The problem with that is that many vets insist on starting the whole programme again if not done annually, I would be interested to know if many people who vaccinate less than annually have found this to be the case.
Amos 

Amos according to Shcultz etc & the studies he done it is not necessary to start the vaccine schedule all over again. No reason whatsoever for a vets to do that. If I have time later tonight I`ll put the links to them up again :)
Unless some kind soul can find them in the archives & put them up????? Meanwhile look up intervet uk site. that`ll tell you about theirs only needing to be done 3 yearly.

Christine, Spain.

>If I have time later tonight I`ll put the links to them up again  Unless some kind soul can find them in the archives & put them up?????

Are these the ones Christine? :-)

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Infect_Dis_Carmichael/schultz/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1
http://www.homestead.com/vonhapsburg/haywardstudyonvaccines.html
http://www.homestead.com/vonhapsburg/vaccines1.html
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/Adobe/DrMcCluggage.pdf
http://www.avma.org/policies/vaccination.htm
http://www.danebytes.com/vaccine_article.htm
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/192002.htm
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ImmuneSystem.htm
http://www.cavaliers.co.uk/articles/vaccineprotocols.pdf
http://devinefarm.net/rp/rpvaccin.htm
http://www.weim.net/emberweims/Vaccine.html
http://www.inno-vet.com/articles/2002/0902/02.html

Kath.

Awwww thanks a lot Kath, you`re a star :)

Christine, Spain.

My dogs only go to the vet for physicals, I do the vaccinations myself.  My vet has never recommended restarting the whole cycle.

I'm guessing you're not in the UK, Mr Spock? Here you need to be qualified to give vaccinations - the general public aren't allowed to do it.

It certainly pays to have a dog with a healthy immune system, mine have had boosters up until this year, but for about a 2 years now I have been giving them suplements and (touchng wood) they have had nothing wrong with them and even cuts etc have healed noticably faster without the need for a trip to the vet.

I have taken the decision that I am not going to get Murfees booster done again next month.

When he had his first puppy jabs he suffered horrendous vac damage and all kinds of complications arose from it, last year I reluctantly got his booster done again and all the same problems arose from it. A little while after, Ella and Murf suffered from Campylobactor {SP?} and as Ella hasn't had any boosters done since I rescued her (long story but very good reason) she shook this awful bacteria off in days, Murf, because of his weak immune system, took weeks and weeks and I had to give antibiotics to him in the end to get rid of it, which of course, did no good to his immune system, so we ended up back to square 1!

I've now ordered some Nosodes for 8 week old Callia, I'm not taking any chances this time, but still don't know whether to give Murf some at the time his boosters would have been due. From my experience, the healthiest one of all the dogs that I have had is Ella, who has never had any conventional vaccines since I have had her.

Excellent post, hairypooch :)

Your experiences are really interesting. I'm glad you have decided not to booster Murf - for what it's worth I think it's a wise decision in view of his previous problems.
Personally I don't think I'd give him the nosodes either unless absolutely necessary (local outbreaks etc).  I would imagine that his immune system would be grateful for a nice long rest :)

Good luck

One of the things that bothers me is that it is really difficult to hear about outbreaks in advance. Normally it is once your dog has it everyone says Oh didnt you know....

I know what you mean Bluebell, the niggle that I have, is not only round where I live but sometimes I take mine to relations who live 500 miles away and how am I going to know if there is an outbreak of something round their way, as they might not know, and being so far, I can hardly keep an eye on the local press :)

But the one thing that slightly comforts me is they are not guaranteed to be able to fend off these deseases by convention vacs and judging by my older dogs last reaction and terrible immune system, he couldn't fend anything  off last year, even with his booster.

Not wishing to get involved with the "Shall I. Shall I not" argument, (I think it's well known amongst the older posters that I do.) Have the KC changed their rules on all dogs having a current vacc certificate on entry forms for shows? Certainly the question is still there on Gundog Working test and Field Trials rules. If it is still there what do the people who don't vaccinate do?

Regards, John

Well J, be hopes the KC are in line with the manus guidlines for anyone using the intervet vax, who state very clearly only needed every 3yrs...also what exactly are the required vax for entering crufts? And for anyone using the intranasal kennel cough vax it states clearly, dogs should be confined for 14days afterwards. Or are the Kennel club now experts in vaccination protocols? If it was me I`d be asking them certain questions :)

Christine, Spain.

I asked the question C because I have never entered a show in recent years although I have seen enough schedules! In working tests there is not usually any mention of frequency, only that they must have a current vaccination which would effectively cover whatever frequency the vaccination company deemed necessary. It also says that no dog should attend if it is likely to be carrying anything which would cover most eventualities. Add to that the possible risks of cruciate damage in the first couple of weeks after a vaccination I plan my boosters carefully.

Regards, John

Oh its so full of holes J *It also says that no dog should attend if it is likely to be carrying anything * and just how is anybody supposed to know that until it becomes obvious??? Most diseases are incubated for a few days minimum, some a couple of wks!!!
Not even going to get into the link between cruciate probs & vaccs at the mo, only going to say I don`t vaccinate anymore so thats one less worry eh ;) :D

Christine, Spain.

H/P sorry to hear the trouble murf had :( The problem with a damaged immune system is you never know if or when it`ll ever recover, the best you can do is try make sure its never compromised again & help it recover. When the same thing happened to my pup/s I was advised by all but 1 expert vets never to vaccinate them again ever. The 1 vet who did advise me to vaccinate, after titres were done, was to give the adno & distemper a once only time, seperately & leave the lepto out for all time.
Anyone who thinks its easy to not vaccinate & its the easy option or the ones who don`t vaccinate ride on the backs of the ones that do, I can assure you its not!

Christine, Spain.

It's called vaccinosis(sp?) This is an umbrella word for all the things that can go wrong from vaccinating.

>Anyone who thinks its easy to not vaccinate & its the easy option or the ones who don`t vaccinate ride on the backs of the ones that do, I can assure you its not!<

How very true Christine, I am and have been in turmoil since this began with him 2 yrs ago, I have done some research into this over the past and have had a year to think about boosting him again, armed with the info that I have read and the people that I have spoken to, including one vet, I am taking the decision to not boost with conventional vacs. And be it on my head (one hell of a responsibility) if anything should happen. I am now ensuring that all of my dogs immune systems are in tip top condition, with diet, excercise and good mental well being, IMHO, that's the best that I can do for them.

Hi H/P, *I am now ensuring that all of my dogs immune systems are in tip top condition, with diet, excercise and good mental well being* I believe thats the best you can do as well & nutrition is the key to a strong & healthy immune system :)
You do have another option & thats a titre test, have it sent to Glasgow Diagnostics, they`re very helpful, knowledgable & one of the worlds top labs specialising in virology. The downside would be if they came back low, then you have to remember titres do not tell the complete story :( But if they come back high then you`ll know for sure he doesn`t need boosters :)
You know I can`t recall what exactly happened to Murf, why don`t you tell us :)

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine,

Murf was absolutely fine and the epitomy of puppy health until he went to have his jabs. He was 5 months old as I'd ummed and aahed over it because of my previous reservations and we didn't get him until he was 4 months old anyway. The first set, he was under the weather with a high temperature, contacted the vet and they said "keep an eye" which we did. He was displaying signs of illness, ie, lethargy, off his food and severe pain in his head, neck and back end movements!! The second lot, a couple of weeks later, totally immobilised him within minutes. I voiced my extreme concerns to the practice partner and all he could offer was pain killers!! I had a row with him, as the vet that had administered, had injected Murfee several times and had not hit the right spot, he seemed incompetent and all he said was "we'll waive the fee and throw in the pain killers".

consequently to this, Murf lost 4 kilos within days and at one stage would not even drink! He came up with a huge abcess on his throat that was seeping a black foul smelling substance, the first I knew of it was his chest hair was swimming in black mess where it had dripped down. Being so hairy, at first I thought that he had laid in something!! I bathed it and nursed it for several days as I wasn't sure but had suspicions what had caused it. Took him to another vet and he wouldn't confirm vac damage, he tried every trick in the book to back out of it. I took him to a h'pathic vet and he confirmed it. After spending considerable amounts of money on diagnosis and treatment and radically changing his diet, along with h'pathic remedis, I got onto another vet to get a third opinion and he finally diagnosed vac damage!!

He took blood tests and said that his system was swimming with viral toxicity. He also advised me that unless it was absolutely necessary, to never, for the foreseeable future have any kind of vaccination unless I was prepared to live with the consequences, worst way would be death. He also said that had he have been a smaller breed, I would have lost him :(  I had to travel over 150 miles to speak to a vet that was prepared to put his professional opinion on the line.

This whole sorry episode took 5/6 months to clear up and he had a hugh hole in his throat that was bacteria ridden for ages, including maggots He then went on to get every single virus under the sun and at one stage we thought that we would lose him due to his very weak immune system.

As I said earlier, both of my dogs contracted Campylobactor, Ella had the very first jabs, she had the first ones and then fitted within minutes and then all of a sudden developed very bad wet eczema within 24 hours, being a rescue I wouldn't put her through any more trauma so we left the vacs. She fought the Campylobator within days, it literally, nearly killed Murfee who is a much larger dog.

All of the previous Shepherds that I have had suffered no adverse reactions to vacs, but I was always very keen on watching for signs. I was choosy as to the vacs that my daughter had so I feel justified in doing the same for my dogs :)

Just a quick reference check, I now have in my possession, an all in one nosode and although they give  me instructions as to when to administer, they don't say how much. It goes as follows:

One dose by mouth twice daily for three days
Then one dose weekly for six weeks
Then one dose  monthly for six months or when in contact with desease.

Question: What is one dose? one full pipette or one drop? And how long will it be before I can take 9 week old Callia out? After the three days or the six weeks? :)

What an awful time toy both had H/P :( As I`ve said, I was advised once they`ve had a reaction the chances are high they`ll have another one if vaxed agiain so for me it`s just not worth the risk. Did any of your vets mention reporting it as a suspected adverse reaction? You should & you can do it yourself if your vet doesn`t want to :)
Glad to hear Murf ok now, but it can take a couple of yrs for a complete recovery, so just keep on doing like you are & he`ll get there :)

Christine, Spain.