Just had a phone call from one of my owners.

They have an 18 month old bitch that I bred.  I had a couple of e-mails from them over the last couple of weeks, to say that she had suddenly started occasionally collapsing, without any other obvious symptoms.  My advice was to get her fully checked out at their vet with Blood Tests etc.

This they did, including an ECG, which revealed a slightly englarged heart with some fluid. But the vets haven't a clue as to what the problem is.  This bitch has now stopped eating and drinking and is wobbly on her feet, all the vets could suggest on Friday was to offer her chicken and rice!!!.  I have told them to get as much fluids in as they possibly can and phone the emergency vet, to get her put on a drip, as from what they describe this baby is dehydrating badly, gums pale and dry, very lethargic and depressed.

They live in an area where they excercise the dogs in a large private parkland with deer etc. My feelings are that this is some sort of poisoning but haven't a clue as to what.

Any ideas anyone, as this bitch needs help now.

Thanks

Sorry have no suggestions, but I do have everything crossed for the young girl, I hope you find the causes behind her illness

Best wishes

liberty

Is lyme disease in this country - it was the deer comment that makes me ask ?

The early signs of Lyme disease in dogs are supposed to be loss of
appetite, fever and lethargy. Lameness may occur at the same time or may
occur later. In some dogs, enlargement of the lymph nodes (usually
generalized enlargement) occurs. In dogs, skin signs, heart disease, kidney
problems and neurologic signs are reported to be rare. Symptoms of Lyme
disease are usually delayed for several months but start to occur about 2
months after exposure and should show up by 5 to 6 months after a dog or
cat is bitten by a tick carrying the bacteria (Borrelia burgdorferi).

Hope you get to the bottom of it Jayne

xxxx

http://www.provet.co.uk/health/diseases/lyme.htm

It is UK Jayne and Deer are a recognised host

may be worth looking at ?

The link aboove says :

In Europe dogs present with the following signs :

Anorexia
Fatigue and weakness
Fever
Paralysis of facial muscles - leading to dysphagia

The fatigue and weakness fit ..........

Can be treated with antibiotics

Not sure if poison would cause an enlarged heart, thats usually due to heart disease, the pale gums and collapsing sounds like the advanced stages of heart failure.  Saying that poisoning does affect the heart and it does produce ataxia and a wobbly gait.  Does she cough?  I feel like I'm grasping at straws for you, but in such a young dog I would favour a poisoning rather than an "old" dog problem like heart failure.
Dawn.

Yes Sara, Lyme disease IS in this country although it's not common. Again, as Dawn and others have said, pale gums could be heart problems, it could also be a sign of internal bleeding but I would have thought there would be other signs.

Thinking of you Jayne.

Regards, John

Any news Jayne?

Not good at the moment Sara. Apparently she has cracked a molar completely in half exposing the root, hence the not eating and drinking, but the ECG report is saying that she has an enlarged right ventricle.

She was due to see a cardiologist this morning and I haven't heard from them yet.

Having read a lot about Lymes, my feelings are that it could be a possibility, as that can affect the heart.

Will update as soon as I hear anything.

I do hope you find some good news shortly. I am thinking of you.

Karen

Please do Jayne - worried about the baby

poor little thing with her tooth - at least it explains part of the problem though I guess.

I saw some write ups on Lymes mentioning heart and that coupled with the deer comment made me wonder. It's not something I know much about but must have seen mention on here at some stage and it lodged in my brain. Of course it may not be that but you never know.

everything crossed for her here

http://www.upei.ca/%7Ecidd/intro.htm

http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/deindex.html

http://vetgate.ac.uk/browse/cabi/8e0e093fbb2ba4e67ee4509d0c6dd739.html

I hope she's okay (everything crossed).

Jayne

I know someone who has suspected lyme disease just now.  Symptoms are very similar to flu which is why it is very difficult to confirm what it is but they are being treated for lymes.  They are undergoing a serious course of IV antbiotics.  Apparently because we haven't had the usual freezing cold weather, ticks are lasting longer and therefore increasing the risk of lyme disease, so I guess this applies to both animals and humans ! 

Hope the wee one improves very soon.  Bless.

Well have an update on the little girl.

She apparently has a heart murmur Grade 2, they are very unsure as to the cause, as no murmur has ever been detected previously, and are of the possible opinion that it has been caused by some sort of infection. But the bitch has no sign of infection now, so they are unable to give an exact diagnosis as to what infection. 

Having spoken to her owner tonight they too are thinking of the possibility of Lymes!!!

They do not think there is any inherited cause.

Luckily they do not think it is very serious and may well settle with time, although she will never be completely clear of it. :-(

Virus are very strange how they affect organs.  I can well remember losing a friend years ago, he was only 25 and had a dose of flu, a week later he died of a heart attack, the flu virus had affected his heart.

Thats quite good news Jayne.  Grade 2 is pretty low and 9 out of 10 dogs will never have a problem with it.  My Jack Russell had a grade 4 murmur and lived to 15 yrs, she died of kidney failure, takes a lot to stop a Terrier!
Dawn.

If it does turn out to be Lymes disease I don`t know if this will help but I have been reading recently about Lymes Disease in humans and on a couple of the forums people who had under gone long term antibiotic treatment without much success have seen a marked improvement in symptoms after using Colloidal Silver.

Make sure they do a full Thyroid blood panel test as thyroid trouble can affect the heart.

Grade 2 heart murmurs should not cause the dog any problems.

Hope the little girl soon improves.