On another line I saw that older dogs are advertised for sale, and I just wondered what you would do as a breeder if you found out the 'puppy' was one you had bred? Would you follow up and either refund the purchase price if asked to regain ownership, or pay the price the owner is asking?

Without a doubt!    When we sold our puppies, we used a contract, under which we agreed that the puppies were in good health, were sold with endorsements, which would be lifted if all health checks were carried out and results were satisfactory.   We also stated that we would take back any puppies AT ANY STAGE OF THEIR LIVES if the circumstances of the new owners changed.

They agreed to carry out all necessary health checks, and to keep the puppies in a healthy condition environment, and also if circumstances changed, that they would contact us first and foremost.

In my view, it's the only thing that a responsible breeder can do - to quote the Ford advert - it may be your dog, but its my baby!

Margot

without a doubt, in fact i did this last year i was browsing in loot on line and saw a advertisement for a puppy for sale ect.
it wasnt until i noticed the telephone number that the alarm bells started to ring. Anyway i called the seller and yes it was one of my pups i told him i would buy the puppy and that if he had read all the paperwork he took from me when he first bought the pup he wouldnt have needed to advertise him.well i found another home for the puppy and its all turned out ok im pleased to say goodness knows what would of happened to him

No question! I do put in my contract that if a dog I bred has to be rehomed (whatever age, whatever reason) I should be first port of call, but I know from a breeder friend that this does not necessarily happen - she had to rescue one of hers from Battersea - but I certainly would pull out all stops to get one back, whatever it took.

I've only been in this situation once, didn't offer to take it back straight away but I did find it a new home within a few days.  Now she couldn't be in a better home and has such a wonderful life.

Some people do amaze me and up to now it's people that have been in dogs for years.  Just heard about one who the person only had him for 12 hours and wanted him sending back because he wasn't house trained.  This was a well known person, it does amaze me at times as to what people want from a dog.

hi i bought a puppy back only a few days ago,because the new owners said they couldnt cope,they had only had him for two weeks i couldnt bare the thought of him being somewhere he wasnt wanted so i took him back at half past midnight to ensure i would get some sleep without worrying that one of my babys was unhappy,i paid the full perchase price and found him a good home two days later .....

i had much the same - a cocker (show type) pup i bred went to his new home - he was there maybe ***30 mins max*** and did his first poop. They decided that they couldnt cope with house training so he came back and arrived back at me at approx 2am in the morning for full refund. These were people who had waited a year and who I gen thought were going to be a lovely family home for the pup. Hopefully the pup just thought he was on a wee car ride as he wasnt in their house long enough to explore it. as was getting near Christmas (but this original family had been waiting for a year so def wasnt a xmas whim purchase) I decided to keep him until mid Jan before deciding on another home for him...

I know what you mean Perrodeagua. I often hear rumours about established breed folk returning pups, rehoming dogs they've had for years etc I don't know if there's any truth in those rumours, if I'm just too soft hearted but I think it's awful. Perhaps it's one thing to return a pup, but to sell a dog you've owned for years since birth....well I couldn't do it.

Spook I'm exactly the same as you.  So what if Anton is slightly too tall for the breed I could never ever get rid of him, he is here for the rest of his life.  One person in my breed re-homed a dog at 11 years, I just couldn't do that.  Some people may think I'm daft but I fall in love with my dogs from the moment I get them.  I've had hard times with some but I've never got "rid" of them, except for Lana who my parents have.  I could have persevered but unfortunately I think that it would have ended up that either Lana or her grandma would have been dead and I couldn't have that.

I would always take onof my baby's back, after all we brought them into this world, regardless of age they are part of our family too .

I would always take my babies back and like many of you I get contracts signed by new owners. I had a situation a few months ago that led me to check out the legal position of the contract and was told by a solicitor that specialises in canine law, that the contract 'holds no water' in court. I would be interested to know if anyone has looked in to producing a contract that is legally binding?

By the way, I did offer to buy this dog back and the owners would not part with him. Although I am not happy with this home, there is nothing I can do legally.

Debbie

Why exactly would the contract hold no water?

Dogs are sold under The sale of goods Act. In other words if you sell them the owner takes full entitled ownership just like buying a pair of shoes. So they can sadly do what they like with the dog. ( Except the endorsements with the KC but this is nothing to do with "REAL" ownership)

All this being true I still think it is worth doing puppy contracts so that if the need arises a breeder can argue they have done all they can and also half the people in the country don't have the foggiest clue about the law. :-)

I agree with you Blue, if an owner of a puppy can't cope I think they would want that option of the puppy going back to the breeder.

I know of a case where the new owner and breeder ended up in court over a puppy contract (different reason from this) and the breeder lost although the terms of the contract were broken. I put the contract in place in the hope that the purchaser will THINK it has clout.

hi yes i would take any of my puppies back, i bred six beautiful staffy puppies for love and not money, i gave each of them away on the condition they would return to me should any of thier owners circumstances change, they all lived locally and i see at least two of them and the father of the dogs most days. the others i see on a regular basis. if one of them happens to escape they all come home to mum and are well known around the estate.
A friend of mine bred german shepherds and had contracts raised for thier sale. sadly one of her beautiful pups her favourite as it happened was rehomed by the owner and given to a gentleman who drank alot and eventually ended up mistreating the dog both physically and mentally and starving it so bad it had to be euthanaised. My friend has never bred since and cannot forgive herself for the animals suffering she refuses to breed again.
The breeder we got our puppy from travelled over 400 miles to retrieve a small puppy who had only been with its owner for 1 month in the mid of winter. the person gave the puppy up with all its papers to a rescue centre as she could not cope with housetraining. thank god there are some genuine dog lovers out there.

Has anyone heard of such cheek-read this-I bred a litter of 6 beautiful Springer spaniels,the first 5 went as soon as adverstised and the last one a family came to see who could not make their mind up.I told them that it was not a decision to be taken lightly,and as they had not owned a dog before as a family they should think about all the implications and work that dogs bring.The bloke in the family had owned dogs before he married,so he knew a little bit.To cut a long story short,we held the dog for nearly 2 weeks until they made up their mind,they consulted witha vet,bought books,I typed out a 4 page information document,detailing how to look after the puppy,play time,feeding,vaccs,worming,training/discipline-every thing you could think of to help them.I was glad that they were going to take the owning of a puppy very seriously.Then the night mare began!!!
I told the family to ring me when they wanted advice,and for the next couple of weeeks I got phone call after phone call about the "viscious dog".
They said thet the 8 week old puppy-yes thats right 8 weeks old-was ferrocious and thet the children could not play with it,it pulled at their trouser legs and it had caught her son with its sharp teeth when it "attacked "him-are you getting the picture?I explained that the dog was only a puppy and that they did this until educated otherwise.I told her to ensure he had plenty of toys,and time to play and that they should remain calm as so to not over excite the puppy.I told her how to safely open the pups mouth if need be and use a firm NO when it got too rough-no this was not enough and she wasnt even prepared to try, She telephoned hysterical that she was losing sleep over it and that she wanted him to go.I advised her to discuss it with her family and call me back.(the puppy was actually the most docile of the lot and was very quiet whenit left my home,they had owned it for 2 weeks by this time)She rang back and told me she wanted me to take it back and that I should advertise it again.We of course said we would take him back ,but we could not guarantee that they would get all of their money back.We said we would find a home for him.She said money was not an issue and she just wanted rid of him.We asked if she was sure and she said definitely.My husband went to pick the boy up and she rang the next day to tell us  we must inform the new owner that the dog is ferrocious and bites.W e watched the pup (10 weeks) for a few days and he was an absolute softie,really lovely and quiet,and so found hima new home,we told the new owner(who will pick him up early next week) what had happened with him and that he could have him,he had owned Springers all his life and knew all about them.Then the husband  of the first family rings today(a week later) and tells us he wants his money back-all of it!!!!!!!!We have had to ring the new guy and ask him to pay someting towards it.He has agreed t o pay £150,of which we will keep £50 for wormers/feed ct(only because of the cheek of these people) and now he wants to take us to court.We  have told him we will give him the £100 when the new owner pays it.
Does anyone know what my legal obilgation is?Has this happened to anyone before?I think we have been very fair-but you may think differently.No probs with any of the others-all understand that puppies are playful and will play bite-please help-

That is such a nightmare - did you use a puppy contract?    I always do, and insist that we will always take back one of our puppies - no matter what age - BUT as we're not Marks & Spencer, cannot guarantee to refund the cost of the puppy.

Margot

My agreement says full refund if returned within 30 days for any reason. After that it says we will take the puppy back at any stage of its life on "mutually agreeable terms". I've only had two back, both adults, one because of the sudden death of the owner and one because the dog had got a (wrong) reputaion as a sheep chaser locally and was being threatened with being shot. Neither party wanted money back and I rehomed both free to the excellent new owners.

i am having a litter after 9 years please give me  some idea of what i need to put down in this contract so as to make the potential buyer think hard about what they are about to undertake and also make it clear on what the terms are if the puppy is returned

Hi Welshie, I've sent you a copy of my Puppy Sales Agreement by PM. There are some other examples here - http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?tid=23215

HTH

thanks for replying-no unfortunatley not,(I have never sold puppies before and wont again!).I have just spoken to trading standards,who were actually very helpful,and said that unless the puppy was ill/unfit then they could not expect their money back.(Obviously I would have given a full refund if the had been the case).They said chewing etc is normal puppy behavior and should be expected.The husband is now saying that his wife did not consult him as he was away on business and she was too distressed to think straight-sounds like a big row in that house ,but we did check with her and told her we probably wouldnt get her money back,but if we did it would be given back.She said three times the money did not matter.Any way I have been advised to put it in writing to them and keep a copy and send a cheque for the £100.Hope that sorts it.

regards Victoria

I know someone who only had theirs for 12 hours !!!!  They wren't novice dog owners either!

It just makes me so angry that  some people do not give puppies a chance -(they had him barely 2 weeks)-and expect them to be perfect immediately,I have told them they would be beter suited to a dog that they can take the batteries out of and put in a cupboard when it gets  a bit boisterous-that went down well!!!!!!!!!!!

my new Lab puppy was with his first owner for just over a week, before he was returned to the breeder as they couldn't cope.  At least they were brave enough to admit they had problems.  The breeder knew we were waiting on a black boy puppy and their loss is our gain.  He's turned out to be brilliant.