I have been told I am wrong to export my bullmastiff puppies to Japan can anybody explain to me why this is deemed wrong I have always sent my puppies abroad because I can sell them for a lot more money than in the uk

Here we go again.....

..the same one, do you think??? trip, trap, trip trap, over the bridge, over the bridge.....

Margot

Looks the same. Unless there are a few very stupid people on the forum tonight???

As long as you personally meet, vet and homecheck each person who buys them, then it's almost acceptable. If not, then you're a dealer. And puppy dealers are despicable.

"i can sell them for a lot more money than in the UK"
hmmmmmm

You can sell them for a lot more money than in the UK !!!!!!!!!!!!!........I'm sorry but money shouldnt come into it

So can everyone put on this post what their real reasons are for breeding if money never ever comes into it?? I'm eager to learn why.

I don't breed, but my first response to Willis's post was that good responsible breeders never ever breed for money. I believe that they do it to better the breed and to improve on their own lines. BUT, I realise that it costs a lot of money to bring up a litter, however the prices charged by some people for some breeds, they MUST make quite a bit at it, and my question is, if they are doing it for the good of the breed only, then why don't they give the pups away to people who they know will show/work them whatever, or only make enough to cover their costs? An interesting question.

I know someone who has the same breed as me, breeds the same number of litters as me yet makes £8000 a year out of it while i get about £1000 after expenses which pays the years food bill and innoculations. I use a herbal wormer so thats only £10 a year.

Well I have kept a book with my incomings and outgoings for the dogs over the last five years and at present I am over £4500 in the red with the dogs.  that means that on avergae they cost me around a £1000 more than any puppy sales.  My costs could be a lot more, but I limit the number of shows I go to and share petrol costs with other exhibitors as I don't drive myself.

As an example to just feed, Insure and enter our jointly owned Champion import (no travelling costs reckoned in) for shows since July 2002 when he came out of quarantine, has cost £3600.  Because we share the costs I keep a note of it all.  He cost £3000 to Import.  He has sired litters but only to our own bitches, and is unlikly to get more than half a dozen outsdie studs in the next few years.

Nicely put!! So what are all these Champdog Breeders reasons for breeding their dogs?? if it's not for the money??  Whats your reason Lotus Waterlily??

Willis i hasten to add that i do not show either, so i do not have those expenses just yet.

reply to Willis.......... I have 2 Bullmastiffs, both purchased from respected Bullmastiff Breeders in the UK.  If and when i get round to breeding it will be for the Quality of dog in the show ring, not my bank balance!!:D

Don't know Husky as I have never made enough from the litter a year I breed to cover my costs (well the actual litter costs yes, but not the cost of keeping the dogs or more than a few show entry fees). 

If I wasn't interested in stewardship of my breed hoping to maintain or improve the standard of the breed then i would only keep one or at most two dogs.  Instead I now have five (3 spayed veterans, an Adult bitch and a Junior), plus part owning a dog that 3 freinds and I imported to expand our gene pool (a very expensive excersise, which will never be recouped).

So the pups do help defer the costs of establishing and maintaining my breeding lines, and maybe some of the show costs which are a necessary (and enjoyable) part of doing this.

Pups I have bred have contributed to others breeing efforst, adn others have done well for their owners whcih gives me more enjoyment than what my own dogs successes do.

Many breeds would be in a very bad way if only people who could afford to breed and give their pups away were to breed and show. 

When dog showing first started thsi is largely how it was, the rich kept large kennels of dogs, and were almost the only ones who bred, your average person had a mongrel.  The talented breeders were in most cases actually the kennel staff paid by the owners of the dogs to look after the kennel.

I've only ever bred a litter when I want another generation - a pup to continue the line. If I could guarantee that only one quality pup was born (for me!) and no others to have to part with, I'd be over the moon!

It all comes down to why you breed.

Some breed for the benefit of the breed, show them to make sure they are the best possible dogs for the breeding purpose and only breed from these top quality dogs.

Then you get people who breed for the finincial gain. They put little thought into keeping type, temperament and health. They do not health screen, they do not travel the length and breadth of Britain to use these top quality dogs at stud or invest in imported dogs to bring in something that is lacking from their breeding line.

It is the people who do invest their time, effort and a high percentage of their yearly income that allow us to have these quality dogs in our lives. I hope to join them, once i make my way into the show world.
I have a huge admiration for the people who have the passion for their breed! Without them many breeds would become extinct, while the other category of breeders are making their lives very difficult indeed and are destroying their many years of hard work.

So which are you then thedark??

"One who breeds for the benefit of the breed, show them to make sure they are the best possible dogs for the breeding purpose and only breed from these top quality dogs".

"Or are you on of those people who breed for the finincial gain. They put little thought into keeping type, temperament and health".

You've stated in another post that you don't show so you must fall into the other category you placed all breeders in.

The first one minus showing. You dont have to show to get your dog assessed, its just more fun to show.
Anything else? Meaning of life needing explained?
Why i am justifying my breeding practices to you i have no idea but fire away!

I am not going to say I dont make money on the litter BUT I then have to keep the mum until such time as she departs this world which could be anytime up to the age of 16.  On my oldest dog I spent £1500.00 repairing a crucia ligement not to mention the various other hundred pound bills here and there along the way.  There are also the bitchs kenneling fees and food, the list is endless. When I have a litter I cant work so much so i lose money there.  I am tied to the house for 8 weeks at least.  In my case I have now got 3 good quality foundation dogs and now am aiming to get the best.  If you are the type of breeder who moves the bitch on once it gets to the end of its breeding years then I suppose you could make money but in common with quite a few others on here I am not.  It should also be remembered if your bitch has problems you might well end up with nothing but a stud dog fee to show for your trouble.

I still think though the original poster is persistant and perhaps genuinely does what a answer.

I personally would not export a dog for the following reasons.  You do not know what conditions the dog is going to be kept.  If the owner is unable to keep the dog you have no way of returning it to this country as happened to a very good friend of mine.  If they are willing to pay more money have you not asked yourself why and what their motives are.  If it was me I would say dont do it.

Interesting replies that litters do offset some of the cost of keeping/showing/working dogs etc., though not much profit is made in most cases. Remember though that those of us who don't breed, still have to pay for all these things too!

I personally do not include keeping as an expense, however any money left out of a litter does go towards that. If i had 6 cross breeds they would cost the same to care for, it is not an expense.

Well nor do I in real terms as I don't brgrudge it, but it is one reason I can't afford to give pups away :D

You can rest assured that puppy farmers do view this as an expense which is why they dispose of their breeding stock as soon as it is unproductive and spend the mimimum possible on their stock upkeep and comfort.

Yes but as pointed out you can limit yourself to one or two dogs, buying another in when you want, and not having another whn the time is right for your bitch.  In order to establish your line you will be keeping more dogs than you otherwise might, unless you offload them once they ahve served their purpose.

My oldest girl produced 8 pups in her life and is now nearly 13 years of age, has had a couple of ops for lumps and bumps (mammary tumour and benign ones), so no profit from her or any of the others for that matter.

Any veterinary treatment i clss as everyday expenses as you would have if it were a cross breed. My girls have two litter in their lives, if that, if they dont take to motherhood i dont breed again from her. I do not offload my dogs once they have been spayed, i have more than enough room for them all. I have a llimit of 9 for now, i am on 6, 8 in a years time. I have some elderly dogs, some young dogs, some right in the middle.

I never once said i made a pennys profit, i said that any left over went towards the yearly food bill. It by no means covers it but it goes straight back into them.

No one is disputing veterinary bills are a everyday expense but if you are going to go down the road of asking do you make a profit from dog breeding then you have to take into account that the expenses continue before and after on the mother.

I had two JR's who I never bred from or made a penny from and they still had the same treatment as my dallys do.

Many people frown on dogs being sent to Japan because their religions(Shinto & Buddhism)mean they will noy take the lives of animals & so sick dogs may be left to die rather than being humanely destroyed

There is an organization known as J.A.W.S(Japan Animal Welfare Society)that had at one time a very prominant advertizing campaign

I wasn't aware of the reluctance on the part of the Japanese to have their animals PTS when ill or suffering Moonmaiden - but I have to say that when I visited my daughter over there, all the pet dogs that I saw were soo well looked after - beautifully groomed, beautifully behaved - socialised and happy.   There was a veterinary surgeon on almost every block in Tokyo - Sarah reckoned it was easier to find a vet than a doctor!

I still remember the very old Japanese gentleman and his golden retriever - it was hot, and the dog was elderly - so the old man (in his mid-70s, small, bowed over, and quite frail looking) cycled to the Olympic Park, pulling a trailer - in which the dog gravely sat.   Once they reached the park, the old man let down the back flap of the trailer, and the two of them would toodle off, round the perimeter of the park, in the shade of the trees.  When they had done their walk, the old man would sit down, pull out a bottle of water, drink some himself - then pour the rest out for his friend!   Sarah said that this happened almost daily.   In the cooler weather, they both would walk to the park.

Margot

I think that JAWS may well have gone a long way to changing things, I do know some breed clubs have clauses in the membership rules that insists on no exports to certain countries & Japan is included, one member of such a club was telling everyone about her dog that got made up in Japan & she has just been expelled for this reason

Some people will be good owners no matter what their nationality & some will be bad & some cultures treat animals with little respect(there are exceptions of course within the cultures)

I was watching a program on I think it was Toyko & some people were buying dogs like Malamutes to live in Tower Blocks it was a series centred on a vets I think & the Japanese vet gave them a real telling off (there were subtitles)I was nice to see the dog & cats being looked after well, even though the vets fees were quite expensive

I didn't realise that Buddists,who believe in not taking any life,would put out poisoned bait for the street dogs in Thailand(these are not monks)& their reasining was if the animals chose to eat the bait it was their choice !

just curious! if you was to get a puppy from america would your puppy have to go into quorintine for 6mths on its arrival,or is there ways around it? coz wen i was looking for a mini daschund i was having trouble getting one,but there was loads in america on next day pets,i personaly couldnt put any animal through the stress of a 10 hr flight so wouldnt get 1 outside the uk.but i was just wondering how it works! x

I would be extremely worried about buying any dog - other than a stuffed one ;) - from somewhere that calls itself NEXT DAY PETS!    Sounds like instant gratification - have it today - throw out tomorrow :(

Please don't think that that is what I am accusing you of - I'm certainly not - but it does sound as if it is there to supply the need of the Must-have-it Nows!!!

Margot

Hi Margot,

Certainly sounds like a REALLY scary outlet :(  Thankfully it's no use to anyone over here but no doubt there will be some money grabbing entrepeneur thinking of ways to set up the same idea in Europe - come to think of it, there's probably something similar in exisistence already

regards, Teri

Teri,

If you do a search, its not quite as bad as it sounds. Its just an internet resource for breeders. Some of the breeders do look quite commercial, but the site does steer away from 'puppy mills' and petshops.

Thanks Havoc ;)

Was letting my imagination run riot there.

Regards, Teri

Hi Sarah,

(not stalking you - just looking at the list of new posts :D )

In order to get a puppy from the USA it would need to be around 10 months before it could be brought in directly to it's new owners.  Basically before leaving it's breeder it has to have had it's rabies injection - done at 12 weeks - one month later tested to ensure that's begun working - 6 months later (providing all of the criteria has been met re various health checks etc), it can then enter the UK without quarantine.

HTH, regards Teri :)

hi teri
thanks for the advice,are you bored aswell? im ment to be doing some washing wile my mums got the little one.but cd is so adictive! :.)
oh yeh 1last thing how does everyone get those smiley faces on there postes?

Hi again,

Not so much bored as in need of thawing out :D   I think there's a link from the FAQ page on here for the little faces but the basic ones are

: followed by D (no space in between) gives you :D
: followed by ) (no space again) :)
the word   eek  with : on either side of it (no spaces) gives you   and same principle for :rolleyes: except put the word rolleyes in between both :

Now when I press "post" I'll see if they work!   :D

Teri

:)  :d (eek)  (rolleyes) oh yeh how cool,sorry small things small minds! im saying oh yeh but ill have to see if its worked wen i post.
thanks again teri!

ooops ,try again. :)  :d     :rolleyes:! yey how cools that.just watch my posts will be coverd in smiley faces now! x

Hi Teri, as you seem to know a bit about quarantine and exporting animals I'd like to pick your brains please.  I've just returned from a holiday in new York and totally loved it.  I'd like to go back for a year but could not leave my beloved pooch behind.  I don't think the USA is part of the pet passport scheme so is there any way I could take my dog with me without having to do the whole quarantine thing (which I am not willing to do).  thanks in advance.

The USA mainland is part of the PP scheme

try this link

Hi Cheekychow,

I see that MM has already provided the all essential Defra link :)  (she's a star!) I'm no expert on the rules and regs for either export, import or "repatriation" - but I have a little practical experience having exported a pup to America and investigated importing dogs to the UK.

The Defra site provides regularly updated rules for the UK but it's essential you contact the receiving country and, in the case of the US, the specific State to determine any additional requirements - it is sometimes different when merely transporting an animal for a brief visit opposed to relocating for a certain period or different again for permanent residency etc.  So you have to establish medical and documentation requirements for your dog to permit entry to your *exact* destination, and obviously ensure these cover the particular circumstances for your duration of stay & that you've covered all bases to bring your dog back into the UK too :P  Defra are a great help with the majority of queries but in certain instances can only recommend that you contact the receiving authorites direct.

Good luck Teri :)    

Hi again Cheekychow,

I should also have added that the various airlines have slightly different criteria and almost certainly wide variations in costs depending not only on the time of year but also on the route (eg if animal travels as freight then temperature in the hold plays a major factor: excessive heat or extreme cold means they have to ensure to regulate for the animal's comfort).  This can also mean that a pre-booked flight for you to accompany your dog would have to be rescheduled or have you both fly out separately if the temperature conditions could not be satisfactorily met for your animal on the day scheduled :( 

Apologies if I'm making this sound very complicated but it *can* be so forewarned etc etc.    It should be easy enough to settle what's needed with your vet re microchip, worming dose, tick and flea -  but sooner rather than later as don't forget you need 6 months for the pre-rabies rules to be met satisfactorily and in between you can get all the necessary confirmation of what's needed for the US authorities. 

Hopefully I've remembered everything bit it's kinda late so my mind is not quite up to scratch :D

Anyway, I HTH to some degree meantime,
Regards Teri :)

thanks very much teri and moonmaiden, you have both given me some hope.  I wouldn't go if I had to leave missy behind but know I know that its possible I can investigate whether it would be too stressful for her.  I was so impressed with the amount of dogs in New York and how responsible all the owners were - no poo anywhere!  thanks so much for your help.  I had looked on DEFRA before but got very confused so much appreciated for the correct link.