As the older of us can remember, years ago, what is now the various Retriever breeds were not, in the eyes of the Kennel club, breeds. Rather they were considered to be varieties. Does anyone know when all this changed? I can remember it and believe it must have been in the 1960/70 area but really can't be sure. (Must be senile decay setting in!) Any info tying the date in a bit closer would be appreciated.

Regards, John

http://www.labradorforums.co.uk/faq-2-Labrador+History.html

http://www.alllabs.com/labrador_retriever_history.htm

http://personal.pitnet.net/ldoll/labrador%20Retriever%20history.htm

quote - 1964 that Britain had its first chocolate bench champion, Cookridge Tango.

Did a quick google for you John, couldn't find anything specific but hopefully these links will be of use. :)

Thanks Spook. Unfortunately just about everything but!

<< quote - 1964 that Britain had its first chocolate bench champion, Cookridge Tango.>>

Interestingly, The Cookridge lines are back on the 10th line of my Beth. Cookridge Gay Princess was the great grand mother to Follytower Silsdale Old Chelsea so bringing the chocolate gene down the Follytower line. With the other big choc line, Morningtown on the other side of Beth's mother's line it was no surprise she was also a Choc. Beth's sire was Heatherborn Statesman and of course Statesman's sire was Follytower Merrybrook Black Stormer so it was easy to see exactly what was on the mind of Beth's breeder when she mated her mother. Choc mated to a black carrying choc. My idea of the way it should be done.

Best wishes, John

Would the chocolate bench not melt? :D

Sorry, couldn't resist ;)

It would not have melted in my Bethany's mouth. It would not have touched the sides on the way down! :d

John ;)

John a little off topic I know but thought you may be interested in this site http://www.labradornet.com/chochistory.html  the main site has loads of pedigrees and I find fascinating. But then Im only just starting out!

Very interesting Bluebell. I think the links back to Chocolate are the very back are a bit tenuous though. Dogs in the Munden, Malmesbure and Buccleuth line are at the back of every Labrador pedigree including just about every working line so I think it odd that there are almost no working chocolates. Chocolates have been around since the dawn of the breed but in those days were almost never seen. That could only be because their genes were NOT widely spread, something which, if these dogs carried the gene could not be.

Morningtown Tobla in Route 1 was the Grand mother of my Bethany. Incidentally, the talk about Flatcoats in the early days of the breed, My Anna has two in her pedigree. Stoneleigh Quality and Derby Boy. Others in my database are Esmonian, Filleigh Jet and Sweep.

Regards, John

Bluebell, thanks for posting that link. Very interesting, and I have also been able to find some missing links 10 gen. back.

I hear what youa re saying John and the explanation given to me is that people never wanted chocies as working dogs so they were never bred from. Hence only pet/show chickies bred and the lines gradually moved apart. If nothing else I love looking at old pictures of Labs as it reaffirms my belief in the way they should be built as opposed to they way some of them currently look.

I have to say that I was shocked to hear about dwarfism having appeared in Labs and the pup being placed at a show. 

http://golden-retrievers.boogolinks.nl/

  Well here's an international collection of links for you to browse through. You've got me reading the Japanese breed clubs site now and pondering about the popularity of certain breeds far off in exotic places. :)

Have you checked the history of retrievers book for clues?