Hi! Thanks for your support. Today I invested in a new silent whistle. A different sound with which to command! I got her attention  just like you suggested & had full co-operation from her ( Of course there was a treat involved every time she obeyed!) But it worked although I'm going to try this silent whistle to see what sort of distance range it entails. But I will keep at it & as these dogs love to please I'm sure I will succeed! Thanks again Regards Monica.

You're more than welcome Monica. Remember training is compliance AND compulsion. Compulsion does not mean you have to be hard but does mean insistence that a dog complies every time. It could be a life saver one day and of course it makes going for a walk a pleasure!

As to distance, dogs would hear the whistle over quite a long range. But also dogs have a distance where they feel the cannot "Get away with it". The kind of distance where they have learned from experience that you gan if need be enforce the point. Past that point your command looses some of it's authority. The secret in the early stages, as I said before, is to only issue commands when you can enforce them. If she finds that she really has no choice then gradually the distance can be lengthened.

Add to the above, the more interesting you can make the area around you the closer your dog will want to stay! I know it's harder for you with a GSP than it is for me with Retrievers but the principal is still the same

Best wishes, John

hope you don't mind me trying to get some ideas for my Flatcoat, what toy/treat would you suggest for keeping a dog near by.  My boy is 7mths and begining to range to far for me to be happy (rivers and smells, being a particular draw along with frozen sheep poo and yes mud of course), I have just sorted out a long line to encourage him to return when other dogs are around should I use it all the time for a few weeks?

Hi Seawoods.

I'm never happy about using long lines too often because you are then avoiding the problem rather than curing it.

Young puppies, for the first few times out stick fairly close because we are the only thing they know. The world seems a lot larger and frightening than it did in the back garden. Gradually they gain in confidence. "Nothing bad has happened so maybe the world's not so bad after all, and anyway, I know this 'becos I was here yesterday!"

This is the place you now find yourself. Your boy is now gaining confidence. Not a bad thing, in fact I've no doubt you would hate him to lack confidence! But it's that very confidence which is giving you the problems you now have.

This is where the lead or long line comes in. Dogs are not fools, they are well aware when the lead is on and their movements are limited. They will know the limit when on the lead and will also know there is no restriction when the lead comes off. The more the lead is on the more valuable becomes the time when the lead is off and the more your dog will want to prolong it for as long as possible. What you should be aiming for is that being off the lead is so "Normal", so "Old Hat" that there is no reason not to come when called. Nothing to preserve.

OK, that's the theory! Now for the specifics! Sheep droppings! Yep, been there done that! I pick up on land used for sheep and cattle!!! This has annoyed me so much that one day I said, "Ok, eat the damn stuff!" Anna obliged to the extent that she made herself sick! She will still make the very occasional grab but really, almost nothing now. Maybe not the way to cure the problem but really, there is no magic cure. Time and work on the "No" command.

Running up to other dogs. Think about this one. I saw someone posting about this the other day and the way they put it was about the best I've seen! Imagine you spent all your time with people who did not speak your language. Now imagine you heard someone speaking English. Your reaction would be to go over for a chat. You have not been able to communicate in your language for so long that this is marvellous! This is exactly what your dog is thinking!

Don't just "Go for a walk". Take a toy, something your dog really likes to play with and play. Aim to make the area around you the most exciting place to be. Train whilst you're out. I do gundog work so I always have a gundog dummy with me and my dogs love to retrieve. I do some heelwork training. Make it fun! Lots of praise. Get silly, over the top with the praise! There are so many distractions that you need to make yourself more attractive to your dog than those! Any titbits you use should be of high value. Something be really loves! Actually I never use treats when training my dogs for gundog work although I do in my pet dog class. The reason for that is because I believe my timing of praise or correction is good, whereas for anyone in my class whose timing is maybe not quite so good would benefit from the added attraction.

There are a few things for you to think about!

Regards, John

Thanks, I will keep him off lead when appropriate and really try to be more exciting! This is the key as at home training is going very well and at general classes he is very asstute and picks things up quickly. Gundog training sounds great I just have to master the basics as at the moment I am no where near up to it, although my dog is fabulous. I hope to overcome my lack of knowledge to enable us to progress to enjoy what after all a flatcoat is bred for.

Thanks again for help

Gundog work is great fun and something a gundog can relate to. Work in class at what you really need. At my club the instructors dont get a say in what I train, it's my club! ;) But most of early training is relavent. Heelwork, recall, sit stay (I don't teach my dogs the down stay) are all needed in the field. Make it fun and it will all help to make the all important area close to you nice to be in.

Regards, John

sounds great we will work on the basics and hope all goes well

Sorry to butt in just wanted to ask a question I've got myself a gundog bitch nearly 8 mths old we are working on the basics but could you offer any suggestions on how to extend the sit distance thanks Sonja

How do you mean Sonja? The sit stay, or stopping and sitting at a distance on the whistle?

Just going out for a while, I'll check back here when I get home.

Regards, John

It's stopping and sitting at a distance with voice hand signal and whistle

OK. After enjoying the pleasures of ASDA, I'm back!!!!

Look at it this was Sonja. Why should a dog stop? What's in it for him? It's easy to train a stay because we return to our dog and praise it before releasing it so the dog gets to relate the praise to the stay. But what about the stop at a distance? Firstly, why do you want to stop your dog? Answer, to direct her to where she can find the retrieve. That's in fact the reward! Very obviously, if she finds the dummy quickly she will start to relate finding the dummy with following your instructions. On the other hand, if she does NOT find the dummy, or if she spends too long looking then the action of stopping has in her eyes, gone unrewarded!

To train the stop whistle I use a time honoured way of training. I start with the end bit and work up to the beginning!!

I start by setting my puppy up facing me. I back off a few paces and toss a dummy out to the dog's left, (My right) then I raise my right hand as a stop signal whilst at the same time blowing a stop "pip" on the whistle. I then throw my arm out to the right to send the dog after the dummy. If you think about this it is exactly what you would do to direct the dog. The only thing the dog did not need to do was stop because she was already stopped. What she does do is to start to relate the exercise to finding the dummy, (the reward). Later, when the exercise is learned I will start to put two dummies out, one to the right and the other to the left. The procedure is just the same, hand signal and stop whistle, then send her with a good very obvious hand signal. Always sent her for the first dummy you threw and after she retrieves it take her back to the same place, replace the first dummy and returning to your position it is again, whistle and hand signal then direction command to the second dummy.
What you are doing now is teaching her that not only if she follows your command she will find the dummy but also that there is a right and wrong dummy! Later still you can add a third dummy tossed out behind her using a "Go back" command, a pushing type hand signal. (This exercise is often called "The three card trick") Before leaving this, one further word of advice, always give the stop hand signal with the same hand you are going to use to direct her. In other words, if you are going to send her to your right you use the right hand or to the left, the left hand. This the dog will soon start to learn and will then act as an advanced warning on which way she is going to be sent. My Anna will always glance in that direction to see if she can spot anything! This, although it may not seem it, is just as important for the go back!!

All this is all very well but it can be added to other areas of training to help push the message home. Heelwork stops accompanied by a pip on the whistle. Hand signal used in the stay exercise, particularly if she starts to shuffle. This all helps to add to the effectiveness of the commands.

Following on from the "Three Card Trick", Another thing I do, at very close range at first, is when my puppy is running free I pick a time when she is quite close and not busy doing anything and I blow the stop whistle and give a hand stop signal. It's imperative that your dog has nothing more interesting on its mind at the time because you MUST have success. When the dog sits I toss the dummy out to it's side and send her for it. Do you see how its building up? The thrown dummy has become the reward for stopping and sitting. We are now getting to the stage where your dog is finding that if she follows your commands she achieves her aim of retrieving a dummy!

Success is the big thing, If your dog achieves what she wants by following your instructions she will start to believe you really DO know best. That's the stage when you form a partnership with your dog, both working together with the same aim.

Regards, John

Thanks so much for the advice John started this morning with two retrieves, (out to the side) went very well she's one clever littlle miss and was fairly steady. I just let her have 2 retrieves I picked up the rest and stood with my back at a wall so that she wouldn't go round me, she brought them back to hand I was down low and didn't rush to take it. I'm just worried about what would I do if she dropped it short of me and do you think a pound weight is ok for her? Thanks Sonja

Sounds like you are going very well Sonja. By taking your time to take the dummy you stand far less chance of her dropping it. If she does drop it, because she is not at the moment and she's getting praised for bringing it to hand, I would SILENTLY pick it up. Praise only comes with delivery to hand.

Be very careful of the oft mentioned method of picking up the dropped dummy and putting it in the dog's mouth, taking it and then praising the dog. This can easily be interpreted by the dog as:- "I drop it at mum's feet, she puts it in my mouth, she takes it and tells me I'm a good girl! So that's obviously what she wants!" The dog has certainly learned something but not what we wanted!

It's so much harder with the reluctant retriever who has never learned, or who has got into a habit, of not retrieving to hand. With this type of situation you are almost forced to praise the dog for doing wrong! In that kind of situation I would start at the back and work forward. Train the delivery before attempting to throw a dummy.

A standard 1 lbs dummy should be fine for her. In actual fact I use a standard weight dummy right from the time I start a serious retrieve at around 6 months. I have a couple of rather old dummies which have got a bit soft from years of use and these are ideal as first dummies. I always have them in my bag when I take my puppy gundog class.

Changing the subject slightly. Think of the colour of the dummy. This can make it stand out, or camouflage it according to what you want. I use an orange dummy tossed into dead leaves as a means of getting a young puppy to use its nose! If I'm working on grass and want the dog to find the dummy easily, as in the case of early work on hand signals the orange dummy stands out! Again, a green dummy in long grass is great for nosework. Little things like that can really make a difference to your training!

Regards, John

Thanks so much for the advice John I hadn't thought about the colour of the dummy which I feel shows my inexperience in gundog training, however the gundog club I've joined starts getting together in May, which I am holding my breath for as on the training sessions they will put me with an experienced handler I'm told and I will also take lessons from a gundog trainer who has a good reputation, when her basic obedience classes have finished  the only thing I feel I have in my favour  at the moment is the obedience training I have taken over the years with my other dogs and my understanding of it's importance. Best wishes Sonja