Recently posted about a possessive retrieving problem I had, glad to say that this is a lot better - still working on it, but I seem to have made another problem now - he's dropping the ball about 6ft away, sitting down and won't move - what do you suggest as a cure??

Thanks in advance.

I don't know what method you've been using to acheive the retreive so far, but I've always found 'back chaining' where the dog is rewarded for taking the object from you hands first, to be very useful. Try this link: http://www.dogscouts.com/retrieve.shtml

I went back to read your last thread over again to refresh my memory.

Lets go back to that point. He was running off with the dummy and not returning. How have things changed? what are you doing differently? how are you working now? And in what kind of terrain are you working? Did you manage to find a "Corridor" to work in? How do you behave as your dog comes in?

Sorry for the questions but they are important to spot what you are doing. Were you in my class I could stand and see for myself but without that I only have words to go on and the better picture you can paint the more chance I have of spotting something.

Regards, John

In the first instance, thanks Digger for the link will take a look later.

Hello John - yeah he was running off sticking two fingers up and not returning.  This is what is happening now - whilst out walking he starts walking right beside at heel and then he just sits down (I don't give any command) I just carryon walking as I feel if I were to stop and do as he's wanting i.e throw dummy/ball he will have got want he wanted. So then when I chose I'll stop and he'll sit and I give a stay command and throw the item/s then send him for same, he'll now bring it back towards me and sit and drop but 6ft to 10 ft away.  He'll sit there for hours if I didn't do something, so a call him on but he'll hang behind me, if I knee down, with my back to him and pretend to be looking at the floor at something he'll just sit there, if I move on he'll pick up the item and move closer, if sometimes I ignore him and just carryon walking he'll then pass me and go about 6ft in front, sit and wait for me to go to him.  As mad as it seems I've had difficulty finding a corridor, so lucky to have so much open land everywhere around me and everywhere I seem to go.  Although I found a footpath to do a detour on my morning walk although it could do with being a bit narrower.  So I put in to action what you said - and guess what he just sits and drops some distance from me - could I try going to get him and bringing him to the spot where I was when I kneed down to take the retrieve??.  I know I've obviously brought this problem about but hope you can help.  As he comes towards me I've tried many things not looking at him, calling him in happily and did think about trying with his recall (afraid to do this as I don't want to cause further problems by training him to ignore recall!!!!)

Looking forward to your observations - wish you weren't so far away - fancy a holiday in Sunny Cornwall with me and Oskee!!

Just going out Mel but I'll be back later.

Best wishes, John

PS. Looking out at the nasty wet weather here, a holiday in sunny Cornwall sounds great! ;)

Looking forward to your post later.  We love the snow and never hardly ever get any, so we'll do a swap!!

Have you tried turning and running away from him when he is about to stop short?  This is what seems to work with some dogs who are slow to return or stip short at Obedience class.  don't know if it is appopriate for gundog work.

Very appropriate Brainless, although with old men like me it is usually a "Walk away" rather than run! ;)

From what you are saying Mel I would hazard a guess that everything's coming along fine!!!

My reason for saying this is that it would appear that he now has the idea that what he Was doing was not the right thing and has not yet worked out what the correct action is. Your job now is to show him the way. What I usually do is a form of what Brainless is advocating. As the dog is returning with the dummy, just before he gets to the distance where he stops, I turn my back on him and call him up to heel. Use a happy tone of voice but only just enough verbals to start him heading your way. When he gets in to heel, without stopping, bend down and take the dummy then immediately praise him. Don't even think of doing a retrieve in the old manner. Breaking the pattern means you have a chance to train success. When this has been well learned start only walking a few paces (BUT DON'T LOOK ROUND!) Again, allow plenty of time for the lesson to be learned then gradually cut the paces down till you are just turning your back. (You know where we are going now!) Finally start to cut the amount you are turning away until in time you are not turning away at all.

With young dogs I often do a little heelwork with them holding the dummy. About turns, sits included. Try it with a toy at first then you will not interfere with the retrieve, but once learned it's a great way of getting a nice hold. Although in gundog work we are not concerned about dogs sitting in the present, I often find that young dogs are less likely to drop when sitting. Again, start with a toy whilst doing heelwork and progress from there. 

Regards, John

Cheers for the replies -

"he now has the idea that what he Was doing was not the right thing and has not yet worked out what the correct action is"  He probably thinks I wish my owner knew waht she was doing!!!

Ok my/his heel isn't great but we'll be trying it either later or tomorrow morning.  Oh I know what you mean about looking at him, I've noticed that as soon as I look at him he's been spitting it out.  Also when I turn away and look at the ground - he's not really that bothered and just goes off for a sniff, although I know he's still got one eye on me - so patience I think is what I have to work on!!

I've read and re-read what you've said and will put it into action and hope like the running off we can crack it (be positive we will crack it;) ).  Sometime I feel like I let him down so, as he's so keen and clever and I just don't have enough experience training the right way!!  In other words I seem to get there in most training (with the help of CDer's) but seem to take the long road!!!

Will take a toy and do the heel work holding exercise!!!

Thank you so much  x

Don't feel you've let him down, we all get some part of our training wrong however long we've been training. The thing is, we are dealing with living thinking creatures and they all need their own way of handling. Wait until you see what he's doing by the end of the summer! It sounds to me as if it is all starting to come together. He's beginning to understand that it is not a case of doing as he pleases, more a matter of what pleases you! A very important lesson to learn.

Regards, John

Thank you for your words of wisdom and kindness.

Yeah I suppose it is starting to come together and I forget sometimes he's still such a young lad. (he reminds me of a little old man!! well apart from the huge amount of energy he has) 

I just hope you're right and he is understanding and learning that all important lesson ;)

Thanks again John and I'll let you know how we're getting on and of course no doubt I'll be back for some more of that wisdom of yours :)

Best wishes, Mel

Oh and we've just had a little snow - although I won't blink as it will be gone again. 

Thanks for your reply Brainless point taken.  Thanks again :)