Last week, on the school run. I got talking to one of the mums. Who because shes seen me with woody. And we are also very chatty. Thought I would be interested to know. Shes having some kennels, built in her gardern, and is going to breed huskys / malamutes. Cause her mates boyfriend breeds about 6 different breeds. And has obviously given her the idea. Her 4 year old daughter is getting very excited, about the arrival, of these dogs. I really didnt know what to say. "Apart from you must be mad". I am seriously hoping that its a pie in the sky thought. Cause shes only got as far the kennel idea, and type of breed.

Today a new girl started in our office, and has a 2 year old rotty. And has just told, me and my colleague, that she is breeding from her. Weve both raised our eyebrows at each other. type thing. I asked about health tests. Shes had the bitch since it was a pup. And has told me she thinks she's had them done. I dont think she knows what im on about. All shes interested in is the thought of very cute puppys running around

I am by my nature a very scarcastic person. Ive bit my tongue. How can I dissuede, them without appearing to be an absolute b*****, or nosy interfering busybody

Alix

Hi Alix,

Doing good biting your tonue :D  I know the feeling...   You could always advise them in an upbeat and friendly manner to try running with their ideas on CD

Not so much tongue biting required on here :P

Teri

yes indeed cause if she is going to do it anyway best she gets some good advice first.might make her realise there is more to it than cute puppys.

Well i have put people off by describing the game of "catch the placenta before mum has too many" and the game of "hop over the poo every morning from 4 weeks to 8 to get the back door open before you can get cleaned up for breakfast time" works a treat. Cute puppies are one thing, bodily fluids, excretions and all the other nasty bits are a different kettle of fish entirely.

Of course i could always print off my breeding expenses table, see how they like the idea of the visa being maxed out and left to pay it off for 5 months.

And then of course theres the "oh we didnt manage to sell 3 of them before they were 15 weeks" scenario suits them. Baring in mind the remaining pups have to be vaccinated at £50 each, wormed at £3 each 2 weeks till 16 weeks, fed at a cost of £90 per month (ish) and continue putting word around. Then theres training these remaining pups (not an easy task with play top of the menu) and the added expense of resorting to selling them in a local rag or on a classifieds website before you go bankrupt.

You forgot the pooey feet in your face as they mob you wehen trying to clean the puppy pen,a dn the sh*t up your trousrs when navigating the kitchen as desribed. :D

A;lsop the waking as soon as th first bird peeps, sitting on a knife edge when they are playing noisily or screaming for their Mum that no longer wishes to feed them, buty just has to check they nare OK at 3am!!!

I only wish the phrase "theres money in Sh*t" were true. Still, if it puts the bad ones off......

At christmas we had two litters, total of 11 pups.........after all the expense of everything that could go wrong DID go wrong, a c-section, hand rearing 5 pups when mum didn't get any milk after the section,  welpi for 4 weeks, feeding 11 pups for 8 weeks, stud fees, travelling expenses, KC registration, worming, dew claws, vets fees which always seem to happen on Sundays..........total outgoings £4580!

Now I'm a multi-millionairess according to friends and family!!!!     NOT!

Thank the lord for the Visa, i do!
If only people knew the very very bad side of breeding. We all see it, some of us have tradgic losses due to it. But, some people simply will not listen to those who have been there.

I hope your over draft is paid soon Sharon!

Oh no not another malamute farmer :(

I dont mean to be rude or anything and i'm not condoning uneducated people who start breeding for money but if breeding was that bad uses wouldn't do it either. i know there can be big losses in breeding but some people might just be starting out and need a helping hand by telling them whats involved that alone might put them or some people dont listen and then learn by their mistakes and never look at another dog again.  It just seems that on this board some people are very critical of others and always showing the negative side but surely to god there is some your use wouldn't be doing it would you.

What about introducing them to some established breeders/breed clubs for positive help as well as the cautionary tales? True they may not listen or tell you they have a pal who knows it all, but it may be more positive than biting your tongue off!

Actually lorelei, Yes I like that idea. It comes across as trying to help them, without actually interfering. The last thing I want to do is actually direct them here, and find ive been involved a debate about them.

Frank Im not trying to persecute anyone. My sons friend mum, I like and get on with and the last thing i want to do is offend. But she doesnt even have a dog, she has a cat thats it

Alix

But thats the point - many of these people only think about lovely cute furry puppies running around. :D They do not consider the actual mating process, the mountains of smelly poo they produce, the sleepless nights the (responsible) breeder has, the bitches welfare, the bitch eating you out of house and home for weeks, the expense, the time off work, the total collapse of any social life....and it goes on :(

i bet there's not many breeders that post on this board who actually work full time or at all for that matter!! and sadly their own source if income is from shelling out pups each year!

I don't work full time and if my only source of income was selling 10 puppies over a period of eight years I'd be a lot thinner than I am :), happily I married well and he doesn't mind bankrolling my hobbies :D

Thats what husbands are there for isnt it :)

Willis what are you getting at exactly?
If you are trying to prove that there is money in breeding then yes, there is, if you fail to health test, do not meet every aspect of the care a litter of pups and mum need, the cost of using a top quality stud, the expense of travelling to use that stud, scanning. And dont forget the things that can go wrong, so you need a £1200 float ready for emergancy vet bills before you even start.

I manage to cover my costs because i do not show, i do not have the expense of staying in hotels over the 5 day mating period when using a stud as i have family close to the main breeders whose line i use.
When weighing up costs please include showing expenses, travel, rearing of the litter POPERLY. There is not an income in it at all. IT IS A HOBBY.

"I manage to cover my costs because i do not show" well thedark if you are not showing your breed of dog then why are you breeding them at all?? you can't exactly be improving on the breed if your dogs aren't worthy of showing and also is this stud dog whicle lives around the corner a show champion and will we see him at crufts this year??

Willis

It's not as clear cut as you may think. I mated my bitch last year after having all the health tests done, which cost well over 200 pounds. I then decided upon the stud I wanted to use. We travelled 345 miles there and 345 miles back and paid 550 pounds for a stud fee. My bitch then went on to produce one puppy. I was only breeding because I wanted something else for the showring and we were lucky enough to get one good puppy. To buy pick of the litter from another breeder would have cost us less than health tests, stud fee and petrol, not to mention KC Reg, vaccs, wormer, food and vet bills incurred for the one puppy born. I certainly didn't make a profit on that litter I can assure you. Infact I think if you actually look at the figures you'll see I was considerably out of pocket. I work part-time because if I didn't I wouldn't be able to afford to keep my dogs and show them as often as I would like, I think you are being very harsh suggesting that people on this board breed specifically for profit, as I'm sure that most people on here like myself would be perfectly happy to accept just one outstanding puppy in a litter. The reason I bred my girl as opposed to buying in was because I felt and had been told that my girl had lots to contribute to the breed as a whole. It seems as though you want to tar everyone on here who breeds as some kind of puppy farmer which I think is completely wrong. The point of this thread was to try to show the downside to breeding and rearing puppies which you will see for yourself if you look back on some of the other breeding posts.

Well maybe I'm the one that puts that arguement out of the window Willis.

I do work, admittedly from home, but it still takes up a considerable amount of my time.

I had a litter a week ago, and have ended up with two live puppies after a caesarian,  which cost £375.00, the stud fee was £200.00 and that is before any rearing costs have been calculated. 

I doubt that anyone could make very much money shelling puppies out with those costs. whether they work or not!!!!

Very few breeders on this forum actually make any money from their litters they breed because they want a puppy themselves, not to make money.

Hi
thanks for your replys,  This morning I got numbers for the sibe husky clubs & malamutes along with the icebays website, and passed them on. And the 1st person in question, recieved the info with loads of enthusiasiam.

I have 3 days left with the 2nd cause. Yipee I leave after 5 years on friday too work from home.

Alix

thanks again

So lady dazzle your a breeder then, you've just had a litter which sadly only gave you two live pups.  What are your exact reasons for getting your bitch pregnant?? Is your girl a show champion who has just been bred to a champion stud?? are you striving to better your breed or make a few bob which on this occasion never worked.  Will you be breeding from your girl in 1 years time following this upheavel you've just put her through??

Not sure what you're getting at, Willis. I get the impression you think nobody should breed dogs at all - because everyone whose bitch has a litter is a breeder ...

As I'm sure you realise, from reading these boars at least, that having a litter is a huge responsibility, and shouldn't be done without an awful lot of research beforehand.

Drat! I meant 'reading these boarDs' ... ! :D

What I am trying to get is everyones reasons for breeding their dogs as people on here and i mean all the breeders keep insisting that they don't breed to make money.  IMHO the only people who should breed are those owners with outstanding KC reg dogs who are as close to breed standard as possible and who are show winners.  Whats the point of shelling out a litter if the progeny will be below the standard?? and if your bitch produces pup doesn't that make the owner a breeder??

I have my bitches assessed by a top breeder. If the woman from delmonte says no, that bitch is a pet and is spayed. I only use dogs with CC's and which compliment my bitch. I take an awful lot of advice from a top breeder with regards to my breeding practices. I feel i do work with other breeders closely enough to be bringing the breed forward.

You will see the four stud dogs i have used in the past at CRUFTS this year, one of them gained his CH title not long back, leaving only one of the studs i have used not being a champion but with CC's behind him.

I would not breed from sub standard bitches or dogs, that is not good breeding practice.

Yes in the sense of the word I am a breeder!!!

But and it is a big but, I do not breed with the intention of making a profit.  I don't really see why I should be explaining my reasons to you, but will attempt to explain why I breed.

I have been involved with my breed for 15 years now, in that time I have bred two Champions and numerous winners at Championship shows both for myself and other people.  Every time I breed I have done considerable research into the bloodlines that I am using and have a reasonable idea of what I may produce (nothing is set in stone unfortunately as nature doesn't always bide by the rules).  Every time I breed I am doing so with the sole intention of improving on what I already have in my kennel.

On this occasion unfortunately things didn't going according to plan as I intended on keeping a bitch from the mating, who hopefully would have gone on to win in the showring and then eventually to have bred on herself, with a dog who I have already had chosen to compliment  her bloodlines.  The bitch in the litter being the one who didn't survive!!!

Hence I am now rethinking my plans and may well run on one of the two remaining dogs, if it is good enough. So watch this space, this may be my next Champion or then again it might not :-)

Both my bitch and the stud dog have been consistent winners in the Championship ring and in my opinion complimented each other very well.  Neither of them are Champions but both have extremely valuable (again in my opinion) bloodlines and excellent temperaments.

It remains to be seen if my decision to use these two dogs together was the right one, that we will see in a year or two's time when the progency have had time to show their potential in the ring!!!

As to whether I will breed this bitch again in a years time, will very much depend on how she recovers from her ordeal, what her two progeny develop into and  whether I am in a postion to have a litter from her at that time, it may well be that I wait two or more years before mating her again, if ever.

I certainly do not need to make a few bob from my bitches, as you put it.  My husband and myself have a very thriving business that keeps the wolf from the door.

Hope that explains why I do not class myself as a breeder but as a custodian of my breed for future generations.

Having seen Lady Dazzle's dogs at Blackpool, rest assured, Willis, her dogs are contributing very beneficially to the breed :)

Thanks Isabel. 

Thats what my intentions are.

:-D

Jayne