me and my family are really excited about getting a puppy but when i phoned the lady about the puppy she said that all the black bitches had a white patch on there chest like there mother, at the time it didn't bother me as i knew it was a breed fault but i didn't want to show just do obedience, agility and maybe working (if the government hasn't banned it) when she was old enough. but now i've had time to think about it i'm starting to worry more. we were hopeing to breed from her when she was old enough, had the right health test done and done well in obedience and/or agility and/or working, but if she had a white patch could we still breed from her. breeding isn't the main point in getting her she'll be a family pet but if we can't breed from her would it be worth getting a dog from the litter instead. are they better at obedience, agility and working?
thanx for any help.
sam

if you not a 100% shaw dont go for it.
but wispa had 3 liver dogs with white spot on they chest in her first litter,but these dog went to pet home only.but brie they sister didnt have the white spot and she had a litter with not white spot no them,plus wispa other two litter which were black didnt have any white spots on the chest,so it down to genicts who carries what and who go to who???
has you say it is a breed fault and it may not go,so if the mum got it and the puppy it may come out again if you do breed  from her after all the test are done.
but at the end of the day it up to you and the family she will make a lovley pet first reguard to the white spot and she will bring you lots of fun time if you do obedinence/agility.working with her,

as long as she healthly the white spot a small thing to live with.

thanx terri
we are going to look at the litter somewhen in march and i know as soon as i see them i wont be able to say no :) as long as they are healthy i doesn't matter what they look like. as it is our first flat coat im going to surgest to my mum that we should not breed from it and see how we get on with the breed and then if we think we can handel the responsability of puppies we can get another dog and breed from her (but it is up to my mum and how she feels about it, as she has breed before). as we're not going to breed from the dog with a white spot should we get a bitch or a dog? which are better at obedience, agility and working if there is a difference.

what can i say i love my boys.temperment  on the same level all ,the time bitches are up and down with homenoes,andrew would bitches i would say dogs.but that us too.

but it the basic obedience you need first before you go forward in any of the hobbies with dogs,

we always had dogs up untill 8 year ago when we got wispa.know we got five bitches and 1 dog,next one will be a dog just love the boys other fcr owner and breeder may come along and say bitches,
again it up to you what you like.????

im going to phone the breeder up later and see if there are any dogs avalaible but i think the rest of the family want a bitch but we will have to sit down and talk about it. thanx for the advise. i'm going to ask the people at the surrey group aswel to try and get as many views as i can.

One of my flatcoats had a white patch as a puppy (we hadnt noticed it before he came home!)  but as he grew it is no longer noticable - if there at all - although he does have white hairs all over from the number of bushes he dives into!
The litter sister of my other flatcoat who was kept by the breeder also had a white patch as a puppy and is no longer noticable - and when she was shown as a youngster she did quite well

In terms of dog or bitch - i have both and have done agility and obedeince with both - my bitch is a very willing worker and can work quite nicley - but she is very laid back and works with more of an attitude of in my own time please - esspecially when it comes to obedience (although she had the ideal attitude/temperment to do everything I wanted to do within the YKC) - on the other hand my dog lives for his work - and probably has far too much enthusiasm which can be hard to control at times - esspecially when it comes to agility contacts.

If i was getting another flatcoat just to work in agility and obedience I would probably go for a dog (he is also far more affectionate than my bitch) but that is my experience of only 2 flatcoats and i know that there are bitches out there who work with just as much enthusiasm as my boy!

Heather

the problem is that the dam still has a white spot on her chest so it might not fade. I've just got to make a decision now whether to go for a bitch or a dog and I'm the most indecisive person in the world. :) if we did go for a dog with no white could we use it for stud if it does well in either obedience, agility or working but we don't show it?

Sam, lots of puppies have a few white hairs on their chest when they are born and they go away.  It depends really on how big the spot is.  If you are not going to show then I would not worry too much.

You keep mentioning breeding from your bitch or using the dog at stud.  Do be careful - there are a lot of considerations to take into account before you go down this path.  Health checks for starters - hips have to be scored and eyes tested for gonioscopy.  The bitch should be at least 2 1/2 years old before being bred from and she should be a good example of the breed and conform to the breed standard.  The same goes for using a dog at stud.  You should breed to improve on what you have and not just because puppies would be fun.  The same goes for using your dog at stud.  First off he should prove himself in some discipline or other - be it show, Field Trials or indeed obedience or agility.  Second it is normally the owner of the bitch who approaches the stud dog owner and not the other way around.  The ownership of a stud dog does not stop when the bitch is mated.  You are partially responsible for those puppies.  There is a very good article on this forum about using your dog at stud.

Going back to the white spot.  Even if you have a dog puppy that does not have a white spot there is nothing to say that he will not "throw it" in any offspring he might produce.  Same with a bitch - even if you have one without a spot there is nothing to say that they won't reproduce it.  If a fault is there then there is a reasonable chance that it could come back in a later generation.

There are quite a few expected litters around at the moment.  If you are worried about this litter why don't you look at other litters just to re-assure yourself.  If you are looking for a working bred puppy I would recommend that you get one from proven working lines - ie something that has proved itself in that sphere.

Hope that helps!

Becky

thanx Becky for the advice, expecaly about the breeding i will print it off and show it to my mum. i really want a dog to do fun activites with. as i am hoping to go to uni i wont be at home as much as i am now(only at weekends) when the bitch would be oldenough so my mum would breed the bitch which she done before with her goldens. we have now desided the spot dosn't matter we are just wondering whether to get a bitch or dog? i can't find any other litters i've contacted mrs Johnson and Viv Bowen about litters but none were sucsesful(sp)

It is well worth keeping in touch with Mrs Johnson (01638 718231) because her information changes daily as breeders update her.  So what she didn't know about 3 weeks ago she may have information on now.  Also it is worth remembering that any litter on her books means that the Breeder has complied with the Code of Ethics in so far as the breeding is concerned.  If the breeder is not on the Society books it could be for two reasons - firstly that they had such a long waiting list that it was not necessary - which is fine.  Or secondly - and more worrying in my opinion - that they did not conform to the Code of Ethics in some way.   There is of course the third possibility that they simply didn't know it existed but that is very rare for a service which has been available within the society for over 20 years!

i'l give the breeder we got in touch with through mary grimes and ask a few more question like what the parents were used for etc. then we contact mrs johnson a ring if it dosn't work out.

I agree that you should ask the breeder what the parents have done by way of show or work awards.  You could ask her if her litter are on Mrs Johnson's book - that might give you a clue.  I do know that Mrs Johnson has several expected and born litters at the moment. 
Becky

thank you all for all your advice and help
i gave viv a call and asked her about her dogs and the temperment and behaviour and i rang sue newman and asked if there were any dogs availble which there were so we are going for a dog now and one with as little white as possable so if its does fade there is still the posability to show it in the future. we are going to have this dog as a pet only and see how we get on with the breed then if we do we can look to buy an other dog in the future. still can't wait to get it but as my nan says the best things come to those who wait. lol :) :) :)

i was just wondering i have should i be worried that only 2 of the litter have been reseved including myself out of a litter of 8 which is 11 days old as the other litters i look into were all reseved before or just after the birth. i forgot to ask her about her belonging to the society but i will do next time we talk. thank you again and i'll tell you when he arivies. :)

Maybe people are not "aware" of the litter.  If the breeder is well known it is usual for them to have a long waiting list - sometimes people will wait for more than a year for a dog of certain bloodlines.  A well known and well respected breeder will have potentially sold all the puppies before they are born.  That is not to say that the litter from which you have booked a puppy will not be good puppies.  However it is usual for a breeder to have a waiting list of people who have made enquiries.  Lots of breeders tell Mrs Johnson when they have mated their bitches, or at least had them scanned,  so that when Mrs Johnson gets enquiries from people wanting puppies she can pass the names on and the people can form their waiting lists from that.  If Mrs Johnson does not know who has mated their bitches she can't pass their names on.
Becky

Another thing to remember is that any responsible breeder will sell their puppies with breeding endorsements - ie progeny not to be bred from.  They will only lift the endorsements IF they consider the dog is worthy of being bred from.  You should check whether the breeder has put these into place.

Becky