I have been reading through past posting of you who give raspberry tablets to whelping dogs. I am curious to try this because it has become very popular amongst my pregnant girlfriends- although they drink the raspberry leaves tea.
-- Have any of you ever had a bad experience with this?
--- When did you begin your regiment (e.g. what week)?
--- Do you recommend a liquid or tablet form?

I appreciate your thoughts:-)

I have used them with one of my dogs pregnancies and although it certainly didnt do her any harm she is a pefect brood bitch so it made very little difference :)

You can get more information from the Dorwest Herbs website as regards when to use etc.   I personally used the tablet form.

I think you have to be careful with the quantity you give.  

It may all be coincidence but my bitch started to bleed heavy 6 hours approx after having rasberry leaf 8 days before her due date. She had had a perfectly normal litter before I cannot say for certain that is what caused it but both my vet and I had a funny feeling it was possibly.
I personally would never use it again but cannot tell anyone else not to , can only go on my own experience.

Tried it once, years ago. They seemed to make my bitch sick so I never tried them again. She never had any problems whelping anyway.

I used raspberry leaf tablets myself when I was pregnant - and had a miscarriage.

I gave it to my girl when she was in whelp last yr, first time I`d used it & she had 10 healthy pups in 2hrs 10mins :D Less mess than my other litters as well. I used the natural rearing range from Hilton herbs which is a mixture of raspberry leaves & others herbs :)
http://www.hiltonherbs.com/

Christine, Spain.

I have used it with two diffferent bitches. First one had has two litters of nine, no problems and whelped easily the other one had a litter of 8 and whelped easily.
Diane

I have read that native Indians use raspberry leaves to induce a miscarriage in early pregnancy
so be careful and dont give to early and only feed the recommended dose.

Not heard that before carolyn. Each book I have that mentions it comments on the opposite & how gypsies/indians/natives used it to help ease pregnancy. Also a lot of reputable herbal sites/books for both humans & animals suggest it specially as a birth aid???

Christine, Spain.

My understanding is that it works by improving the muscle tone of the uterus ensuring strong contrations for a easy birth, so yes a birth aid but used too early can induce misscarriage, I thought in humans it was always advised during the very last weeks.

Thank you all for your insight! I appreciate the website Christine- I am going to check it out right now!

Hi Christine,  :-))

I have not done a lot of reading on it since my problem with my bitch  but my vet said to me that it can help with whelping but the potency cannot be ascertained 100%. If it relaxes the cervix and uterus too much miscarriage etc can occur.

My vet wanted me to wait 48 hours after the bleeding started because he hoped it would stop, it became so heavy after 2 hours I decided for her to have a section and rushed her straight back. if I lost the puppies I could have lived with that but not my bitch. For me she was bleeding far too much. When I went back with her he did agree. I have never seen him so puzzled.

The worst thing was she was running about happy as larry , jumping up and wanting to still go her walk but blood was trickling out of her. Even at the vets she was dashing around none the wiser.

My vet said once they opened her up to do the section in their opinion there was not other medical reason they could think of that could have caused it as it as her cervix that was bleeding. the puppies were fine she was 100% fine other than this bleeding.

She had 2 puppies and we sadly lost one. The one that lived I had to bottle fed as the milk took so long to come in with being early and not the natural whelping time.

As I say I am not medically qualified but I tell you I beat myself up about it I really did. 

My vet is very pro natural remedies and has always been suportive of my raw feeding etc but his opinion was there are not enough trials, dogs are different sizes , potency varies considerably so accurate measurement is very difficult.

I did find this link http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/PrintablePages/herbMonograph/0,11475,552026,00.html

and have taken this paragrah from it.

"When should I be careful taking it?

In studies of laboratory animals, very large amounts of raspberry leaf extract caused unpredictable contraction or relaxation of the uterus. Miscarriage could result from either. Although no reports of miscarriage in humans have been published, pregnant women should not use raspberry leaf without the supervision of a medical professional.
"

I administered mine as per the bottle instructions. it was liquid form.

I am honestly not telling anyone not to use it but just sharing what my experience was. There is not 100% certainty that is what caused it but as I said my vet could find and think of no other explaination.

BFN Pam :-)

Thank you BFN Pam, this is exactly why I posted this question. I really wanted to hear the stories and experiences of other that have tried raspberry leave. I am sadden to hear of your story about your girl. I cannot even imagine how hard that must have been for you. Thank you SO much for sharing.

Smiles to you from Idaho:-)

Sorry about your girl Pam.
You know I looked everywhere to find any dangers of it & couldn`t find any. I think the key word in your extract tho is *very large amounts*. and I think that goes for just about most things :)
One of the reasons I don`t really like saying try this or that for herbs (or even h/pathy)is because some are dangerous & you`ve got loads of qualified h/pathic & qualified herbalists vets & drs who should really be consulted first :) Wish we had them here!!

Christine, Spain.

Yip agree Christine that is why I said I used it as per the instructions.  I am very pro alternative methods without a doubt. I practice Reiki etc for everything rarely ever take a drug but was blown away but what happened and like anything you can not 100% say that is what caused it and I will never really know,the odds were so stacked that this was the cause.

The liquid form is concentrated or the one I have is but it tells you exactly how to use it.

I couldn't use it again just because of what happened for fear but it if works for others that is certainly good.

BFN Pam :-)

Just gone back & read it Pam & from the sounds of it it was a tincture, they are very stronger! I have tinctures but used only for a specific prob with guidance & I wouldn`t use on my own. Oh dear, what a horrible thing!!! :(

I`m a great believer of getting advice but only from experts ;) when I can & except in an emergency none of the registered/qualified h/paths & herbalists will treat you or your dog without a consultation first. And lots of times also a referal from your dr or vet as well. I know theres loads of things you can learn from books, web, but for anyone one interested in h/pathy/herbalism/alternatives its best to get the best advice you can & you are so lucky over there cos you have qualified vets/drs in all those things. And another thing to remeber is buy top quality products from the likes of Neals or Nelsons :)

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine, :-)

I know you won't have meant it to sound like I have dived it without advice but when something like this happens you can naturally be so sensitive  if you get my drift. ;-) I have and never would dive into anything without advice. I am so so careful what I give my dogs  :-))  I never use anything but the best products and never without proper professional advice. So yes I 100% completely back up your advice but in my case I did everything by the book 100% and it still went wrong. 

It was not tincture honestly I will send you the link to the actualy product privately when I dig it out from my laptop. I consulted a homeopath specialising in animals because of a couple things that happened with her first litter and this is the one of two she recommended . To be honest I used even slightely less that the recommended amount by weight and it came with full instructions and guidelines also.

I think we can all go round and round on this :-)) and I am the last person you would generally hear saying anything negative about natural products and treatments but the one thing it has made me realise is that although I am very natural oriantated most homeopathy treatments just have not had the wide testing the should have.

BFN Pam.

Hi Pam, glad you knew I wasn`t directing it at you :) More for the benefit of posters who say oh I`m going to try such n such or how much should I give???
Please send me the link pm me :)

Christine, Spain.

forgot to say I know how things go wrong :(

Just to clear up a point raspberry leaves are herbal and not homoeopathic.  Homoeopathy is always regarded as totally safe as it is just water to us non believers ;) and water with a "memory" to those that do.  Herbal remedies have to be treated with caution as they can have side effects and can even be fatal.

Yes you`re right Isabel, just waiting for Pam to post back to see what it was she given :)

Christine, Spain.

Sorry Isabel , I should have split the 2 also.

Me again :-)

I do have to say again :-) and I have said it in the first post that I cannot 100% ascertain that is what caused the problem and believe me I have beat myself up so much over the what if etc etc.  All I can say it is my gutt feeling and my vets. 

Nobody likes to think they have contributed to these type of things and believe me I know this isn't the best place sometimes to put your hand up and admit you think you may have done something wrong but I would feel worse not saying it and the samething happen to someone else.

This was the first puppy I had lost also so it was probably going to very hard regardless and maybe everyone blames themselves when they have their first dead puppy and looks for reasons.  Everything was so fine until I gave her the rasberry leave.

I found the info below :

Historical or traditional use (may or may not be supported by scientific studies)
Raspberry leaves have been used by herbalists to treat diarrhoea. In traditional herbalism and midwifery, red raspberry has been connected to female health, including pregnancy. It was considered a remedy for excessive menstrual flow (menorrhagia) and as a "partus prepartor," or an agent used during pregnancy to help prevent complications.1

Active constituents
Raspberry leaves are high in tannins and like its relative, blackberry, may relieve acute diarrhoea.2 The constituents that affect the smooth muscles, such as in the uterus, have not yet been clearly identified. The German Commission E monograph has concluded there is insufficient proof to recommend red raspberry in modern herbal medicine.3

How much is usually taken?
Traditionally, raspberry leaf tea is prepared by pouring 1 cup (250 ml) boiling water over 1-2 teaspoons (5-10 grams) of the herb and steeping for ten to fifteen minutes. Up to 6 cups (1500 ml) per day may be necessary for acute problems such as diarrhoea or sore throats due to a cold, while less (two to three cups [500-750 ml]) is used for preventive use during pregnancy. By itself, raspberry is usually not a sufficient treatment for diarrhoea. Tincture, 3/4-1 teaspoon (4-8 ml) three times per day, may also be taken.

I can imagine that (as allmost all herbs when bought in pill or liqued form) the herb was concentrated.
Resulting in making it a lot harder to decide what the correct dosis is.

The site also rates this herb as : For an herb, supported by traditional use but minimal or no scientific evidence. For a supplement, little scientific support and/or minimal health benefit.

(Sorry for just posting since I don't know about breeding but do have some contact in the herb/supplement world)

I remember reading lots of problems that breeders had found with bitches in whelp using Raspberry leaf when I first got Dogs Monthly...long long ago when Marjorie Bunting used to write a column similar to Jane Lilley's column in Dog World presently.    I still have the magazines somewhere must dig them out one day.

I used raspberry leaf tablets with my bitches when they were in whelp with no problems, and drank raspberry leaf tea when I was pregnant - and had a 7-hour labour.
:)