If a a white bitch( whose dam is white and sire is withe/black pied) is bred to a blue male is there a possiblilty of producing blue puppies
Archer

Hi Archer

Only if the bitch also carries dilute (D locus dd = dilute).  It is possible to carry this recessive for many generations without showing.

If the male carries white, pied or white will also be possible and also all other Staffy colours as Black/blue pattern is dominant and can "hide" all other colours.  Black is the most likely colour in the puppies though.

Julie

I'd look further back into the bitches family. But somehow I doubt you will get blue pups more than likely pieds and or brindle and whites, with a pure white too possibly.

Thanks everyone...not me whos breeding BTW.Apart from not owning a staff anymore I have yet to see a blue staff that I consider a good breed example.Will pass on your thoughts
Archer

I'm going to call my new pup Archer, I hope you don't mind :D

I think thats wonderful!! Did you get it from my user name or somewhere else?What breed is your new baby?
Nikki

Hi Nikki
I got the name from that Small Soldiers film I watched with my 5 year old over crimbo.  Archer was that funny tiger looking chap with the big fangs :D . He's a gsd, long coated, blue sable, or I should say he will be when he's born, I can't wait.
Kim

Same place we got my Archers name from.He was born when the film was first released and looked just like the film character when he was a pup!!
Archer

hello everyone.. could anyone tell me the most likely outcome of a brindle sire ( mother red, father blue ) and a black bitch many thanks.. all this colour stuff is so confusing

you should get brindles yo may get 1 or 2 blacks but i would say manly brindles and you may also get a few whites or pieds as i did when both sire and dam where black with a little white

thanks for your help.. I am learning all I can about caring for my girl.. tho have to be patient till I know for sure  she is pregnant !!!..so all advice is gratefully recieved...I'm  a personal slave to my two pampered staffies...this morning I had just 2 inches of bed.. oh well.. I wouldn't have it any other way..

When at least one parent is black, any colour will be possible in the pups.  Black is dominant to all colours/patterns so can "hide" them all (exept merle which doesn't occur in Staffies).  So depending on what the black bitch carries, you could have any Staffy colour but again black is most likely.

Julie

A white bitch from the same litter as my dog - dam white & black pied sire white - produced a litter of 4 blue and 1 blue pied pups when mated to a blue dog.  The reason being is that further back on the bottom side after generation 3 there is a high % of blue dogs.  Incidentally the nicest blues I ever saw for colour & pigment were from this dam and a black dog who both carried the blue gene the pups were mostly black but the few blues were so stunning very deep with perfect pigment (nails eyes etc).  I think everything suffers when you start to breed for colour and this colour seems to be so popular right now leading to a decline in the actual dogs, hence the reason there are so many "rare" blues when infact I would call them wishy washy mushroom!

I have seen loads of poor blues :-( when I was looking for mine.

Luckily mine is a very good colour & has done well at shows but she is very dark - the others I have seen are silvery with amberish eyes & pale nails & they were for sale at £800.00!

Jo
xxxx

hi there could you please tell me what colour pups are you likely to get
from a blue brindle female both parents were blue & white and a red & white male both parents were red & white thanks

This is a really old thread you've replied to.

First and foremost, and though it should go without saying, (but being as it IS one of the most overbred breeds you're asking about) I can't go without saying it - health (& health testing) / conformation / exceptional example of the breed should be considered above anything else - i.e. if you're breeding for colour - you're breeding for the wrong reasons I'm afraid.

You also need to go farther back within the dogs parentage to get a clearer picture of what colours might be produced.  What colour were the red/white male grandparents, great grandparents?  Any brindle in there? 

Anyway, back to colour. 

Blue is a dilution of black/brindle.  The dilute gene is recessive so for a dog to be blue it has to inherit the gene from both parents to be that colour.  Which in this case is so, as the your female is blue.

Brindle is a dominant gene which causes coat pattern, you only need one copy of that pattern gene to be present for the progeny to be brindle themselves, and you certainly have that in the female you've mentioned.

The red/white male has red/white behind him, so you also have the possibility of pieds of those colours (i.e. red pieds, brindle pie, blue brindle pieds)
The blue/brindle female has blue/white behind her, so again, possibility of pieds (though this term is now no longer used by the UK KC when registering litters).

So essentially, in summary, you could end up with any of those colours mentioned, with or without the white overlay.

Consider this though, even in Australia, blues are not rare (though produced regularly even more than in the UK), decent ethical sensible and caring breeders are :)

hi there thank s for your reply i understand theres alot more that goes in to breeding rather than just puting 2 dogs together to try get a certian colour but im just trying to get a idea of what colours my dogs would posibly produce as far as i know most of my boys family parents,grand parents ect were red and white or fawn and white and all of his brothers and sisters were also red and white or fawn apart from 1 that was black with the tan points tri colour?

also a blue brindle female put over a buckskin rednose male produced 13 brindle pups all colours ranging from red brindle to black brindle and a light sort of tiger brindle is that normal to get all brindle pups from those parents?

> is that normal to get all brindle pups from those parents?>

Yes.  If there are two copies of the brindle gene within the parentage, then all progeny will be brindle, because one of the two copies of the brindle gene is passed down.

Why was a Stafford bred to a red nose male.... sigh.....I assume we're not talking registered/papered Staffords here then?

Black and tan is undesirable within the breed.

>but im just trying to get a idea of what colours my dogs would posibly produce>

Whilst it's nice to surmise, it's nicer to see healthy happy pups eh :)  I'd worry less about colour and more about health.
I've given you an idea above as to what colour any resulting progeny could be.  i.e. Brindle, brindle/white, blue brindle/ white, red/white

thanks my 2 dogs are american staffys my male is papered femaled isnt
the blue girl that was breed to the pitbull is also pitbull there both ment to be pure but wouldnt have a clue as neither of them have papers or anything there not my dogs was just trying to compeare colour wise there 13 brindle pups from a blue mum buck skin dad to my blue brindle girl and red & white dad and yes at the end of the dad happy healthy pups is more important than colour and thats the main priority. i was only trying to work out if there are any other 2 colours put together that make blue pups apart from both parents been blue.
the black and tan pup i was talking about that come from the same litter as my boy is fully black apart from tan dots by eyes around around mouth if i remember right and he was sold as a papered american staffy on full register no contracts and endorsments witch im guessing the breeder should have done since hes not good guality

I see you're in New Zealand, staffylover. What's the law regarding pitbulls/American staffys there? In the UK (and this is a UK-based forum) it's illegal to breed them.

Pitbulls are perfectly legal in NZ and are to NZ what Staffies are to the UK.  A small proportion of really nice dogs and owners and the rest a menace to the general public.

Pretty sure it's a similar scenario in NZ as it is in Australia (in some states) as well as the UK, Jean.
Certainly American Pitbull types are prohibited from importation into NZ at the very least.
Not sure what the rules are re:breeding.  Also as NZ has a federal government, each state/province & even council, may have differing laws too.
AND I think it (the breeding of) depends on whether a certain section of the Dog Control Act 1996 has been enacted by that particular council
However, American Staffordshire Terriers are a recognised breed in Australia & New Zealand.  However with the law being the way it is, microchipping, proper registration papers and so on are an ABSOLUTE MUST, being as so many Am. Staffords have been seized and destroyed unnecessarily after being incorrectly labelled as p*tbulls.

You may or may not have seen the bad press recently surrounding the American Staffordshire terrier breed in Australia, Queensland in particular.

>there 13 brindle pups from a blue mum buck skin dad to my blue brindle girl and red & white dad >

So you have bred your girl already?  I'm a little confused due to the lack of punctuation in your post I'm afraid.

>i was only trying to work out if there are any other 2 colours put together that make blue pups apart from both parents been blue.>

Please give me the roll eyes icon someone!

And as I said before. 
Blue is dilute. 
Blue is not rare.
Why does it matter what colour the pups turn out to be?
If you're dogs or the 'other' dogs that have been bred (still not sure tbh) haven't got papers, then how do you even know that their health is of paramount importance?

I'm sorry but to me this now just sounds like someone wanting to make a quick buck from trying to guarantee blue p*tbull pups.  There are NO guarantees. 

I think, as you've intimated it would be wise to return to your breeder to discuss all this. 
Regarding papers, etc.  Black and tan point is NOT a colour recommended within the American Staffordshire Terrier breed.  However if a dog was sold to you on the Main Register, then it does mean the dog can be shown or bred from.  Doesn't mean it HAS to be, and certainly doesn't guarantee show quality.

I think this is going to be my last post on this thread.  *shakes head*

yip pitbulls are banned from been imported to nz but apart from that theres diferent laws for diferent councils some they have to be desexed clased as menicing and muzzled ect some there are no rules depends were you live.
no i have not breed her yet i have been trying to work out what male i would prefer to put over her and yes colour does matter as does temprement,quatlity,personelity,health everything.
i own to american staffys
a mate of mine owns a pitbull and american staffy thats mainly why i was asking about the colour after seen they had all brindle pups when parents were blue and buckskin i was suprized so got me woundering what colour pups i would get if and when i breed.
as for the black and tan pup from my boys litter im not sure who ened up geting him or if her was sold on full register or not i only seen him when i picked my boy up and was told all pups were been sold as show quality on main register.
as for you saying(if they havnt got papers then how do you even know that their health is of paramount importance?)
i dont know how your papers work were you live but over here papers have nothing to do with a dogs health theres nothing written on the papers to say there in good health all the papers show is who the parents,grandparents ect are and that there purebreed
there plenty of ways to check a dog is healthy without having papers theres all sorts or test the vet can do along with other more specific test to the breed like ataxia witch i might add i am geting my girl tested for that and also dna test to check she is pure since she dosnt have papers
so to your comment that im just out to make a quick buck of pitbull pups your compleatly wrong you need to get of your high horse
im not doing anything wrong my dogs are very well cared for and very loved family pets if i want to breed for them i will but i will make sure there in top condition first geting all the test i need done the pups will be well taken care of and only placed in loving homes and i can honestly say thats alot more than some dodgy breeders of papered dogs do and alot of them are in it just for the money so who are you to judge me ive done nothing wrong

haha no jeangenie its NOT illegal to breed them not that it matters to me anyway i dont breed pitbulls

Ahhh... man.. I was hoping not to have to reply... but there you go - sucked in.

>as for you saying(if they havnt got papers then how do you even know that their health is of paramount importance?)>

Because... 9 times out of 10, a reputable (a really, really reputable) breeder will, not only give you the registration papers, but they will also include with those papers any relevant documentation that relates to health. 
For example, many American Staffords suffer from hip displasia.

Nope I said it sounds like 'someone' trying to make a quick buck, not YOU in particular.

High horse?  You bet I am.  If people like me aren't on our 'high horses' then a heck of a lot of the bullbreeds are on their way to hell on a handcart.  So I shall remain there, thanks.

As for where I live.  Have a look at the little flag next to my name.  Then try and understand the situation with breeders good and bad here... surely even you must see how that's going? 

>i can honestly say thats alot more than some dodgy breeders of papered dogs do >

Yep, it may well be, and that kind of finishes for me in a nutshell.
Fed up to the back teeth of seeing supposedly good AND definitely bad breeders pumping litters out of their b*tches, claiming this, claiming that, rare colour this, rare colour that...