Hi, I know I seem to be harping on about the same subject, but I've still got BIG problems with my dog Toby and his SA.  To sum up he is messing in the kitchen when we leave him when we have to work.  The problem is getting worse now as he's simply not bothering to go to the toilet outside (no matter how long we walk him for), choosing instead to do it in the kitchen.  Obviously we don't tell him off for this as we believe it's due to his SA, which he definitely has as he follows us everywhere, including up to the bathroom - can't even have a wee in peace :rolleyes: :)   I'm worrying now that as he is basically 'allowed' to mess in the kitchen he's simply becoming un-house trained, but he's very good when we're with him and never does anything when we're at home.  HELP!!!  His poo's in the kitchen are getting bigger and bigger - he's saving it all up each time!

I've had advice as follows:

Feed him before you walk him - unfortunately made no difference
Train him to go to the toilet on command - good idea, but at the minute he pays no attention to us whatsoever when we speak to him out on walks. 
Go back to toilet training - I'm worried that by putting paper down I'm once again allowing him to think it's ok to mess in the kitchen.

I'm really stuck with this one, and I fear that I'm just letting him slip into bad habits.  It's inevitable that when we walk him, if he doesn't go to the toilet, he will definitely have messed in the house when we return.

Sorry for bleating on about the same old subject, but this is just getting worse intead of any better.  I know it takes time, and I wouldn't be worried if he was still going to the toilet on walks, but unfortunately that's not the case any more.

Any help/advice would be extremely gratefully accepted :D :D :D :D

I'm not an expert, and I haven't really been following your other posts but you're unsure about

Going back to toilet training - I'm worried that by putting paper down I'm once again allowing him to think it's ok to mess in the kitchen

but as he's already messing in the kitchen anyway wouldn't it be better just to start from scratch and make the paper smaller and smaller and closer to the door etc? I'm not entirely sure how the whole paper training malarky goes as my 2 never used paper, but I don't see that you've got anything to lose!!

:-)

I had a similar problem with my middle collie, except he only did it at night when left alone downstairs. It did indeed become a habit - it happened a few times when he was stressed and eventually he was doing it every night. Trouble is, if you don't catch 'em, you can't do anything as you have already found. I stopped this by confining him to the kitchen at nighttime, working on the theory that dogs don't like messing in their own sleeping space. (Our kitchen is tiny!) As your dog is already in the kitchen, I think I would start by shrinking his 'space'. A cage would be a good place to start. I know others have already suggested this but it really does help.

On a more positive note, I have had my latest collie for under 6 weeks. When we got him he would mess himself if a baby gate was shut on him. His sep. anx. was that bad! He now sleeps alone, and this week he has been left while I go out. We have had various sources listening in to him and the first two days he yapped for 30 seconds, this morning there wasn't a sound! Just to let you know there is hope and don't give up.

Best of luck, Claire

Hi Keeley,

Is it realistic to get up an hour earlier with him and give him a longer walk so more time to toilet and it would also tire him out more?  If it's at all feasible I'd give it a go.

Also, with SA which manifests itself as soiling, quite often they defecate immediately upon you leaving them - even if they have already gone :(   Some people of course think the dog does this out of spite when in fact it's an acute stress reaction.

Sorry I can't offer more suggestions,
Good luck, Teri :)  

i havent seen ur previous posts but i assume u have been given advice about the seperation anxiety in general and how to begin to tackle it by trying to leave ur dog along on his own more often, starting with a few seconds and gradually increasing it.

problem is, because it is a seperation anxiety problem rather than a toilet training problem it would be hard to say to go back to basics.  Altho u do say he wont go even on walks.  Is it a case of he doesnt know where is appropriate to go?  do u say anything to him when he goes indoors?
If its a case of toilet training, i would praise very enthusiastically and give him a treat when he goes outside and say nothing when he goes inside and just clean it up.  I would also try adding a cue word to him going to the toilet, it might not seem like hes paying attention, but he will pick it up if u use it everytime.

does he go out to the toilet when ur there? or does he only go in the house?

Hi keeley,

Have you though about getting advice from a behaviorist who will come to your home.
Have you considered a puppy creche or a dog sitter where you take the puppy to thier home for a couple of days a week so that he isnt spending so much time alone.

Correct me if i'm wrong but did you say in one of your posts that he doesnt like the garden because he associates it with being left there in his kennel ,have you thought about getting rid of the kennel.(one of my dogs hates my shed because its where the mower is kept and she hates the mower .There is no way she will venture out into the garden if I go into the shed and she doesnt appear again until the key goes back on the hook!)

I would also attend obedience and agility classes being a collie x she would love it collies need mental stimulation.They would also teach you how to play with your dog out on walks we never just go for a walk with our dogs we have treats and toys do some sits down  recalls play with a ball or frisbie get him to focus on you.
I would use training pads and go back to basics with toilet training.After a walk and he doesnt perform when you get home put him in the garden until you leave for work.

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Jenny - Hi, no Toby never messes inside the house when we're there, only when we're out of the house.  He definitely knows that 'walkies' is also for going to the toilet, as he often goes with my husband of a night time (perhaps because he knows at night that he will be sleeping in our room with us, and therefore won't go where he's sleeping?).  Maybe I do need to walk him longer as Teri suggested (thanks for that Teri ;) ), as in the morning he does only get a ten minute or so walk (I'm not a morning person :D )

Will give all your ideas some thought.  Thanks for your advice - again :D :D :D :D :D

I really feel for you, there is nothing worse than coming home to a big poo, luckily it's only happened to us twice since we got Tyler and the second time he had the runs so that couldn't be helped. I hope you manage to sort everything out.

Try crate training him, -it might   get you back on track, -it  should makke him try to keep his  bed/crate area clean then hopefully when you take him straight ouut from the crate hed be dying to go on his walk or wherever,

i completly feel for you, keisha was allowed the sitting room and kitchen until the chewed a tuperwere box of one my housemates and then she had to be crated since (this was begining of oct) and every single day i came home to find that she had messed, she was left for the same amount of time, but obviously didnt like her crate) i fed her in there and played in there and she was never bothered about going in, it was just beiong locked in, and now she has been clean for three months.  something just clicked in her mind that it wasnt a good idea for her to mess, i never told her off, but every day that she has been clean ive prasied her and put her out in the garden immediately.  just thought i would write this to give you hope etc, i really didnt know what to do with keisha and now she just sorted it out for herself.  she still whinges a bit but we can deal with that.  good luck