Hi everyone i got my bullmastiff puppy on saturday, popped her to the vet on monday to make sure everythings okay. Now i'm all confused on what to feed her at the moment she's on handful of beta and some tuna this is what the breeder was feeding her so i was going to gradually change over  next week onto barf at the vets i asked her what she thought of the barf diet, she said she should'nt be on a handful as everyones hand size is different she also said the puppy sounds gasy and it's probably do to the tuna but in saying that her stoles are very good so she hasn't got an upset stomach.  She also said not to feed her on the barf diet as it gives them arthritis early and bad hips and give them all sorts of allergies to food which i thought it stopped.  She recommend eubacunba because these specialize in large breeds.  Now i'm concerned because i did start giving the pup four meals a day as she was only given three i also alternate with the tuna between mince, boiled egg, lamb dinner from pets world,tripe or white fish which are added with the handful of beta with a table spoon of cod liver oil in one feed.  The vet also said tripe has no nutritional value as it's only a cows stomach and you should'nt need to give cod liver oil if the diet is balanced anyway. 

Please help

It sounds like you have a very ignorant vet, I suggest that you find another before you need her skills in an emergency situation.

"it gives them arthritis early and bad hips and give them all sorts of allergies to food which i thought it stopped."

Ask her for referenced studies backing her theories, I think that she will struggle.

"She recommend eubacunba because these specialize in large breeds."

This confirms her ignorance of canine nutrition.

Join one of the internet discussion groups for raw-feeders, Brit-barf is a good one http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BritBarf/

Experienced members of the group will be able to help you devise a suitable diet for your Bullmastiff, you cannot afford to take a chance on feeding an unbalanced diet to a giant breed and need help from experienced people with practical knowledge.

Snomaes

Thanks snomaes i will do.

The trouble with BARF it will only be as good as the person putting it together so perhaps your vet has had experience of some dogs suffering from a poor operator :).  There certainly seems a great deal of unrest about complete puppy foods for large breeds, I would have thought your best source of advise would be the breeder.  Assuming you were pleased with the condition and general health of her stock I would think you could trust her to guide you on where to go from here in rearing your pup :)

Without wanting to appear too cynical, I might suggest that the vet recommends Eukanuba, because it is in his/her financial interest to do so.  Large breeds survived perfectly adequately before "complete" dog foods arrived on the scene and dogs are by nature omnivorous. Visit a large dog show with Bull Mastiff classes and chat to some of the very experienced owners you will meet there - their specific knowledge of the breed will usually be much greater than that of your vet.

Good advice MickB :)

Rose, where are you? :D

I'm sitting on my hands hairypooch :D
Golly there's so much i want to say to this post,but i dont have the time at the minute,and to be honest i just dont have the energy for another probable debate/argument :(

All i can say is please find another vet,judging by your post,this one doesnt sound like she knows anything about canine nutrition,lettalone large breed nutrition!

Your confusing me now Isabel, why should a breeder be a better expert on nutrition than a vet?. Breeders are normally hitched up to a manufactures who give them free food, free puppy packs and this is normally the big boys. My advice is find an independent vet with the appropriate qualifications in animal nutrition .

As I explained in my first post I think the breeder would be good for advise because Frank thought her stock in good enough condition to contemplate buying a puppy from them.  Breeders do not tie themselves in with food companies that I am aware of, you can get your puppies packs from several companies, I'm not sure that Beta do one at all I always just chose to buy 3kg bags myself to send away with mine.
I did not notice anything in Franks post that suggested the vet sold eukanuba it was only said she recommended it but I do agree that large breed puppies are very specialist which kind of takes you back to the breeder again :).
BTW I keep hearing about further qualifications in nutrition does anyone know if the RCVS offer a qualification?

<<why should a breeder be a better expert on nutrition than a vet?. Breeders are normally hitched up to a manufactures who give them free food, free puppy packs and this is normally the big boys>>

Possibly because breeders see their dogs from birth to death and everywhere in between = vets see poorly dogs.   I do not know of any breeders who are "hitched up" to manufacturs who give them "free food".

Sorry did not mean it tar all breeders with the same brush .Can only go on my own experience on this one from the breeder who we obtained our own dogs. We just asked why she recommended that type of food and her answer was that she was contacted
Several years ago when she first started her Kennels /breeding by that particular brand and they supplied her with free puppy packs and gave her substantial discounts on her bulk food plus free bags on bulk buying -this was probably a one off as you say  AS you have not come across it before.But I would be interested if any other poster particular breeders Who don't receive discount or some incentives to confirm this-Jo

When I was still breeding I certainly wasn't approached by any food manufacturers. I think all manufacturers will discount bulk orders (even raw food suppliers), but you have to ask them, not the other way around. So you generally go for what suits your own dogs - and is therefore what's likely to suit your pups.
:)

Presumably whatever food she chose to buy at discount was a good one for her dogs otherwise she would not have been able to breed a puppy you would have been happy with, Jo, more than one by the sound of it :) so no wonder she stuck with it.

hi frank i also have a bully pup who was on barf and have put her back on kibble.she was getting upset tummy vet said take her off barf so i did her tummy is now back to normal i do give her chicken wings now and again she seems to be ok with them i to am confused by the different methods of feeding as their are so many different opinion s out their .Im at the point now of ok my pups growing she is healthy happy and her poo is ok so why change her food when she hasnt got a problem with it (hope that made sense).

yeah it did make sense maysea it's all so confusing to me aswell i just want her to be the best she can be and do the right thing for her, i wiil join that sight though and see what the experts say.

yeah it did make sense maysea it's all so confusing to me aswell i just want her to be the best she can be and do the right thing for her, i wiil join that sight though and see what the experts say.

Thanks everyone Susan.

Under the cicumstances I think MickB gave you the best adivice, go to the next big show where there are a good number of breeders and owners gathered and pick their brains, the experienced ones will know their breed inside out, yes you will get a variety of opinions but you should come away with lots of answers from the people who know best!
I wonder how many practicing vets have never reared a puppy?

>I wonder how many practicing vets have never reared a puppy?

As I've never had a vet that didn't own a dog I'm guessing not many :) plus of course all the puppies they see in their surgeries on a daily basis in sickness and health.  Of course the percentage of large breed puppies will be a lot smaller although funnily enough my vet owns a Bullmastiff bred by her father.
The trouble with asking many breeders is that you will get many answers which may leave you none the wiser, that is why I think it is best to stick with your own breeder at least through the rearing stage.  If that is not going to happen due to some reason I would seek out just one breeder who was feeding in whatever manner you are desiring based on the condition of their dogs, as seen at shows perhaps, and seek advise from them, too many cooks could spoil the broth :)

Hiya ,
I'm just writing this to let you know that i have 2 bullmastiff puppies, one 4 months old and one at 7 weeks. I feed both of them on Beta and my eldest has tripe , tuna etc etc, just like yours. Both of my dogs are from an accredited breeder who feeds her dogs exactly the same . Get rid of the vet and carry on your good work ! i can let you have my brreders e-mail if you want just let me know...

havent had time to read all the posts but my dog trainer mentioned something about eukanuba containing something that can cause cancer?  or was it bakers?  eek, cant remember, but it was one of those.

Jenny i think your'e thinking about ethoxiquin,BHA and BHT,these are all known cancer causing preservatives,ethoxiquin is used to make tyres/rubber ,most of the lower scale foods and the ones that contain by-products and/or derivatives use these horrible chemicals. There are plenty of foods out there that use natural preservatives,i dont know why anyone would willingly feed a food that contain these chemicals

They might not be affecting the dog NOW,but who knows what affect long term feeding of these things has???

Unfortunately there are no completely natural preservatives used in dog food. They way food is produced means that the preservatives have to Added back in and it usually made in the lab, how they do that I don't know but its man made BHt is being trialled to help in the fight against Aids So its not all bad . Burns  as far as I aware also has no policy on the meat it uses I.e. human grade meat I have e-mailed them on this subject but no date no response if any one knows better could they let us know-jo    

Maybe i should have said "more" natural preservatives,i was thinking VitC-VitE-rosemary etc :)

Burns are usually very good in giving prompt responces to customer e-mails,i guess your question was not what they wanted to hear.Judging by the lack of responce from them i think it's safe to say you now know the answer to your question :(

Manufactures who use human grade ingredients in their products usually use this as one of their biggest selling points and are proud to tell their customers about it :)

Thanks Rose, i  have said before i trust the  manufactors that tell the truth even if its not what i want to hear but a least some are totaly upfront -not many mind you _jo

Hi Frank
I've got a 6 month old puppy and I know exactly how you feel, as I too went through the stage of researching foods, it worried me some what as I too really wanted to make sure that my little one was getting a quality food so he would grow up strong and healthy.  I ended up looking at the complete foods on the market, rang up the manufacturers, found out exactly what was put in them and then came to the conclusion that burns would be a good one.. so he is on that without any problems.  I've just looked on the burns site for you and pulled off the links below.. hope they help?  x :)

http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/BARF_Diet_JohnBurns03.pdf

http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/growth.htm

http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/store/index.html

Thanks chud i will go and have a look now.

warm regards frank