hi all i still cant stop laughing our first openshow,i thought i had some weird ways of ringcraft training but a lady showing her dog took him down and back and made him stand by throwing a big teddy on the floor!!!!! he he
well i have to say it worked he stood lovely!!!! id love to hear some more training antics!!!

I suppose that's better than the liver that gets thrown around by some handlers!! Unless you have a Spanish Water Dog that would rush straight for the teddy no matter what it was doing before hand.

Was it a boxer? Around here there is always a shower of strange objects in the ring if they are being shown but I think other breeds do it to. And it always amazes me that some judges will go and pick it up and hand it back so it can be thrown again if nessecary, LOL. Jackie H

I know that a few years ago some people were writing in the dog papers to have bait banned.

It is the only thing that works with my free standing breed. I would hate for the lack of consideration of others to stop us being able to use the most efficient method of making the dogs show on their toes!

I think there should be a rule that all bait or attracting items are not thrown in the ring. any bait should go only from handlers hand direct to dogs mouth!

I am sick to death of being 2nd in a ring to a bread that throws bait around! The dogs then are a pain getting their noses down to snack in the middle of being moved. It is amazing how the smallest morsel is noticed, lol!

At richmond last year the ring we were in was full of locks of different colour hair. It was a nightmare trying to move my young bitch, and stringing her up did nothing for her movement.

I judged a match a couple of years ago and I can honestly say that by the end of the evening, I could have happily 'strung up' the Boxer owners for the chucking bait around.
I am not used to it at all and found it really distracting. Having said that, I gave BIM to a stunning boxer :D Why do they need to throw it, can't they just hold it?

A well known whippet exhibitor whe stood in the challenge for BIS alongside a 'throw a squaeky toy in the air' fan. Did the simple thing of catching the toy and slinging it forcibly out of the ring. I am not sure whether he won or not but did receive around of applause fronm the other exhibitors.
Basically ANY one who baits in the show ring MUST consider those breeds where baiting is not done. There are those who use bait as part of gamesmanship to upset the dogs alongside them and this should not be condoned. IF done discretely all breeds can be judged equally.
Personally I would like to see NO form of attraction where there are mixed breeds being judged but realise I will get lamblasted for this.

We carry bait in our pockets and putting a hand to the pocket is enough to attract the dog, I try very hard to keep the bait in my pocket until we are called out to be placed, but with a novice you sometime need to show the bait to get attention. I have been cursed in a mixed ring because we have to re-set our free standing dogs I have been crowded out and have had to move to the end of the line because I have not been left enough room to free stand my dog, Please those of you who can set your dogs feet where you want them and then hold your dogs tail & head in the best place give a thought to us who have to free stand and forgive us our bait. OK I agree no throwing but from hand to mouth, can't worry your dog, let us be. JH

If you notice whippets are not held head and tail. The prefered technique is to stand away from the dog with just the lead held.
ANY baiting can distract. Maybe when standing prior to judging it should be table dogs 1st with out baiting, then table dogs baited etc. so all the problems were kept together (or apart) whichever way you look at it.

Table dogs are not usualy baited because they are posed and so not need to be baited, you could not free stand a table dog as they could not walk into a natural position. Whippets may not have tails held as they tuck between the legs but most have their feet placed. JH

Thats not necessarily true Jackie. Some Griffons will free stand on a table and some are baited whilst on the table. On the floor they are free standing and bait is definitely used.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

I said they could not WALK into a free stand. If the table was big enough I supose it would be possible but most are not, you could pick the dog up and put it back down but that is not walking into a stand, and it would be posible to achieve a show pose by placing the dog, if the handlers use bait to get the right expression then that is a different matter and to my mind if it is not thrown or left on the table can't affect others as the judge would be looking at the dog on the table who would then be moved giving plenty of time for the next exhibit to be 'organised' on the table. Provided everyone thinks of others in the ring or to be in the ring I think we should show & let show. If a member of your breed is being unreasonable then a word in the ear is surely enough we don't need any more rules in what most of us call a hobby. Jackie H

On a lighter note!

Last year in a stakes class at a champ show with my young bitch, I forgot to close the zip on the section in my bum bag that I keep the bait in. I was all a bit nervous as one is, and when I went to move my young bitch, all the bait bounced out!

So on the run back I had sabotaged myself, and had to tell her firmly to leave.

On getting back to the judge, I said, just let me pick up the bait I inadvertently scattered.

When I went back to pick it up there were only about 3 little pieces, and I was puzzled.

When I came out of the ring it transpired that spectators from my breed had quickly nipped in and saved me, by picking it up, thereby helping to preseve my breeds handlers reputation for sportsmanship! :D :D :D

I won't lambaste, but it would give stacked breeds an advantage, and be hard on the free standing ones. I would hate to see our breed stacked as it is in the USA, as it detracts from showing the bold energetic character to me!

Hi Leigh, I find that rubbing a bit of cheese on my hand, and then using the cheesy hand as 'bait' works well.

My dog gives me a hard time in the ring, (amongst other places ;-)) I have bait in one pocket and a hanky in the other (for his dribbles) I have to constantly talk to him, move him around and feed bait to keep his interest otherwise he will get very bored from just standing and start to bark etc. I know he has a very low boredom threshold and have been told he takes after his sire. I try to feed as little as possible but sometimes I can be in the ring for 30 minutes so I have to keep him busy and often run out of things to say to him (you wouldn't want to hear some of my conversations with him :rolleyes: )

Anyway my point is, I think it's okay for hand to mouth baiting. Throwing bait is a blumming nightmare because he can spot/smell it a mile off and will run with his nose to the floor. Also if we're in the ring after a long coated breed the hair that sticks to his feet and my clothes is really annoying. In my opinion the steward should be looking after the ring, so if the floor is covered in bait or hair surely they can spend a minute brushing it up or ask someone else to before the next class. Also if some people have to free stand their dogs and others stack them why doesn't the steward take control and move the dogs round in an order whereby everyone is comfortable.

Surely it is either the judge or the stewards responsibility to make sure the ring is looked after and in well kept order for each class instead of leaving it down to the exhibitor to either have to speak to the person next to them (which I would hate to do) or move to another place ???

Just me thoughts :-)

Hi Claire,

I started using the cheesy hand because of Madame La Piranha. If you think your dog gives you a hard time, you want to have had a go with her in her heyday :-). This thing is not really a dog - it’s a half human, quarter cat, and quarter deerhound inimitable one off mutation. I’ve never come across a dog like her in any breed, and I’d bet on her in an IQ test against a lot of humans too! She was very well able to work out that I had tid-bits in my pocket or elsewhere on my person. Result - dog trotting around ring ignoring bait in hand, but with nose firmly inserted in pocket! So the cheesy hand was 'invented' to foil her rather than because I've anything against hand to mouth baiting.

Not that it worked very well. She used to specialise in doing everything to perfection in the ring or coursing field, except one thing - and the 'one thing' was always different, usually dramatic, and invariably embarrassing. I can only ever recall her doing everything right at one Border Union show. She looked angelic and won her class but alas the Judge was rather short and wearing a kilt. With traditional kilt underwear. So it was pretty embarrassing for everyone - except her - when she stuck her nose under the kilt and lifted it to chest level as the poor soul wrote up his notes. I swear she grinned.

Then there was the time that a chap who regarded himself as an expert at show handling offered to "sort her out". If I was a nicer person I'd have warned him ..... but suffice it to say that someone got publicly sorted out, and it wasn't her! A friend who occassionally handled Madame when my nerve gave out, travelled home in some discomfort that day because she laughed herself into mild incontinence .......

The old bag passed her evil sense of humour on to most of her female offspring (oddly most of the boys are 'nice but thick'), and that has continued down the generations, but the Lord be thanked, although some of them are bright enough to be pests, none of them are quite as intelligent as Herself.

That'll teach the judge to go all 'regimental' in public. ;)

I remember a few years ago, I came across the squeaky toy thing. We were in the puppy group and I was with Floyd stood next to a man with a squeaky toy in his pocket. He had trained his dog to become very alert and eager whenever he squeaked this toy ( not very hard with a puppy). what he failed to realise was that EVERY puppy reacts to a squeaky toy, as most have them at home to play with. Floyd was like a mad thing, whirling round and straining to get at this man's pocket This chap saw what was happening to my dog but didn't stop. I struggled on trying to get a 6 stone puppy to behave and stand still for at least a second and threw daggers at this chap who by now I was convinced was doing it on purpose. This chap took PG2 in the end.....guess who took PG1...sorry but I couldn't resist a smirk at the time.

MM,
Too bad you didn't let your leash "slip" after it was all over so your dog could rush over to either plant his teeth or paws in the region of the guy's lil' poket. ;) ;) :D :D

Maybe the same fellow is just an exhibitionist, 'cos I remember him being trailed through the heather by his own hound at a coursing meet, while wearing the same outfit. But that time at least he was face down, so it was the back of the kilt that gave the display :D

ROTFLOL Sharon. Do you still show her and does she still get up to her old tricks? What a personality :D I might try the cheesy hand at ringcraft first as my boy usually loses interest once he's sussed out there's now't to actually eat and being a weimaraner that takes all of 2 seconds :rolleyes:

:D :D What a star Sharon!!! Obviously greatly loved too.

Hi Claire and Isabel, Madame had her 14th this month, so she's retired (unless someone puts on an 'antique' rather than just a veteran class :-)). Mind you, fingers crossed, she's in good nick for her age, and her last outing was a couple of years ago in a progeny class. But she still manages to make her presence felt at home and just this evening performed one of her 'special welcomes' when we had a visitor she didn't take to. (A 'special' is when she gets up on the sofa beside the disliked visitor. Then she puts her front feet down on the floor, keeping her hind feet on the sofa, stretches and arches her back. Then she inclines her hinder end towards the unwanted guest. She peers up coyly and sweetly towards the victim, and gently wraps her tail around his/her neck. And then she goes "phtttttph!!!" in his/her face with great power, emphasis, and the odour of distilled internal dead rat :D :D)

Oh come on Sharon youv'e trained her to do that haven't you :D
That's a fantastic age for your breed isn't it?

Honest Isabel, we didn't teach her that one - or anything much else come to that :-) Although it does have to be said that since her judgement of who she doesn't like much tends to coincide with ours, we don't exactly try to stop her either .... :D. She's knocking on in years, but Ma and Grandma made very, very old bones, and we just hope that she outdoes them both. She has worked out that we worry about her a bit now she's so old, and she plays on it like mad. I think I've already posted about how we tried to leave her at home with the dog sitter last year when we went on holiday, so she 'took sick' the evening before. (She loves the sea and hates being left out of anything.) With the result that we spent our first day looking for a good vet 'just in case', for a dog that totally recovered the second she was on the boat, and Madame got her usual 2 weeks of Donegal air, and Irish whiskey.

<he has a very low boredom threshold and have been told he takes after his sire>

Oh No! I hope Pup doesn't do the same :D

Linda

LOL @ Linda. It's great fun really :D

Hope you enjoyed your visit, the pups are fab aren't they :-)

Of course! I'd forgotten you had been there the day before for the Puppy Party! Jean said she couldn't have managed without you :D Aren't they adorable!!! I'm now dying to know which one is Pup (or TGF as he's now known ;)), Jean stood each dog-puppy for me and pointed out various good points on them all. I must say I have no idea really, having never observed dogs let alone puppies at such close quarters ;) ! And because of that and the fact that they will probably all change again in the next 10 days until I pick TGF up, I'm going to put my trust in Jean and what feels right on the day. Besides, it wouldn't have been fair to choose, even if it had been appropriate, without hubby there.... Afterall, He know's what Pup is called :D :D

Linda