Hi everyone im after some advice here my 8 year old daughter is very keen to do child handling but i have found that the Vizslas are just to big for her! she cant reach the tail and the head!! so we have come to the point we need to get her a dog of her own.
I would prefer her to have a dog from the gundog group ,she likes the Cocker and the american cocker but i know very little about the american cocker, and some of the cockers ive seen at shows can be "sharp" to say the least. any opinons appreciated. :)

Thats the first time I've ever heard someone call cockers "sharp" any "sharp" cocker has got no place being at a show and presumably in anyones breeding plans.

This is hardly an unbiased opinion, as American Cockers are my first breed, and I adore them, but I can honestly say they make a wonderful dog for juniors.  They have great temmperaments, and most are such natural show offs that they take to the ring like ducks to water :)  Of course, you have to take the coat care into account, which I think  would fall to you as your daughter is so young.  To keep an Am. Cocker in full show coat is a time taking commitment, dpeending on colour and coat type either a weekly bath and blow dry, or even every 5 days (expecially parti colours)   and the outlay on grooming equipment, clippers etc.  Quite a few of our dogs have gone to junior handlers, and they seem to do well with them.  Hope this helps
bye
Gwen

Out of personal prefrance i would choose a labrador, they are so mellow and easily trained, and would not pull your child over if trained properly, and you do not need to hold a head or tail, you just stand them and hope :P

The labradors are to heavy , the vizzs dont pull but when she needs to lift the front square there to heavy!!  ,weve tried natural standing as one of the bitches does this well but we frequantly get comments on "she`d look beter if you stacked her!" so weve come to the conclusion she needs a smaller dog, it would be nice for her to have a youndog/pup she could learn with(under strict observation of course) naturally coat care woulfd fall to me.Im hoping to have a look at crufts and take it from there.
im interested in the American cocker but know absolutley nothing about them! any good links apppreciated. :) thanks for your help so far everyone :)

I would simply wait, she will shoot up quite soon.  My daughter started Junior handling on her own Norwegian Elkhound pup at 10 years old, but couldn't amnage one of the adults until she was a tall 8 year old.

I would persevere with free standing her dog.  After all in another five years time she may loose interest totally, and another five and she may have left home, leaving you with a dog with possibly 5 more years left.

I have always told my kids they can have their own choice of dog when htey have their own homes, until then the dogs are family dogs belonging to me.

You should try to introduce her to Erin, daughter of munsters4ever. She is 6 years old and shows Large Munsterlanders! They are a little bit bigger than Viszlas (well, Hogan is a lot bigger :D ) Erin has qualified the dog for Crufts herself.

If your daughter is keen to show a Viszla then I would think that the judge would take into account that she can't quite reach ;)  Do you go to ringcraft with her? Is there anyone there that helps junior handlers?

Will the Vizla not allow her to move one leg at a time?  SWD's stand on their own :d 

Hi
My daughter has not long started junior handling,(age 8) she started with my Spanish but there are not enough import classes for them at open shows so we decided to get her another dog from the gundog group a merry little cocker, and she certainly is, she is a sweet loving little pup, she is now 5 months old,she has been relatively easy to train too, (not as easy as my SWD though), so look at the dogs and bitches you like and pick your breeder carefully, dont tar them all with the same brush, like a previous poster said, they should not be sharp,if they are they shouldnt be there being shown, they are supposed to be an easy going breed.

I would have thought a nicely bred cocker of either variety, depends on how much gooming you want to do, I must admit I do like a nice yankee comes from knowing Mike Bottomley & his for so long ;)

at the young age of 6 I was handling boxers at open show level, by the age of 7 I had my first setter.  My brother handled boxers and when he was 6or 7 had a large setter dog who he could just about see over when he knelt down and stretchd up to look over.  He would fight with the dogs feet (and still does with the same dog now his 14!) although many people told us to get him a smaller dog (his the short one of the family) we didn't, why should we get him a small dog to make it easier when he could still handle the dogs we had.  He know handles many different breeds from big to small.

The vislas I know are quit no stronger then an american cocker or cocker.  Don't forget also there's alot of coat work involved with the cockers, both of them, and unless you or your daughter is willing to put in the hours of work then ok!

Saying that it's a personal bug bear of mine when a child has to handle a smaller dog, what's wrong with builing a bond with a lmedium sized dog!

Edit to add: Lindylou's daughter Erin does very well with a large dog!  I think I have seen her!  Also many more judges are coming back to "even though your dogs difficult you show understanding, you have perseverve, well done" and high place is awarded!

Ice queen

Erin's not my daughter, but Nicky's :D (munsters4ever) If you've seen Erin and Hogan in the ring, you won't forget them in a hurry ;) They've beaten me in the breed classes regularly :D Mind you, Hogan is a nice looking dog. He just looks so big next to Erin

My oldest daughter used to battle to show one of my older Munsters. She was a very difficult dog to show. I hated taking her into the ring most days. If the dog builds up a good rapport (as in Erin and Hogan) the dog will want to please. It shows, too. ;)

Sorry my mistake! Thoughtsomething was wrong when I wrote it!  Ahhh nevermind proves I AM human!!! :D

I used to handle a setter who pulled me out the ring numerous times when she saw daddy! 

I agree with wanting to please!  I have an aussie who will do anything for me, she will stand and stare at me the whole time waiting for my next command!  My brother bitch also does this so he has learnt to stand behind me in the classes!  It's not double handling!

I am the one guilty of 'ERIN' . She has always shown a big dog although she does borrow all different breeds at ringcraft. I didnt want to buy a different breed just so she could do juniors as its not a good enough reaeon to get a dog and Erin has always been around munsters. She actually shows better than me although thats not hard!!!!! Erin is small and cant hold his tail out but that has never goen against her as she handles him in every other way apart form that.  Let her try the viszla at training where she knows people and they know you so they are more patient with her and see how it goes they might surprise you, mines did!!

Hi guys,

Just a thought, but have you thought of either Tollers or Springers?  Both are a bit smaller, but I have to admit, I don't know much about either as show dogs only as working gundogs.

Ali :)

english springer are rather strong.  I have seen a young girl hanle a Toller a couple of times, but in my experiance not much difference from a vizla bitch!

Hi Ice Queen,

I bow to your superior show knowledge :)

As I said , i only know them as working gundogs and the size seemed ideal, but hey, you know a lot more than me.

Ali :)

I just said in my experiance!!! :)  a toller is similar to a vizla bitch but not a vizla dog! (which in my expeiance are much stronger) also in the show ring springer are normally bigger then the working type, although tollers are the same size, at the moment!

Whislt it probably should not come into it it Junior Handling, IO do think kids with Am. Cockers seem to do very well because of the "cute" factor.   And having an inbuilt "show off" gene, most Yankees are very willing to show, so make great dogs for kids in the ring.  But, as  I said before, you do have ot factor in the big commitment of coat care.
bye
Gwen

Gwen, I must admit I have not seen this!  In the younger age group is the little lad with the cheeky face and the large dog!!!!!! (boys in the minority tend to be given confidense boosts ALOT!)

I have a very "showy" setter who always goes in the ring with the "I'm here" (even in 3rd class of day at a champ show on very hot day!) but we never seem to get noticed! 

However it depends on the judge, some like hard dogs, so like robots, others like small kids with big dogs! then we have the ones who judge it on the ability of the handler! Infact the most popular after the correct way of judging seems to be give it to the child with the hardest dog!  The "robot" dog is no longer wanted!!!  A handler who can take control is wanted! 

However this is only what I have seen! so it is only my opinion!  Gwen has her's!!! :)

Rox, I was given 2nd in handling once, wouldn't have minded except the dog that won it wouldn't stand still at all, wouldn't let the judge go over it etc etc, and the girl wasn't doing anything to try and stop it! The judge said to me "I placed the other girl first as her dog was more difficult to control and she had to work really hard to get it to behave", well my dog behaves because I have taught it to! But I don't show anymore, or very rarely, I get so fed up with the inconsistency the handling is judged on! Much prefer agility :D
Char

Id go for a cocker :P just because of the size and how friendly they are, yep theres a fair amount of coat to look after , Im not sure if its harder to show trim a yankee ,I have an english cocker yes you have to keep up with the coat but they are fab dogs :)
But if you can find a good breeder for either types close to you then you may be able to get him/her trimed there , they dont start out fluffy its just when they hit 7 months or so you will have to start handstipping , mabe the breeder will teach you how to show groom , im sure they will be willing :)

Hi Icequeen, ti sjust an impression I have gained, mainly from the time young handlers in our breed come bouncing back to the breed ringside, elated with Junior handling and YKC wins.
bye
Gwen

I have found that small kids with big dogs do quite well. Maybe due to the fact that a smaller person would normally have to work harder with a bigger dog rather than a small, judges should take things like this into consideration (although i know its not always the case!!!)