE. But hey , so can any other breed of dog.

Bernese
xxxx

Im speaking through personal experience. The can be terrible and its down to lack of training every time!

How could you be sooo mean to labradors. They are a lovely breed of dog and would never hurt a fly. Okay so they are boisterous but they most definetly are not AGGRESSIVE. But hey , so can any other breed of dog.

Bernese
xxxx

the same way ppl are being so mean to Staffords
why do we have to put up with ppl saying what they want about our breed and we cant say what we want about there's.  yes staffords can be aggressive but so can lab's and any other breed.   there are a lot of stafford around here but twice as many Lab's and i would say over half are dog aggressive. and out of that half 90% of them are never put on a lead.  but only 1 or 2% of the staffords are let to run free and meet other dogs they do not know.  2 of my dogs are fine with all other dogs they meet 1 is not.  so what do i do put all 3 back onleads if i see another dog coming my way.  what do 90% of the other dog owners do let there dogs run up to my ON LEAD dogs to say hi.  well i am lucky to say that she has never got hold of a dog yet but that is only cos i dont let her. 
all dogs she be on lead if they are meeting a dog they dont know

Yeah, not their fault but people here and where i used to live failt o train them appropriately and have them run riot on beaches, in parks, etc etc.

Its a shame really. Im sure they are a very nice breed when trained properly. As are many others im sure :)

people get a BC & expect it to be "ready trained" you see! they are a FAB breed but need owners that understand them

What I really find strange though is someone can post that they find the Infamous tripe hound unreliable and agressive with other dogs and someone will come back and defend them saying no no there far more reliable than the long coated whistle dog.  Which ever breed is mentioned there will always be someone who has a different experience of that particular breed but there is one common denominator in all cases and i think thats where the cause of the problem lies. JMHO

Blondiflops, firstly let me say, sorry you and your pup had to go through all that. When all said and done I can understand your emotions.

This is really not a case of a Labrador or a Staffy, it was just that those happened to be the two dogs in the equasion at the time.  Personally I do not know any staffies as there are only two that I know of in my locality and have had no contact with either.  However, I do know many many Labs.  And I would love to defend them, they are my breed and my passion.  But, as with any breed there are the rogues, ether due to bad breeding or bad handling, or a persons worst nightmare, both   I personally have witnessed Labradors in full fight, not only are they large heavy dogs, but they are agile and quick, unlike most large breeds. This in itself is enough to wary of.  But as with all breeds the main problem lies with the handler/owner and lack of knowledge and understanding of the particular breed they own, regardless of which breed it may be. With this lack of understanding, most owners neglect to notice slight changes in body language in certain crucial situations, at this stage there is no lack of control, it is total loss of any control whatsoever.  :(

Neither breed is at fault, but the owner of the dog off lead, regardless of breed ;)

theres a very bad example of a lab up the road. shes just had her 2nd litter, sigh.

And these bitches will continue to be bred because "oh labs are great, they dont need much training, can be just let off the lead and they're no bother".

Bring on the restrictions on how many litters can be bred, per breed each year!

exactly, & at £250 a pup, (with no extra costs apart from a £5 ad in the paper) thats a nice bit of extra money for a family with a load of kids. think she had 8 pups.

Thats discusting. But then i wouldnt pay a fiver for a champion lab lol. Not my thing, at all.

I think if we adopted the dog breeding laws they have in germany these problems would arise less and less. Only champion dogs can be bred from, only the champion dogs with perfect health test results can be bred from (this narrows it down to practically none lol) any none champion litters bred will have to be spayed at the earliest convenience (no messing, its got to be done, end of story). There are very few dogs with health problems there, they are very careful witht heir breeding dogs, and, because the majority are champion sired etc they are priced as such, making it difficult for people wanting to breed and breed and breed them to get hold of them in the first place either through lack of money, failing to meet the breeders standards as a potential owner or any other reason.

I think this country is too soft on people making a killing from breeding dogs. Too many people kick out litters each year, using the same terrible bitch, the same grumpy stud with a gimpy back leg. Its rediculous.

I agree with that!

Although I have had 3 staffies over 10 yrs this will be the first litter of puppies I have had.

Allthough she is not a champion she has won BIB at an open show & qualified for crufts when a puppy (3rd minor puppy), passed all her health tests (hips & eyes), good temperment, pup to a good stud who is not yet a champ but well on the way (2cc's) & only 14m old though.

I have seen others who dont even know what health tests are, their dogs are nowhere near the breed standard, but they still breed a litter from them every year :-(

I think puppies should be endorsed untill they prove themselves but this would still not stop people breeding.
I have seen un registed staffies for sale for £400.00 ++ :-(

Jo
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Well maby not have it solely champs but make sure they have been shown and hold at least one cc. Anything bred without this minimum qualification will be spayed and or destroyed.
Hey presto, rescue centres are only half full!!!

Add to this being made to have a license to keep dogs (preferably with home check by local authority) and bring down the price of pups to an all round £400 or whatever and the doggy world would be wonderful.

Good idea - having a cc or stud book no would be great.

If you have a good dog you would not need to atend loads of show for this.

I dont drive so can only go to 2-3 champ shows a year but would love to do more if I could!  

I def think the kc should only register the pups of health tested parents.

The public should also be made aware of the pitfalls of buying from un-heath tested parents - but how this could be done I have no idea :-(

Jo
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Thedark

>Anything bred without this minimum qualification will be spayed and or destroyed. Hey presto, rescue centres are only half full!!!<

Dog lover?  strange post indeed.  Why don't we just follow places like Korea, torture and club them to death, feed their flesh to the *quality* end of the market and use their skins for fancy bedding - to be used exclusively for those with tickets of course

Teri 

Teri, is this men we are talking about if so I agree whole heartedly.

Unfortunately it's dogs thedark's "words of wisdom" are about :(

Well it would solve problems.

To put such a law in place where anything bred without meeting said requirements would have its yung either spayed or humanely destoyed would limit the number of dogs bred per year, cut the number of cross breeds (thank goodness), strays and puppies dumped because the waiting lists to get a dog would be very very long, breeders would be much more careful who pups were sold to as they may not be able to breed again for a very long time and everyone would win.

And, for the record, i never claimed to be a dog lover in general.

So does that mean two of my three dogs would have to be pts as they are rescues and no health tests were done on their parents? The other one came from health screened parents and has more health problems than the other two put together!

You've moved on from some previously rather questionable advice to the downright offensive.

>And, for the record, i never claimed to be a dog lover in general<

Silly me, there was me thinking someone pontificating on a board of dog lovers held some regard for the welfare of all dogs regardless of breed or breeding.  However that would certainly explain much of what you write :(

>And, for the record, i never claimed to be a dog lover in general.

So what breeds aren't worthy of your interest?