I bought my girl in August last year and have had several problems with her. I  have had lots of conversations and emails with the breeder but have never got anywhere with her. I am actually questioning her breeding practice and want to check it out. Can anyone tell me who to contact regarding this?
Deb

Unless the breeder is a member of a breed club I don't think there is anyone to go to....perhaps you could be more specific about the problems you've had? :)

Problems with her skin from day 1 of taking her home at 6 weeks (since discovered form this forum and my vet that 6 weeks is a little early to let pups go anyway). She has been diagnosed with Malazettia and i am concerned about her ethics regarding breeding with this fault in her line. It really doesnt seem fair that people are paying top prices for  unhealthy dogs.

You could talk to trading standards and consider action in the small claims court. You need to think about what you want the solution to the problem to be...do you want her to take back the pup or pay for treatment costs? As for stopping her doing this to other people I think the only thing you can do is contact the breed club and advise them of what's happened, they can't stop her breeding but will be able to advise potential purchasers who contact them. Perhaps a solicitors letter about selling 'faulty goods' may give her somehting to think about. What is the breeders response to the problem? (I don't know what malazettia is though? Is it definately inherited?)

No i dont want to my girl go - we have invested so much time into her regarding training and not to mention the ammount of money spent on tests and treatment for her skin etc. I know for a fact that my girls grandmother had it and its a serious lifelong condition. I paid £700 for her and i think im entitled to some back towards her care. But i am also concerned about her breeding practice so i want to check it out further. I will contact the Basset Hound Club and also trading standards. Thank you for your replies!
Deb

I think its malazesia which is a yeast infection ?

Yes Malazettia is a skin infection.

No problem, what has the breeder said about it all?

No much help at all - its been going on quite along time now and im getting fed up of it. She's denies that she has it in her line but told me herself when my pup had only been home with us a few days that my Molly's Grandmother had it. Dont get me wrong i now that dogs can have these problems with the breeders being unaware of it. But Molly needs so much care  - a weekly shampoo with Malsaseb plus she is on piriton and has to have an hypoallergenic diet and it really naffs me off that since i have started seriously complaining  she wont acknowledge it any more. And i wont to prevent other potential buyers from parting with a lot of money and having the same problems. We love our dog but she is hard work and looking back we should have taken her back earlier but we hoped she might grow out of it. But she hasnt and we have been told its for life. But like i said she is part of our family now so we would never let her down. It just isnt right and im going to see what i can do about ti.
Deb

it sounds to me more like the sort of skin problem the breed is susceptible to....like so many other breeds. Personally I dont think there is much of a case.

My feelings are Sam is that a lot of breeding faults i.e. skin problems are happening more and more and are just brushed aside as " just what the breed is susceptable to". I can only speak about my expereinces with this particular breeder and i can tell you that i KNOW she perfoms bad practice.

Hi Deb

If you look here, http://www.animal-allergy.com/downloads/Canine_Malassezia_Allergy_Test.pdf sorry can't do links you'll see it says that certain dogs are predisposed to Malassezia, I'm afraid that Bassets are one of them. So I think perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree by trying to get your breeder to refund costs. When buying a dog you should make yourself aware of any potential health problems involved in the breed you choose, every website I have looked at states quite firmly that Bassets are predisposed to ear infections & skin disorders. As to the breeder, their practices may well be suspect. Did they inform you when buying your puppy that ear and skin problems may well be a problem and were you aware of the bad practices beofre buying your puppy?

Alli

Please dont think i'd gone a bought a basset without looking into the breed. I am a member of the basset hound club too. All dogs that have pendulous ears are prone to ear problems. Before we decided on a basset hound we looked into Dalmations and also King Charles Cavaliers - the books also state these breeds are prone to skin problems. When i questioned the breeder during one of the many conversations we had before id decided to even buy off her she told that she had no skin problems in her line. Not the case - my girls suffers very badly with it and if you see some of my earleir posts you will see we have to be so careful with her and her diet. i dont know if you know much about malazettia but its no joke - bathing a 3 stone basset weekly is hard work and she is on tablets for it as well. Not what i (or many others i suspect )planned for when all we ant is a healthy puppy especially when you think what some of the breeders charge.

Hi Debs,

I have been reading you post and I was just wondering what are the symptoms of malazettia.  I am wondering if this is what our dog suffers from.  We are at the vets every couple of months with him scratching his ears and he is just prescribed steroids and sometimes anti-biotics but they don't seem to have any suggestions why he is scratching his ears so much.  Even when his ears are clean and pink he still scratches them like mad.  Do the tablets that you mention stop your dog scratching?  We have tried Malaseb and Episoothe and last time I bathed him in polytar shampoo from the chemist but he still does it.

Sorry just realised too late that your name is Deb not Debs, my apologies just put it down to my age.

Hi Anna
It might be worth getting some allergy tests done. There is a place called YorkTest and your vet takes some bloods sends them off and the results are back fairly quickly they can test for food and environment related allergies.

Alli

Hi Alli,

Yes I have heard of these tests and have asked our previous vet how much they cost roughly but they just said they didn't really know and left it at that.  I haven't asked at the vets we are at now.  I don't suppose you know how much they roughly cost do you?  Our dog isn't insured because he got the problem at 17 weeks just a week after his kennel insurance ran out and the vet said we couldn't insure him against skin problems now that she had diagnosed it (which at that point could have been fleas because he wasn't scratching that much and his skin looked okay)  Do these test definitely tell you the problem or can they be inconclusive?

Hi Anna

The tests are pretty expensive, about a couple of hundred pounds if I remember correctly. If your dog has an allergy it will pick up on it. When we got the results back for our girl it showed to what extent the allergy was, we were fairly lucky that everything she is allergic too came back very very low. You could try changing your dogs food for a while and see if that makes any difference. What are you currently feeding your dog on? There are so many additives in dog food now that it could be something in the food. We struggled for a long time with our girl, but fingers crossed it would apper to have cleared up with age and maturity.
What age and breed of dog is it?

Alli

Also Anna, I had the very same insurance problems as you did - we cannot insure her for her skin probs! so frustrating :-(

Hi Anna, Malazettia just doesnt affect the ears. In fact my basset has never really had itchy ears. Her skin is always red and sore around the neck and in the arm and leg pits (the naturally warm sweaty places). The tabs i mentioned are just piriton to help keep her comfortable and they do help but the malseb really works for her. However if i miss her baths she gets really itchy and smelly. When i say smelly its a real sweaty sock kind of foisty smell and its a classic symptom of mala zettia. I would suggest you have your vet do a skin scrape costs about £70 all in all. The York tests are £260 os i owuld only have this as a last resort. type in Malazettia on google and you will get lots of info.
Good Luck Deb

Hi Deb,

We unlike yourself have been very lucky as our girl doesn't have Malassezia dermatitis. I'm guessing this is what your girl has? We never had any skin problems, it was just itchy ears. When we discovered thats what was casuing the problem we were able to deal with it effectively. We don't have to worry so much about what she eats anymore either as she seems to have desensitised herself to the allergies she had when she was younger. I do hope you can get some joy from this situation as it must be heartbreaking for you having to bath weekly and medicate your girl everyday.

Edited to fix a mistake as usual

Hi Deb

I am well aware of Malassezia, as one of my setter breeds suffers from this problem too, I like yourself knew that blanket ears could possibly be a problem. In the beginning when we found out she had this problem we also had to bath weekly. But as time has gone on the bathing has become less especially if we keep to the foods that do not aggrevate the problem. I too could kick up a fuss with my breeder, but choose not too as I was aware that problems like these could develop in  my girl. I feel that so many people these days want perfection with everything and it's just not possible especially since reputable breeders are trying to do what they think is best for the breed itself. Skin and ear problems are getting so bad now in so many breeds that if these dogs were not bred, then the gene pool would become even smaller causing more problems in the long term. I think you have probably had the wool pulled over your eyes by the breeder, is she registered with the Basset Hound Club? Could you possibly ask someone within the club to speak to the breeder and try to get some joy that way?

Alli

Hi Ally, i am speaking to people in the BHClub but dont think much can be done. However ive discovered that she doesnt have the great reputation that she thinks she has.

Thanks to everyone for the replies by the way!

Hi Deb

Can you tell me who you bought your Basset From, as I too are having problems with a Basset Breeder.

Thanks

CJ

Hi Debbie - have just read your posts. There are a number of issues which I would like mention.

I bought a westie  in July 2001. I knew nothing of the breed, just adored them, and to be honest did no research. We didnt have the internet back in 2001. We went one day to pick a dog. I recall specifically my dad asking "is there any inherent problems with westie's" The breeder said No. After looking at his mum and dad I chose Mack. We went back into his house, handed over £400, and we sort of waited for him to ask us our name and address. He passed us the pedigree papers. That was it. About 8 weeks later Mack developed a lump on his jaw, which we discovered was cranio-mandibular osteopathy (which can be very serious, but fortunately was not) then some months later he devloped skin problems; inc. itchy skin, round sores on his belly etc etc. Mack went to the vets and he was referred to a Skin Specialist. All in all we spent nearly £2000, trying to get him treated. To this day we did not receive an answer from the vets, only a large bill. I wrote to the breeder, to inform him of what was happening to Mack, and to ask if either his Mum or dad had these problems. I sent a copy of the letter to the Kennel Club. I never did hear from the breeder. I did not want money or for him to take my boy back; all I wanted was an acknowledgment and information on whether my boy's parents had the problems. I did receive a letter from the Kennel Club, stating that being KC registered is no guarantee to a healthy dog. What I am trying to get across is that, yes I know now that Westie's are notorious for having skin problems and CMO but the breeder basically lied to us when he said that there were no inherent problems with the breed. I accept that we did everything wrong i.e. no research into the breed, picked a dog up when the breeder didnt ask us who we were or any questions about us. In defence of the breeder, he did breed the most amazing dog!! The other thing is the Kennel club's attitude. I would like to know why a dog who is KC registered is more expensive than non-KC registered if they do not guarantee the dog.

After all of this I have a wonderful dog who I would not give up for the world, but his breeder and the Kennel Club were not interested in the fact that he developed inherent skin problems and CMO which is also hereditary. I would be interested to learn whether the kennel club are happy for breeders to continue breeding from essentially unhealthy dogs. Evidently they are.

Sorry for the long post - I just get so angry to hear that there are lots of poorly dogs and the breeders dont accept responsibility. Dont get me wrong there are wonderful breeders out there, but like all professions there are the bad exception and they should be obliged to answer queries and stop breeding unhealthy dogs.

Gillie

I know what you mean about Breeders and KC. We bought a Basset Hound and the breeder told us she was awaiting the papers back from the kc and we being trusting people believed her and handed over £750 and also for the orice we paid she wouldn't be endoresed and she is a great show dog. Well we bought her in on jan 14th and still have no papers. I have rang her left messages, no reply and everything and sent emails only to get aggressive ones back and she just doesn't take us seriously, we have now since sent the breeder 3 leeter by RD threanting Court action. It seems now she has registered the dog, but endoresed her, when she said she wouldn't thats why we paid a high price for her and yet we still haven't recieved the paperwork and she is still ignoring our phone calls and now ignoring our emails. As for the Kc they don't give a hoot, about anything, after all they say 'they are only a charity'.
ANybody have any advise?

That is awful. You are getting agressive calls?? Gosh! Despite my doubts about the KC I wonder if they have any rules which you could get your hands on stating timelimits when KC papers should be with the new owner. I woudl give the KC a ring and ask them. Although I am a lawyer civil litigation is not really my area but I would get a free half hour interview with your local civil lit solicitor.

Hi Gillie

Not getting aggressive calls, just aggressive emails, shes not answering my calls. I hope your dog is doing good now.

CJ

Chezza, have you anything in writing (on your receipt, perhaps) that says "KC registration to follow", or similar wording?

Hiya Jeanie

Yes I do have that wording on it and signed by her, but that was in Jan 16th. Also at first the mother wasn't even registered in her name. It is all a fight at the moment. Also didn't sign any endorsement contract. I'm taking her to court if she doesn't comply by Thursday.

CJ

If you've got evidence in writing about what you were to be supplied with you stand a very good chance of getting somewhere - I do hope so! Good luck!

I have a contract that doesn't state anything about endorsements on it. The contract just says that I would sell the dog back to them if we can no longer keep it. she has gone back on her word because I threatened to take her to court, but i'm sure she thinks im bluffing, but i'm not.
So she better play ball, or take the consequences.

hi chezza

I am having similar problems over a pei puppy bought 6 months ago, I have been given a breed contract stating breeding / show quality (£1000) and reg papers to follow. Unfortunately, when we took our lovely boy to his new vets 3 days later, we were told that not only would he need surgery for entropian but also for stenotic nares (sorry for spelling errors!) - not breed quality! We love him anyway and truth be known,we had no intention to stud him anyway. But we are upset about the lack of papers. The mum is joint owned with a woman abroad and according to the KC not reg here and we were advised to seek help from trading standards. I noticed your story was very similar and was wondering how your getting on?
thanks x x

I would contact the bred club/s and ask what they know of the breeder if they aren't a club member, and if they are then whether they can help (breed clubs expect ethical behaviour from their members).  Also the price seems very high for a puppy??? 

After all no-one can guarantee a puppy as breeding or show quality, only that it shows promise, otherwise all the brteeders dogs would be champions (I have five and only one is a Champion, three oldest never will be, and the youngest has shown a lot of promise, but you never know).

I certainly would never charge a higher price for a pup with show potential, after all the owners like yourself may not be interested in that aspect.

hiya Brainless

I do understand about the showing thing but we paid a high price to have breeding rights, but as it stands, we can't breed from him (even if we wanted to!) as he hasn't been KC registered yet. It's frustraiting that breeders, can give you the advise that you should never hand over money until the papers are in your hand, but then still have an excuse why they havent registered the litter.

Hi pei girl
Sorry to hear about your problems with your breeder, i have a shar-pei too. My hubby bought her for me dec03. she came with all her papers, so i dont understand why he hasnt registered yours and any other litter mates? Brainless is dead right, by saying contact the clubs, they are very helpful. although i must say here in wales there is someone that charges £1000. also another is £1500. doesnt make sense. I believe my hubby paid £650. for mine and i have to say she has no problems at all, and a great temprement. Oh she does crunch stones now and again. Mad like her mum lol. Keep us posted.
Take care
Jane

Thing is no-one reputable would sell you a pup as for breedeing as it's quality would need to be assessed first once adult, and it would of course have to undergo health testing before even being considered as breedable.  With a male it isn't even as if anyone reputable would consider using him unless they ahd seen him do wel against his rivals in the ring, and also seen the quality of his offspring.

>I would like to know why a dog who is KC registered is more expensive than non-KC registered if they do not guarantee the dog.

KC registration is no guarantee of health, that would be impossible, as any dog can develop health problems at any stage, and hereditary problems can skip generations. It's a guarantee of the dog's pedigree, and if it's found to be false (some breeders are liars, as you've found out) then there is the backing of the KC's legal body.

As the puppy was no longer physically with the breeder when she registered them I thought that she would not be able to place endorsements.Please check with the KC I`m sure this is the case, the puppies have to still be in the ownership of the breeder when placing endorsements.

Hi Deb,
Just read all the post, about this, as i am sympathetic about your case, did you not get intouch with the breed clubs before you purchased this puppy, as you have said the breed club have said that she doesnt have a very good rep, but surely being a member of this club you would have known this before hand or is it that this breeder had good lines that you wanted or did you buy this puppy on a whim, you also said that you looked into other breeds????? why then did you not look into the breeder as well, thats what the clubs are there for. As for the skin problem you are saying that its in her line and she knew about it, how do you know this? and how do you know that your girls grandmother had it, maybe best to be carefull what you are saying as you may find yourself on the end of a liable suit, not that I know who the breeder  in any way but all this could if needed be brought into a court, ie all fo these posts, this may be a genuine mistake and things have gotten out of hand, I dont know but many a good breeders rep has been dented buy, the novice who thinks they know it all......

Well, this last post is interesting I must say. An innocent person purchases a puppy that then forms a serious health problem and somehow the blame sits with her and not the breeder? Simply because she didnt do her homework 'correctly' and because she looked into other breeds before she chose this one. Reputation depends on the person you happen to talk to at the time, I know personally of a good few 'rep' big time dog people that I wouldnt trust to buy a puppy from. But thats another story, my opinion and no I wont say names here.
I dont think the money comes into it, sorry but thats my opinion. Regardless of paying £100 or £1,000 the breeder (morally)should warn and advise any purchaser of any health or behavioural problems in the breed. Deb did have long conversations with this breeder, she also read what she could and from other breeds chose this one. So the choice is hardly a whim. It would be possible to prove in court if the grandma had this problem from vet records of care.

Its such a shame that the situation has come to this. I feel sure a meeting with the breeder at the begining and some form of recompense together with endorsing of the paperwork would have saved a lot of heartache and legal problems. I would think most breeders would want to resolve any health matters and should be interested in their stock in case of these sort of problems.As breeders we should be striving to improve, not closing our eyes to probs thats how they reproduce. Is there no chance still of a club member acting between these parties to at least have some form of discussion before the solicitors become involved? At the end of the day, much as they have a job to do the only person who really wins is the solicitor with his big bill. Money better spent on the dog in question. I wonder....have any of the other pups suffered with this?

It's worth remembering that 'Caveat Emptor' applies to sales of dogs as well as many other things, and that health of a living thing can never be guaranteed. If an out-and-out lie has been told (with evidence to prove this) then there's almost certainly a case to answer.

Hi DEB

Sounds to me if breeder is just breeding for the money if they let pups go at 6 weeks.
We use to let ours go between 8 to 10 weeks and have even kept one or two if new owners not ready for them.
Its hard enough letting them go then but we could not keep them all.

Not really giving the pusps a lot of chance are they.

Trouble is that you dont find out till its to late.

I hope you get this sorted and the best of luck
Alexis