Wasn't going to get Callia vaccinated because of previous problems with vacs but I spoke to the farmer who owns the farm that I live on and he was telling me that we have a terrible rat problem at the moment and to be on the lookout for the countless deseases that they carry, including Distemper.

I took her along yesterday to the vet for jabs as I weighed up the pro's and con's and decided that it just isn't worth it. So far, apart from loose bowls, she seems her normal self.

It wasn't an easy decision, she had her Nosodes before this consideration, but I feel a little bit more comfortable now, albeit I know she's not fully covered for another 3 weeks. I was very shaky after the vet and was more than a little paranoid during last night and up to this afternoon.

I must admit, I didn't fully understand or realise the seriousness of Distemper from rats and living in a rural area, how much more the dogs were at risk. I still won't be boosting Murf though.

I feel better for posting this, it puts it more into perspective for me :)

The problem from rats is not Distemper, rather Leptospirosis. Leptospirosis is spread from the urine of rats to a number of other animals, including humans. If your dog contracts Lepto it is possible for it not to show any effects for quite some time after, but it is still possible for your dog to infect you!

It is a very serious problem which can affect any one. The most at risk people are farmers, gamekeepers and particularly, canoeists! At this time of year when I go into our rearing pens there are rat workings all over the place. Their tracks are there for all to see. They get into the feeders and corn storage containers and drown themselves in the water containers! Believe me, the risks are very real!

Regards, John

Thanks John, :)

Isn't it true that there is more than one strain of leptospirosis? And just because your dog may have been in contact with one strain of it and survived, there are several more that can infect. What is the Distemper relationship with rats then? I only ask I am seeing him tomorrow and want to make sure that he is aware of leptospirosis as well. We have recently lost 4 farm cats up here so the rats are more prevalent than usual and he says that he is fighting a loosing battle with the buggers (his words) as they are in the grain store (whats left of it)

It really is worrying as my dogs, except the pup, run around the farm frequently :(

Distemper is actually a member of the Measles family of viruses and apart from dogs it also affects ferrets, mink, weasels, stoats but as far as I know, not rats! I can't help thinking your friend has got a little confused about that and is actually thinking of Lepto. Of course, I'm not a vet and it could be me who is wrong ;)

Yes, there are a number of different strains, some are covered, some partially covered. The drug houses tell us that we should be ok with the most common kinds, which I suppose is the best we can hope for. Most working people I know keep the Lepto part of the inoculation up to date even if not the rest. (It is possible to get the Lepto done without having the rest.)

Being of advancing years :( I date back to the days before inoculations. It's amazing how few cases we saw. I suppose because dogs of those days were subjected to the virus right from the day they were born, that they built up a certain amount of immunity to it which in this more sterile world of today, is missing. Vaccines have cut the incident to almost nothing so dogs never have the chance to build a natural immunity. This is where the risks of from not vaccinating lays.  The natural immunity is no longer there.    

Regards, John

Yes, agree with J, can`t find anything linking rats with distemper, but lepto is. I believe there are more than 200 strains of lepto & the vaccines cover a few.

*I date back to the days before inoculations. It's amazing how few cases we saw.*
Now that could open up a whole new debate ;) :D
Do you mean lepto or distemper or both?

Christine, Spain.

Distemper, C. I think it was a bit like Mixematosis in rabbits in that you would have an outbreak in an area and a number of dogs would surcome. The natural immunity of the survivors would be boosted and for some time only the odd case would crop up. But gradually the immunity would wane and a further outbreak would occur. A dog just along the road from where I lived died whilst I was at school and it was something I never want to see again!

Incidentally, at an outbreak of measles any dog in the family was more often than not destroyed because of the link with distemper and the risks of it spreading it! (I'm not sure if the risk was real or just perceived!) Another ailment which spelt the end of the poor dog was Scarlet Fever. My mother contracted this whilst at school and her dog was taken and destroyed to prevent spreading the disease. (Remember, this was nearly 90 years ago and isolation hospitals were not common in those days)

I well know and respect your views C but I also know my own experiences and I inoculate and have never lost a dog from any of those ailments which we inoculate against. (Of course, if I had not inoculated there is no proof that I would have had problems but that is an argument which settles nothing either way!)

Best wishes, J

*Incidentally, at an outbreak of measles any dog in the family was more often than not destroyed because of the link with distemper and the risks of it spreading it!*  No I didn`t know that & I never heard of scarlet fever having anything to do with dogs????
Know of 3 people round here with/who`ve had rheumatic fever recently, one my g/daughter, but glad to say she got the all clear in the new year :)
I know of the measles/persussis closely related to distemper & have read one report that recently vaccinated dogs could provide immunity to kids in the household for measles!!!!!?????

Christine, Spain

I dont think dogs could contract Scarlet Fever but the thought at the time was that they would carry the virus, whether in the coat or what I don't know. In the case of my mother, she tells me even the curtains were burnt!

Best wishes, J

Very interesting, Christine, re rheumatic fever - when I started as a cadet nurse in 1960 (!) it was at the Canadian Red Cross Memorial Hospital in the grounds of the Cliveden estate at Taplow. We had a special unit for juvenile rheumatism, where we as cadets were allowed to work. There was a children's ward, a teenage boys' and a teenage girls' ward, although there were a few adults there as well. Generally speaking, the children either had rheumatic fever or Still's disease - juvenile rheumatiod arthritis. I discussed with a GP about a year ago the fact that we hardly ever hear of rheumatic fever in England these days. It could be because of effective antibiotic treatment for streptococcal throat infections, or just a change in the natural pattern of disease. Is your grand-daughter in England or Spain?

I was always at Cliveden House in those days, the days of the Christine Keeler, Mandy Rice-Davis affair! We had the fishing rights for the Thames where it ran through the bottom of the estate and my friend (Sadly no longer around) and I used to ride our motorcycles beside the house down through the grounds. (Never saw a think! :( )

Regards, John

Come to think of it, when I graduated from cadet nurse to student nurse, I had a Vespa scooter - not to ride around the grounds of Cliveden, though. We lived out at Hitcham House in Burnham, it was unlighted and very scary when one returned home on one's push-bike....at least the Vespa went faster through the scary bits! :D :D :D

Hi Carene, no my g/daughter, 6 next month, is in Gibraltar but my friend is in Spain & aslo her friend who had it is in Spain, they are both in their early 30`s. There was also a little boy in Gibraltar who had it before my g/daughter. The doctor who treated my g/daughter didn`t/wouldn`t confirm it on her records but treated her for it all the same.
You can imagine how shocked we were, when we looked it up everywhere said how rare it is nowdays & then we go on to hear of 3 more cases!!!
My dad had it as a child & it left him with a damaged heart which he died young from :(

Christine, Spain.

Very interesting John :)

Seeing as we also have weasles and stoats that run riot around here, I am now happy that I took the decision. I doubt you are wrong on the leto link with rats ;) it's probably my landlord (farmer) who is a little confused, but then, quite rightly so, he hates wild rats with a vengence and views them as the nucleus of all evil, You can never be too careful.

This is an interesting subject, in days gone by, I don't remember my grandmother, who was an avid dog owner/lover ever boosting yearly, they probably didn't in those days and worming every 3 months. The dogs had good excercise, a tin of food put in them every day and they all lived to a ripe, healthy old age.

If she was around today, it would be a total enigma to her, to see all of the advancement in dog medicine and the precautions that we now take to have "healthier dogs" :)

<<he hates wild rats with a vengence and views them as the nucleus of all evil>>

When you think, since July we have brought 10 ton of pelleted feed and 9 ton of corn and are just about to buy another 5 ton to feed just 1500 Pheasants, you can imagine how much the rats and squirrels are eating! I was standing quietly on the middle ride of our big wood this morning and watched 2 Foxes, 2 Munjac and halfa dozen rabbits stroll past. The whole food chain starts with our corn! Although I don't begrudge them their feed. (The rats I could live without! ;) ) I must admit I do love to just stand and watch.

Regards, John

Early morning John, in my opinion, is the best time to stand and reflect on life and all that it has to offer ;)

I sometimes can't sleep and get up at 4.30am and take my boy out into the field, I see the deer, rabbits, swans, geese, ducks and even the odd stoat mooching around, especially when the sun is rising at different times of the year :) Even my boy isn't as agitated as he normally is and sits and enjoys the serenity with me :)

Slightly off subject I know, but sometimes life moves at such a hectic pace, I think it does you good once in a while to just appreciate the simple, natural things in life, instead of being preoccupied with petty things that have no real bearing on the way we live :)

It does rather put other things into perspective. To miss out on what the countryside has to offer is to miss out on life!

Regards, John

Oh yes early morings just listening to the peace & quiet & then sunset as well :)

Talking of stoats, my Sweepy brought one back to me a couple of years ago, they are lovely but pretty nasty I believe. First time I`d seen one in real life & it had a gorgeous coloured coat :)

Christine, Spain.

How lucky you all are to live in the countryside. We have to have a caravan to enjoy the things you can see every day. Gabi gets very excited when she sees the camping gear coming out. She just loves the long walks and it keeps her amused for hours watching the rabbits. Never realise that there is a down side to some of the wild life.

I used to live in the country Gaby. I never moved but the town did! At least I'm not too far away but the wonderful fields where I used to walk my dogs and play as a child is now ASDA car park! It is through my involvment with working gundogs that I get invited into some of the most beautiful places. I'd hate to not be able to get into town but I want the town on my terms, once or twice a week! The rest of the time It's the countryside I love.

Regards, John