i would like to know what is the set up costs to get into dog breeding and how long does it take to see a return?
im going to be breeding weimeraners.

Proper breeders make little or no return. Can I suggest you do something else with your time. From what you say, I don't believe you have any real love for the Weimaraner breed or you wouldn't be phrasing your questions quite the way you have.

You're intentions sound very much like a puppy farm to me, and people here have no time for those.

Dawn R.

If you're going to be producing quality puppies, your set-up costs will be very many thousands of pounds, and you may never recover your costs.

My recommendation would be marry well, the sort of husband (or wife) who enjoys lavishing money on you and your hobbies and doesn't mind at all that there is no return - in monetory terms anyway :D

Set up costs are plenty, sleepless nights are many, returns are seeing your puppies happy, healthy and well adjusted and going to loving caring families.  If you want a business this is not the profit making thing you think.

PROPER breeders see a return quickly when they see their puppies go to loving homes and receive pictures of well bred healthy puppies living with families who adore them and are growing into well looked after, well adjusted young dogs. PROPER breeders dont make money because they feed their bitches well and spend sleepless nights looking after their mothers and babies and are forever paying vets bills for the necessary care for their bitches and puppies and only have a reasonable number of puppies from their bitches. PROPER breeders do not breed for money, do not even consider profits and would NEVER ask the question that you have asked.     

Hi Fillis,

Very well said - don't think it could be explained any more clearly!

Regards, Teri :)

I second what you have said.

The joy is from seeing the pups go to good homes the money dosen't enter into it.

Me & my hubby have had some wonderful moments with the pups and is very upsetting to see them go.

WISH I could keep them all.

The best bit is when a new owner sends pics and a note from the pup on how he or her is doing.

The good old days.

Forget the money only do it for the love of doing it and passing your joyful moments onto new owners who will also have joyful moments with their new pup.

In addition to every thing that has been said before here is a rough cost of what setting up as a reputable breeder would cost you :

Buying a house in the countryside with no neighbours, a few acres and accessible to the general public = £ 500,000

constructing breeding kennels which pass the local authorities strict planning and registration requirements = £ 50,000

paying for the staff  to care for the number of breeding bitches and puppies you will need to have to make the 'business' profitable = £ 12,000 per year per member of staff

providing said staff with on site accommodation ( puppies and whelping bitches need round the clock supervision) = £5,000

Feeding costs/vets bills/heating/lighting/equipment/disinfectant etc = £ 15,000 per year

new van fitted with crates to transport dogs = £ 20,000

entries/overnight stops and petrol costs to shows to 'advertise ' your stock ( or people won't buy them in the first place) = £ 10,000 per year

stud fees or importation costs to widen and improve your gene pool = £ 3,000

Total costs so far £615,000 and I'm sure other folk can add to that list.

Most folk on here breed only occasionally as a part of our hobby - and DO NOT expect to make a profit, the costs involved in breeding reputably as a business speak for them selves.The ONLY people that can make a profit out of breeding dogs are the puppy farmers who do not give a t*** about their dogs and commit them to a life of unbearable squalor and misery - I'm sure that you do not wish to join their ranks :(.

Yvonne

Hi Yvonne i know breeding costs money,but isnt your figure a touch over the top? :)

I have this argument with a few people regularly,they say that breeders have to make money by selling pups at such high prices etc. how do they not make money???? I always say that breeding is a labour of love and breeders breed for the betterment of their breed and not to make money.

But to tell you the truth i dont understand, either, how a breeder cant make a penny from a litter,say, you sell the pups for 500 quid each,you get 7 pups in a litter(sometimes alot more) thats 3,500 pounds.Factor in vaccinations,food(most breeders dont feed super quality commercial food) advertisment,surely this all doesnt come to the above figure?
I realise there are stud fee's,health checks etc. but eventually dont you get your money back on these things?

Please dont get me wrong,i have an immense respect and admiration for reputable breeders,i couldnt do it,i am well aware of the work,sweat and tears that goes into breeding a healthy litter.My mums little dog  had an accidental litter :rolleyes:,she stayed with me when the pups were 4 weeks till they left at 8 weeks,i was an absolute nervous wreck by the time the last one had gone,none of the potential owners were good enough,all the cleaning up etc. etc. It definately gave me a new level of respect for breeders. Now she had the pups vaccinated(there were 3) fed them and mum on raw food and she was well ahead after she sold them(350 each).

I would love to hear the costs and *profit* of raising a proper litter,just so i have some first hand information when i have these debates with these people who cant understand how breeders make no money :)
Aswell as for the benefit of the original poster,who obviously wants to breed for all the wrong reasons :(

Okay, you buy your bitch pup for £500 (for the sake of argument) having done a lot of research to find a successful breeder to start you off with a quality puppy with potential (to cut out the cul-de-sac stage with your first lovely pup who was purely pet quality). You have to raise her for a minimum of two years before you can breed from her, so cost that in (your guess is as good as mine, but about £10 per week? = £1040), as well as the costs of all the health tests she'll need (hip-scoring, eye-tests etc etc - £300?). Getting out and about to the shows/trials to both advertise her and see the available stud dogs (wear and tear on car, petrol, entry fees £40+ per champ show, £10 per open show = about £500 per year). That's over £2000 for one breeding bitch.

It costs well over £1000 to raise a litter, without costing in time off work (needs to be taken into account because you either do it yourself or would have to pay someone else to do it) so say 8 weeks at £120/week = £1060, and you can see it's easy enough for a single litter to have cost over £4000. And that's just for one litter from a single bitch living as a house pet, who of course will only have about 3 litters in her lifetime (and will keep on eating etc when she's not producing puppies). So your hypothetical litter of 7 pups selling at £500 each = £3500 means an immediate loss of £500.

If you're doing it on a larger scale you'd have the sort of costs Yvonne mentioned.
:)

I might have misit, but haven't seen anyone mention the getting up every two hours to feed the 9 puppies you got from your litter after the bitch passed away just after giving birth (and this does happen) now thats alot of time, effort and heartbreak.  If a breeder does happen to make a profit because it was an easy litter with no problems.  the profit is NEVER much and that goes towards the bedding that the puppies shedded, wee'd on, poo'd on etc and will soon go back into the health and care of the dogs left in your kennels/home, offcourse each dog possibly living 10-15 years, when their that age on medication for artheritus etc

I think what Yvonne is pointing out what it would cost to breed on a commercial scale and still do it properly. 

What she forgot to include was the cost and time needed to rehabilitate any pups that need rehoming.  Also the cost of keeping breeding stock past their breding life (at least half their life).

Most people wouldn't be against someone breeding and making a living as long as they did things properly and took responsibility for the pups they prodcue for life (after sale service).

She also forgot to mention Health screening initially some £300 per dog and then eye testing or any other tests that need repeated screening.

The only people that make money from breeding are those who cut corners relying on the ignorance of new owners as to what is really required of a decent breeder and the stock they are producing.  In fact these people are making money off the backs of the good breeders as they charge the same or even more but have little of the financial outlay.

Most breeders like myself and many others breed in a small way as part of our hobby so do not need liscensing or the kind of accomodation needed for large scale breeding.

Not to mention the cost of a night-time caesarian for maybe a couple of retained pups who turn out to be dead, a dose or two of mastitis with the bitch and you have a further bill of over £1000. 

Not to mention advertising puppies for several weeks or even longer, and still having maybe 6 unsold at 4 months of age.

After the bitch has had her 3 litters, you then have the costs of feeding, innoculating her etc for maybe another 8 years.

No, please don't think you can make money from breeding because in the long-term you don't even break even.

I might have missed it because I've only skimmed this, but has anyone considered how much per hour a breeder would "earn" while looking after a litter? Staying with the bitch before during & after she's whelped, cleaning the pups & their surroundings, socialising (OK, playing with!) the pups, feeding the pups, time on the phone/PC talking to prospective owners, filling in registration documents, writing out pedigrees, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention advice & support over, maybe, 16 years. Probably works out about 2p an hour! :D

I've had the odd litter and it no where near returns the costs involved if you look at the big picture, one of my bitches had her litter (of four) as planned with no 'extra costs', other than health checks, stud fees, feed, worming etc. My other bitch missed the first time (scan fee) so we had pre-mate tests the next time (3x£40), that time she missed again (another scan fee) so we 'lost' the stud fee, we then tried a different dog with more pre-mate tests (another £120) plus another stud fee, this time she caught but had a still born singleton, the vet said have one more go which we did and this time she developed infection which meant several vets visits and tons of antibiotics.......we have put this bitch through enough so will not attempt to breed her again, we will however keep her for life because she's our girl. I don't see how you can make a profit........we must have lost a fortune but we do it for love!

Rose - most of the hobby breeders DO feed top quality food throughout their dogs life, and believe me, with a heavily pregnant and lactating bitch, the food HAS to be the best quality, and plenty of it - my bitch would polish off a medium size roast chicken in a day, plus puppy kibble, plus eggs, milk, lactol, cheese and yoghurt when the puppies were at "full gulp".  That for a medium size breed. And dont forget all the wasted food when trying to ascertain what the little dear fancies on any particular day!!!

I can add to this so far in 15 days 4 visits from vet, 3 injections, food that the other two are enjoying because madam does not feel like it today, sleepless nights, plus all the food in trying to get her to eat before she had the puppies.  If anyone makes any money can they tell me how please?
Maya

It amazes me how people have the cheek to ask such questions on a forum of dog lovers!
The only ones who make money are dog dealers who buy pups from here there & everywhere & turn them over in less than a week to unsuspecting puppy buyers. 1 dealer near us has made 1/2 a million profits last year...............he got caught by the tax man though!!!!!!!!!!
Sick people who really need to get proper jobs like the rest of the human race.

Exactly ;) the OP stated that she wanted to start a business breeding Weimeraners now just think of the number of breeding bitches that would need to make it profitable enough ( I knew there were other things I had left out - also left out paying one third of your profits in tax etc )

The days of the big kennels are long gone simply because it costs too much to do it properly - particularly the cost of a suitable property.IMO the best place to get a puppy is from the small hobby breeders for whom their breed is their 'passion' and who are prepared to be out of pocket if need be.

Yvonne