hiya im doin a report on dog fighting for college and i would like to hear your opinions on what you think about it i would like to know the following:

you views on dog fighting?
what you think should happen to people who are caught using dogs for fighting?
and what you think of the dangerous dogs act

thank you everyone who replies to me

Well it is an ileagal activity, so of course law abiding people should be totally gainst it from that if not even the moral aspect.  the prepetrators of this activity should be prosecturesd to the utmost under the law.

the Dangerous dogs Act was hastily drawn up, and is flawed in respect to being breed specific, as it isn't the breed but the deed that needs adressing.

JMO :D

Dog fighting was & is & always has been totally & utterly immoral & for the past 100 years or so been illegal

Those who get caught should face very long sentences & heavy financial penalties imposed & be banned from owning any animal for LIFE

The DDA was brought in as an ill advised knee jerk response to a specific incident & as Brainless said punishes the breed & not the deed & should have been removed totally rather than tinkered with

Its not just the actual fighting thats so barbaric...the training etc is ,if anything worse.To take a dog and break its leg etc so that it cannot damage the dog 'in training' is sick.
Archer

Dog fighting is the most cruel of sport
and what is worse , before they become good at it ,the owners blood them with lesser able dogs so they get the bloodlust
They are gradually led up to the fiercer dogs until ready to go.
So it is not only the dogs involved that get hurt it is the ones stolen off the streets or from a garden, that are mercilessly killed so the owner is in with a shout when he faces his dog to another fighter.

The fighting is barbaric as only one dog gets up and sometimes so badly injured it does not live .Those dogs are usually thrown to the side of the road and sometimes they are rescued by passers by or they even throw them into a garden where they know the people have dogs and will look after them as they cant go to vets as police would be called  .I took one dog found by my son to vet with half of his jaw hanging off and his throat a grissly mass of wide open wounds ,poor fellow He did not make  it .
It is no secret why they get away with it though ,people are too scared to tell as it is not only your life is in danger it is family as well.
and if they did go to court they are usually fined and banned from owning dogs big deal.
Mari

Disgusting AS for what should happen to the people who do this I say as much as the law can. I wont say what Id like to do to them.
I saw 1 programe about it a pup had been used as bait. The pittbull had crushed both its front legs down to the done, broken many of its bones not to mention the open wunds. The poor dog was so young it had its baby teeth which he had lost trying to defend himself. Hed fought back so hard his teath had been puuled out and all his gums were bruised and swallon.
I dont blame the fighting dogs 1 bit I feel just as sorry for them as the bait dogs.

watch this www.deviantart.com/view/11454716 it will stop most people wanting to fight dogs not for children to watch as it shows grapic pitures of injured dogs

Hmm... <tinhatonfirmly>

Dogfighting itself, as in the actual act, putting two dogs in a pit, and betting on the results of the fight, is immoral.

Is that act cruel?

I expect most peole to leap up and say 'of course it is its revolting and sick and disgusting'...... i would disagree. I dont think its 'cruel'.

I think the type of person who enjoys this, the type of person who wants to do thsi for fun, and the kind of person who risks his dog for money and for 'kudos' is NOT the kind of person i want to be anywhere near. And this i know because i HAVE.

For something to be 'cruel' the dogs would have to be forced, it would have to be against their will, and it is not. The big boys, where the big big money is, where dogs change hands for thousands of pounds, do not FORCE dogs to fight. They fight because they want to, because they have been brought up to want to, but they DO want to.

The purpose of THIS type of dog fighting is NEVER to kill the other dog. Never has been, never was, never will be. Its all about betting, whose dog wil win, whose dog will lose.... its all about the money.

There are two types of dog fighting and two types of dog fighter. The type ive already mentioned take great pride in their dogs health and fitness. I have talked to people of this type, and whilst i dislike what they DO immensely, and would not wish to spend time in their company, they DO view their actions as being 'better' then the other type. They dont bait dogs with other dogs, they breed 'game' dogs with a natural urge to fight one another, they under socialise them, yes, the dogs dont get the same kind of treatment that our pets get.

The OTHER type of dog fighter is the much much bigger problem.

These are the people who know very little about dog fighting, the dogs or the history of the whole thing. They are in it because of the kudos, because of the image and not a lot else.

They couldnt tell a pit bull from a staffie from a bull terrier or in some cases, from a jack russell terrier! If its big and looks dangerous, they want it.
They care nothing for the dog, its just a possession, they dont know how to keep it fit and well, they dont know what temperaments they are breeding FOR.
These are the people who churn out pups, sell them in loot, in the free ads papers and these are the people who bring dogs into the world that rip childrens faces off, maul old ladies etc.
They will laugh when their dog dies, more concerned about the money than anything else. They will steal pets to use as bait, and all the rest of the evil things this 'sport' has created.

The guy i once talked to laughed hysterically at the 'blood lust' thing....... if a fighting dog has it in him to fight, he will. If he hasnt, no amount of weak, injured pet lap dogs will bring it out of him.

The whole thing is abhorrent, it is revolting.

But think about this. There is a reason why bull breeds of the types historically used for fighting, have a damn good rep with kids/people.

That is BECAUSE of dog fighting. NO person handling a fighting dog, could risk a dog that may turn on the handler. (and since dog fighting 'proper' involves 'matches' where dogs are matched for three minutes, split, matched again etc, it means handlers are in at the business end of two fighting dogs quite frequently).

Dogs were never ever bred for people aggression, dogs that were liable to turn on the handler where not bred from, and probably were culled. I personally belive this is WHY bull breeds are one of the best breeds around kids and people in general.

And i can tell you, of my three dogs, its only the bull breed x i can pull out of a scrap with NO risk of getting bitten by him myself. How many dogs do you know that y ou could trust never to bite you in a fight?

The DDA is a load of rubbish, tbh. Its badly written, it makes those dogs it BANS much more appealing to the types who want to cause trouble with a dog, it doesnt help ANYONE know what their rights are regarding actual dangerous dogs at all.

(i would like to point out, my thoughts on dog fighting do NOT mean i approve of it in any way, i just like picking through such topics and finding if things we think are cruel really ARE cruel, or is it just that the people who carry OUT these activities are inherently immoral or cruel?)

Em

Don't forget the cats/kittens/pet dogs stolen to use as bait to train these dogs & of course the mind altering drugs given to some dogs to make them attack anything that moves ! The local dog fighting ring, some of whom went to jail for it, and the theft of pet animals used as bait(they found remains of cats & other smallish dogs in the premises used as the pit) is still active & unbowed by the raid that closed then down for a couple of months

Even the ones who went to jail were putting two fingers up at the cameras on their way into court & they all plaeded not guilty ! despite being caught in the act of pitting the dogs

So Theemx you don't think that is cruel to steal cats & dogs to train & blood the dogs on ???

Moonmaiden, Em covered baiting dogs in her post. When was the court case BTW? I don't remember reading about it.

It was around six seven years ago, it was dealt with locally(the then owner of the property was a local magistrate & has since sold the property to the national trust but he still lives there)& never even hit the local papers front page(not that anyone pulled any strings of course) When the guys came out of the nick they went straight back to their jobs with the owner of the property & although they were banned from owning dogs for 10 years each, they still have contact with the estate dogs. owned by their employer

Why would you have read or heard about it ? hardly front page news didn't even make the local TV/radio let alone the national ones.

MM, Theemx condemned the people who do that in her post.

Hi theemx,

I agree with MM's comments too.

Additionally you say :-

>Dogfighting itself, as in the actual act, putting two dogs in a pit, and betting on the results of the fight, is immoral.  Is that act cruel?<

Well, I guess the fact that both dogs are in a pit with no means of escape answers that one :(  regardless of whether or not they are naturally inclined to want to fight.

I can understand (after a fashion :rolleyes: ) an interest in differentiating between types of dogs (ie their own natural instinct) used as fighters but would question the wisdom of posting in these terms on a public forum.

Teri    

>Well, I guess the fact that both dogs are in a pit with no means of escape answers that one

Teri, a 'pit' for fighting dogs (or for fighting cocks etc) isn't a hole in the ground, it's an enclosed area with good visibility. It's much larger than a crate, for instance, where many people recommend putting dogs for a few hours ('with no means of escape') while they go out.

I agree in many respects with Theemx - if the dogs want to do it, it's not by definition 'cruel', just as it's not 'cruel' to train a collie to herd sheep properly. Whether or not it's an acceptable thing to do is a completely different matter.

Hi JG,

Don't know quite why you felt the need to clarify a pit for me but thanks anyway ;)

As to comparing putting two dogs intentionally into a pit to fight and putting a pet dog in a crate while we nip to the shops - a very strange analogy .....

Teri

I was comparing putting dogs into a place that they can't get out of, not the reason they're being put in there. I imagine most of us could put our dogs into a pit and they wouldn't fight, so it's not the being in the pit (which is how I interpreted your post - sorry if I got it wrong) which causes the fighting ...
:)

Ditto JG,  :P
Teri ;)

theemx dog fighting is bad full stop,but 1 thing i will mention,what about bird shooting,fox hunting.the reason those fox hunters get away with it is because the stinking royals do it,& mp's,it should of been banned ages ago that sport

.ive come across some sites where men take alot of pride in there fighting,& the whole think is organised(don't get me wrong people im no way no how interseted in dog fighting,or have taken part in this as i think its cruel)

but i will say these people had ruel books,rules,every think,i went on to read,there was some sort of ledgend dog handerler/promoter guy,from what ive seen and heard texan people are really into it,thats were this ledgend guy was from.dog fighting is wrong so wrong & its here to stay unfortunatley,just like drugs,& alot of other illegal things that take place,but what would you rather have,peolple just throwing there dogs into a pit & dogs been killed,or if the dog looses gets killed,or
the proper so called idiots who fight them & have proper rules & take care of there dogs,my choice would be neither because all of the dogs get injuired,& it give's the dog a bad name,and that also probabley influenced the DDA to put APBT,Argin dogo's etc on the list,& this prevents people from having these types of dogs,ive always liked apbt from a young age.

from what ive seen & heard from a guy who came from texas,(dont worry he was not involved,neither did he like it,at least the idiots who fight them treat there dogs a little bit better than the street fools who steels bait dogs,or maybe baits stray cats or dogs.on a final notedog fighting is wrong at any sort of level,being proper,or street.i would say fox hunting is near enough as bad though,what type of bulls have you got theemx.

                                               

theemx dog fighting is bad full stop,but 1 thing i will mention,what about bird shooting,fox hunting.the reason those fox hunters get away with it is because the stinking royals do it,& mp's,it should of been banned ages ago that sport

What on earth are you talking about??! Why bring fox hunting into it??!

why bring fox hunting into it?are you drunk,30 big hounds running after fox's,thats never ever been wright in my veiw,im just sayen dog fighting is bad,infact it's terrible but fox hunting has to be up there as well,what im trying to say is it's CRUEL.your damaging,& killing animals.

Just wondered Kiran if you are Vegetarian?  If not then that is rather hypocritical view, as what matters is as clean and quick a death as is possible. 

I think being killed by a strong Foxhound (the tearing apart of the carcase is irelevant) compares rather well with methods used in abatoirs,a nd the alternative methods of fox control, ie shooting, Gaddin or poisoning.

no im not a vegi,i like ma chicken & rice,i just think its bad & cruel,(im not a demonstrater).im not been a hypocrit either,dog fighting's bad,& so is fox hunting,i see what your sayen,its a quick death i suppose,but chasing a little fox with 30 hounds,thats not wright.

It's no different to a little deer being chased by a pack of wolves. Predators kill prey. It's called nature.

i think it's different.

But why is it any different?

the hounds dont live in the wild like wolve's,and they dont need to kill the fox for a meal like the wolve's do.

I would think the difference is lost on the fox!

KIRAN SAID - "no im not a vegi,i like ma chicken & rice,i just think its bad & cruel,(im not a demonstrater).im not been a hypocrit either,dog fighting's bad,& so is fox hunting,i see what your sayen,its a quick death i suppose,but chasing a little fox with 30 hounds,thats not wright"

No hypocrite?  Come on Kiran, you eat chickens that have been intensively reared, force fed steroids etc.... made to grow at an alarming rate, bigger, heavier and they suffer intolerable cruelty ALL their life, their legs break and bend because of the weight, their urine burns the skin from their legs, all those few weeks they are allowed to live so you can have your chicken and rice!  How dare you say a quick death by a pack of hounds is cruel.
Dawn.

how do you no where i get my chicken from?how dare i say a quick death is cruel,if you read carefully,is said a quick death is better,but i still think the daeth is cruel.

Unless you kill your own chickens, Kiran, it's likely to have suffered the same death as all the rest of them - not quick.

I have worked in a chicken processing plant ...if being hung on hooks, upside down, whilst still alive before being killed is NOT cruel then I don't know what is ;)

Even more so for the ones who lift their heads clear of the water in the stunning chamber and have their heads chopped off when they're totally conscious (yes I've seen it too) ... :(

The free range organic chickens I get for my dogs are killed to order by the organic farmer & he does the killing himself & it is quick & of course the chickens have a better quality of longer life than the mass produced chickens & no he doesn't just grab them & they are not killed in front of the other birds

Kiran, foxhunting has nothing whatsoever to do with dog fighting. Please don't send the thread off at a tangent, or it'll end up being removed for being too confusing and irrelevant. If you want to start a thread on foxhunting, feel free, but as you can imagine it's been discussed to death many times before (as you'll find if you do a 'Search' for it).

im just making a point,its nearly as bad,& my point is,dog fighting is illegall which is correct,& fox hunting should have been banned along time ago just like dog fighting.they should not have just banned it now.

just be aware of your comments people may take them the wrong way.people do you think fox hunting is bad.do you think its as bad as dog fighting?

Well argued Em. :) I've also known men of the 'game dog' persuasion and they'd put most of the posters here and most dog show folk/breeders to shame for their knowledge of dogs.

I'd go further and ask if dog fighting is really immoral. If the dogs want to fight rather than being made to fight, how can it be immoral to allow them to fight? And I don't think that anyone has to see a dog fight to be convinced that some dogs enjoy a fight even if they end up injured. A passing acquiantance with a feisty little terrier or two is enough.

You make a good point about the difference between serious game dog fans and the idiots who think a 'fighting dog' is a kind of macho male jewellry. The same sort of wally infests the world of hunting dogs and there is an immense difference between a true lurcher/longdog person and the character who couldn't catch a cold never mind a rabbit but can ruin good dogs at a rate of knots.

Just to be clear, dog fighting is NOT my idea of fun but I try to think things through before labelling them as cruel or immoral because I don't like them.

My views on dog fighting:  I am totally and utterly against this.  It is not a sport, nor can it ever be justified as a sport by stating that the people who run it (or who did run it) KNEW their dogs, their peidgrees etc.   It is totally and utterly barbaric - and to use such tenuous arguments is akin to stating that because the Nazis understood genetics that they were justified in carrying out the Holocaust!

Margot

(who regrets even having skimmed this post)

Em as usual you put an interesting view as always :)

It's important to think of a dog's physiological reaction to fighting i feel; because fighting is part of a stress complex surely? I'm a bit rushed this morning (have to get to doctor in 20 minutes!) but just quickly, dogs used to fighting will be getting a chemical bath in their brain which may lessen their fear and heighten their arousal but does this mean they actually want to fight? I'm not so sure...

Also, i have heard and seen dog fighting videos where some dogs are yelping in pain and terror so they must be frightened at the end even if they weren't at the beginning :( In fact because figthing is a stress  response i really feel one could say the dogs are in fact fearful...maybe that's debatable but...

Also after, dogs must lick their wounds as it were, but even in such dogs, the pain must sometimes be unbearable (thinking of broken legs, torn faces etc).

Just a few quick thoughts.
Lindsay
X

GO EM!! :D
Dawn.

<They dont bait dogs with other dogs, they breed 'game' dogs with a natural urge to fight one another, they under socialise them, yes, the dogs dont get the same kind of treatment that our pets get>

How do you know that they don't bait dogs ????? Because they tell you so ?

Are you really telling me that these dogs are never trained to fight just do it naturally ?

They are only trained to get the dogs fit ? then they simply attack the other dog ?

These dogs of course would never attack a dog outside of the pit would they nor would they kill any other animal unless it was in the pit.

Please tell me how they have managed to develop an on & off switch for dog to dog aggression & I'm sure that trainers of dogs with d to d aggression in a pet home would be willing to pay to learn the technique

Sorry but dog fighting for money ranks along side cock fighting, bear/bull baiting, bull fighting, badger baiting, gladistors fighting each other & animals for enjoyment of an audience & belongs in the dark ages It is cruel because the dogs get hurt & sometimes killed & please don't pretend they don't

The DDA is a joke & as for the people involved in any form of dog fighting are the scum of the earth & should be locked away for life

Surely it is possible to train a dog to turn agression on and off - otherwise things like police dogs wouldnt be in use...

Andy :-)

Manwork training has nothing to do with dog to dog aggression & proper manwork is trained to the sleeve & NOT the man

but surely if a dog can be trained to take a mans sleeve it can ba trained to take other things when in a certain enviroment?

I do appreciate that some dogs have issues that bring on aggression and training may not be a resolution but can you see my point?

No sorry, an aggressive dog cannot be channelled into protection work & no one training protection work would take on a dog that has aggression problems. Protection dogs must as the most important element have a faultless temperament towards other dogs & people(there is a very strict Temp test in Schutzhund)

You can manage aggression & control the behaviour but don't forget I am not writing of dog to man aggression but dog to dog which can be triggered by body language from another dog that we cannot perceive, so you want a permanent off switch really

With aggressive dog what is wanted is the end of the behaviour

Anyone who enjoys dog fighting must not have anything beter to do with there lives,i think it's the cruelist thing in the world what fun do people get out of watching to dogs tearing each other apart dogs that are put into these pits to fight have been taught to attack another dog how sick they dont want to fight but if they are made to fight all they see when they are put into pits is another dog and instantly think to attack,there is no need for this kind of sport as people see it these days

i find it really hard to believe,that some of these "dog men" care about their dogs.
how can they care about them & be willing to watch them being torn apart? dosent make any sense at all

Hi Lindsay,

Pushed for time or not you've made a very good point.

Regards, Teri ;)

well said moonmaiden,im glad you said it tho rather than me! :>)
sarah x

Let's make no mistake. Dog fighting is horrific. Let's not try and dress it up to something it is not. These dogs are trained to fight. They are deliberately goaded into fighting using smaller animals, chickens, cats, smaller dogs where it builds up their confidence. The also tape up the muzzle of an older dog, that is past it's best, so it can't fight back. And when they feel the dog is ready they put it in a ring and then so called human beings stand back and watch. I don't believe that people that know their dogs pedigree's are in any way better people than those that don't. It is just splitting hairs. It is disgusting and I cannot understand showing any support for this activity. If anybody has watched Animal Cops on Animal Planet you see this time and time again. Sometimes dogs that are covered in fight scars are terrified to be taken out their kennels, tails and heads down, terrified in case they get put back into another fight. Don't kid yourself these dogs lead horrendous lives.

Lube