Right i have narrowed it down to two foods, Burns and Arden Grange. Burns which seems to be the favorite one on here lists rice as the main ingredient,is this important?? Copper is currently being fed on Hills but she isn't over keen, and being a 4 mth old Beagle who is always STARVING i would expect a bit more enthsusim when it came to feeding time!! also the Natures Menu how are the dogs teeth, meaning do you have to clean them because the food is wet?? (this puts me off)
Sorry for posting ANOTHER dog food quirey, but thanks for any help!!
Aly

apparently kibbled food doesn't clean teeth very well at all anyway. I suppose as long as your dog has other things to chew then I wouldn't worry about it too much!

:-)

Kibble can help keep the teeth clean more than wet food ever could but anything that encourages the dog to chew is also could for the teeth. As for rice I use Trophy's Premium food that contains Basmati rice, Burns and Arden grange  use brown rice also their both American owned, nothing wrong whith That. but I prefer to use something made and produced by a UK firm If you check out their web site they do home delivery's and are approved by The Buav http://www.trophypetfoods.co.uk

Kibble should be fed with water as it dehydrates the dogs kidneys, meaning they have to drink more in order to rehydrate themselves. Think about how overworked their kidneys are. Plus, most dogs inhale kibble rather than chew it, with also stops it doing any good. Personally, I used to feed Burns and never saw anything on the ingredients list which indicated rice was the main ingredient. It always stated a very high percentage of chicken or lamb.

My dogs had the squits on Arden Grange, but do have sensitive stomachs. On Burns I found they were permanently hungry and lost loads of weight. Having said that, my middle dog is now scarily underweight. I feed barf. I think Burns is the better of the two foods because it is holistic, but that is down to personal opinion and based on what I feel is more important.

Good luck with you decision, it's never an easy one.

SAying dry food cleans dogs teeth would be like us saying eating cookies everyday will clean our teeth.I've never seen a dog chew and chew on a piece of kibble.There are   ways to keep your dogs teeth clean, a few of them are : feed raw meaty bones,dental sticks such as greenies or brush everyday(yuk! :o ) The bones option is my favourite as it is the most natural and nutritious. Dont let your dogs teeth be a deciding factor in choosing a food,teeth and food are 2 seperate issues ;)

Hi Rose,

>SAying dry food cleans dogs teeth would be like us saying eating cookies everyday will clean our teeth<

Not strictly true - dry food tends to keep dogs' teeth cleaner than soft, moist foods although doesn't keep them entirely spotless.  Comparing dog kibble which is exceptionally hard to sugar filled crumbly human cookies is a bit misleading however :rolleyes:

Regards, Teri ;)

Hi, i was only going off what the manufactures themselves say their products do. Burns say "it is possible to prevent tartar and gum disease without the need for special diets or even for brushing the teeth by feeding BURNS" and hills say much the same!! I do understand what the other posts have said just want to do the best poss to prevent any probs in the future!!
Thanks Alyson   xx

Oftentimes you will have the direct opposite experience of the airy claims of manufacturers given on their food bags ; "fresh breath and clean teeth" on a bag will often mean bad breath and quick bulid up of tartar, Beta is one of the worst for this tho Beta-Isabel will soon be on to contradict me.

Fullpelt, have you, personally, ever fed Beta?
My Dandie Dinmont lived to over 15, although by that age her teeth were quite ivory coloured she had no built up of tartar.  My cocker is now ten and similarly shows no dental problems.

You've only got to read the bag to see that this could be bad news. Beta use animal derivatives = ground up hooves, horns, hair, organs rejected for human consumption, beaks, claws and feathers. They also use BHA & BHT (preservatives) both linked to liver damage and fetal abnormality. Dogs love Beta because it contains a strong flavour enhancer. We've just taken a dog raised by others on Beta and changed his diet ; his bad breath has gone along with the liberal drooling at feeding time, he is also calmer with no vicious beef antigen flooding his system. Yes I have used Beta when a breeder seduced by their marketing has used this muck for raising their puppies and we subsequently had one of the puppies along with a starter pack of the puppy food (changed as soon as possible). With alternatives on the market why feed a chemical feast ?

What's this 'vicious beef antigen' you refer to, Fullpelt? I don't understand - could you explain it please?

Also have to say that my danes go out of their way to eat such things as these: ground up hooves, horns, hair, organs rejected for human consumption, beaks, claws and feathers on anything dead in the field and after the farrier has been hoof trimming LOL :D :D

I suppose that's why pet shops sell cows' hooves as dog treats, Chloe!
:)

ChloeH as you know you cant compare fresh by-products,hooves etc. to the *stuff* found in inferior pet foods.

Fullpelt i've sent you a pm ;) re: the tag teaming :(

All preservatives used are within the permitted levels which in themselves are well under the researched safety limits.  They are there to serve a purpose which is to preserve the integrity of the vitamins and minerals.  I am not in the least bit squeamish about byproducts so long as they are valuable nutritionally and infact feel it is unethical not to use them.  None of my dogs drool, as I have said they have good dentition and are not hyperactive, I wonder if this individual you are talking about has a beef allergy or perhaps it is a breed thing (the drooling in particular).  I am suprised that you would buy a puppy if you thought it was in poor condition because the breeder had not fed it well.  Beta are not particulary big on marketing and in fact we recently had someone on here commenting that it was hard to get hold of :)

Who said anything about a puppy being in poor condition ?

So if it wasn't in poor condition - why change the food? I would imagine a dog that drools, is not calm and has bad breath to be in poor condition? Fair assumption to make from the post I feel... :)

Two different dogs involved in my original post if you followed me.

So why did you need to change it off of Beta if it was fit and healthy?

My feeling is that in the long run is it better not to use this food but those that work in PR for the industry such as yourself are bound to disagree.

So you are basing all your animosity to this food on the experience of one adult dog, that it obviously did not agree with and one puppy who had been reared fit and well on it!
The reason why I disagree with you is because I actually feed Beta with very good results isn't that why you feed whatever you do? 
I have nothing to do with PR nor was it PR that introduced me to Beta in the first place, I was feeding my Dandie Chappie as recommended by my vet to calm her colitis, she was doing very well on it but I was becoming a bit fed up with the smell of half used tins in my fridge :), I tried a couple of other foods but found they did not have enough fibre for her needs and then the owner of another colitis sufferer mentioned they were doing well on Beta and the rest was history :)
The long run for her was over 15 years :)

Hi Alyson,

Food debates it seems are a touchy subject on here if you look at some previous threads ;)  Whichever diet you decide on, if your dog is healthy and happy you're using the right one.  I haven't fed either diet on your shortlist but I've heard very good reports on both.

Good luck,
Teri :) 

i agree rose nice bone my 12yr old border collie has never had her teeth cleaned and her teeth are sparkling white.

Bones clean teeth very nicely but unfortunately they sometimes chip or even break teeth so for me, personally, together with a few other factors, the risk/benefit equation falls against them :)

Not sure why every single feeding thread has to turn into a barf promotion... ;)

Personally, my danes have done very, very well on Burns. I think its an excellent food, and my danes are not thin at all - but they have muscle tone as opposed to fat.

My old labrador split large chunks off her molars gnawing on marrow bones, so they're not something I'd choose to give.

I think Burns is about 60% Brown Rice, and 23% chicken

Thanks everyone, yes i see food is a touchy subject.As i want a more (healthy) food i will give Burns a go and see if my pup changes her attitude towards food,and stay clear of bones!!
Thanks Alyson xx

Marrow bones can cause tooth breakage,i wouldnt reccomend them for hard chewers,there are plenty of other alternatives! sigh....

But Rose, very many BARF feeders recommend raw marrow bones as being perfectly safe and harmless recreational objects (and ideal for tooth cleaning, as you say on another thread about the subject!). Unfortunately, many of us have found out, to our dogs' cost, that's not strictly true. :(

I`ve been giving my lot raw marrow bones on a regular basis for coming up to 4yrs now,10 of my own & I know a lot more dogs that have them as well, no broken teeth yet...... :)

Christine, Spain.

>and ideal for tooth cleaning, as you say on another thread about the subject!<

JG i'm glad your taking note of my posts ;)

My dogs have always had marrow bones too,never had a toothy problem either BUT i have hard of a "couple" of dogs who have chipped their teeth on them,tho these dogs were *ferocious* chewers who just had bad luck.they ARE great for teeth cleaning.Feeding bones just takes a little common sense which seems to be a quality lacking in some!
One of my dogs,years ago, broke off a whole tooth chewing on a tree branch,so it's not JUST marrow bones that can do this. For me the benefits far outweigh the risks :D

Rose, this was a soft-mouthed labrador, not a 'ferocious chewer'. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: right back at ya! :rolleyes:

Soft mouthed labrador,never heard of one of those?

Have you not? Did you not know that being hard-mouthed is a bad fault in all retrievers?

Jean this fault affects how a dog eats ands how hard he chews on a bone ??? No i've never heard of it,should i have?Then again i'm not into retrievers and definately NOT showing.

Rose, it concerns how hard a dog holds things. Game that's retrieved should be unmarked - if the teeth puncture the skin it's considered very bad. And it's to do with working ability, not showing.

Rose,

Why do you always have to be so antagonistic when the food issue comes up?  You probably have some very useful points to make and lots of experiences to share but the trouble is you come down so hard and sarcastically on folks that don't agree with you that I think many of your points will be lost :(

Some people will never agree on many issues and that doesn't really matter - we're all entitled to our own views and can only speak from our own experiences.  It's getting that people will see no point in seeking diet advice because the original question is always brushed aside and turns into a bun fight :(

Teri

I cannot stand that rolleyes icon,you cant get more sarcastic than that when you direct it at someone.

I have absolutely no time for the little tag team duo who have always got something contradictory to say about my posts,as immature and petty as it sounds but the adage "you shouldnt give it if you cant take it" applies here.Unfortunately things have got personal,but I dont make a concerted effort to seek out peoples posts just so i can post in disagreement!

People will either listen to me or they wont,nice or not,i can only write what i know and it's up to them what they do with it.
I never have issues with the actual folk who ask the question,it's when the aforementioned start stiring the pot is when things start to turn. Take a look at my past threads and you will see a definative pattern :(

The bottom line is i treat people how they treat me,except they dont like it when it's done back to them

Hi Rose,

Wasn't having a go at you ;) but thought it worth mentioning that from the "outside looking in" it gets too heated on here about a subject that, after all, everyone wants to get right for their dog.

Personally I've fed sometimes all complete (ones that I consider good quality) and sometimes part complete and part home prepared.  Over and above my dogs always get treats and titbits from what we eat   I can't say that I've noticed a great difference in the overall health, coat condition and teeth between those only fed dry and those given regular chicken wings and occasional bones.  My first two dogs were fed exactly the same dry diet (with human goodies :P ) all their lives - one had sparkling white teeth the other needed a vet's descale twice.  Both had deep scissor bites and full dentition so presumably chewed their food in a similar fashion.   Point I'm making is we each hope to be doing the best for our dogs and so will therefore put forward our own positive experiences as potential advice for a new poster - I think perhaps sometimes differing advice can be perceived to be a criticism of one's own choices and so things go too far on the personal front  :(

Teri

 

Meant to add that I use the :rolleyes: icon quite a lot - never mean it sarcastically at anyone else - usually directed at myself :)

Teri   

Rose, writing 'sigh ...' at the end of a post is even more sarcastic, as a rolleyes can also indicate humour. ;)

All I did was point out that marrow bones can cause problems and IMO it's not wise for anyone (not aimed at you in particular) to suggest that they are completely safe and harmless.
:)

I never give marrow bones to my dogs now - several years ago a large splinter sheared off one (yes, it was raw!) and I was very fortunate that it didn't cause a major internal trauma to the dog.

Just because someone hasn't had a bad experience with something doesn't mean it's completely safe.  I'd rather err on the side of caution now.

Teri ;)