Today I received my BRS (spring 2002) for the gundog group.

In my breed (labradors) I was shocked to see the amount of litters that some kennels are breeding in a quarter.

There are a few kennels that have bred 5 or 6 litters, but one really jumped out at me by having bred 10 litters and registered more than 80 pups. All of these were by the same sire!

Obviously the kennel club allows this, and it's quite possible that the breeding has been done responsibly and that all the pups have been well reared, (before anyone condemns my comments) but I just found it a bit shocking.

I guess the KC is happy about it ....after all ..... look how much money they must be receiving in registration and transfer of ownership fees!

Actually that BRS doesn't give the whole picture. those registration figures are only for one quarter of the year!

KC registration does not mean anything other than that the litter is being registered as being sired by dog A (who is already KC reg) out of bitch B (who has also already been registered).

The breeding should be listed correctly if the generations that went before are. Whether the pups are actually from the dog and bitch stated is only down to the honesty of the parties signing the application (bitch and stud owner).

There is no KC rule as to how many litters anyone can register, though they do now restrict the puppy sales register to breeders that have bred less than 5 litters.

KC will not accept registration for puppies born to bitches under 1 year of age, or who have had six litters born. They will also not accept litters to be registered to a bitch whose previous litter was born under a year earlier, without Veterinary supporting letter as to the suitability and health of the bitch to whelp (those breeders required to be registered, which are those breeding 5 or more litters, do not have this dispensation). Anyone proposing to breed from a bitch over 8 years of age muyst apply in advance for permission, with Veterianary support, otherwise pups cannot be registered.

Even with these very limited restrictions some puppy producers (I hesitate to call them breeders) find it neccesary/expedient to register their litters with a number of other dog registries. None of whom run any dog events, and are purely in existence to lend an air of legitimacy/cudos to the puppies.

If the KC did any more to restrict registrations, I am sure it would lose more business.

It's primary aim of Improving dogs is unfortunately often at odds with it's need to finance it's existence.

and in my breed register dogs with assorted family members to make their "figures" look better!

Christine

And I bet I know what Affix it is as well! The BRS is an eye opener isn't it :( Keep looking and you will possibly find the same sire accounting for well over 200 puppies by the end of the year. No problem if it is healthy but what if it is a carrier of something? And still the KC says, "We not here to police the breeders"

Best wishes, John

Hi All,

It is a funny thing but I was reading the BSR for my breed during the week ( Westies) and I saw a particular affix with about 20 litters and I was actually going to ask Irene about it... It was the same affix but different breeder names..I was just browsing so need to go have a better look but I was gob smacked..

Pam

Did they all begin Ken..... as this is the KC's own affix that it puts on litters if people want them to :-)

Freaky, we both replied with roughly the same answer at the same time.

Spooky that!

Di

Had we both just logged on following the nations IQ test :-)

did you all do that too - judging by my spelling think probably did quite badly! Thought it was very exciting, got quite competitive with the man but ended up only 2 points apart so peace still reigns in our household! How'd you all get on - if its not too personal a question.. :D

That was it..I did not know that. Do they tell you this somewhere?

Unless I am a bit thick why would anyone what that affix?

I am quite interested in this now...

Pamela

LOL at me then..but I wonder if alot of people though as I did when they saw it.. I have mine at work so I browes then like mad sometimes.

Pamela

If it was an apparent affix of Kenmillone or Kenmillto or something like that, I believe the KC puts a prefix on puppies sometimes. Although I don't really understand why, and how they determine when it is applied.

That could be the answer to that one.

Di
Please clarify the KC Kenmill..... bit, someone please!

Don't quote me on this but I think the KC will stick their affix on if there are dog's getting registered with the same names or the owner hasn't ticked the box on the litter registration forms to indicate they want to choose more names if the two they submit for each pup is rejected. More often applies to breeders with no affixes and just making up names for pups. No doubt, Leigh will tell us otherwise! ;)

Going back to BRS, the amount of litters registered by 'top' kennels within breeds can be sometimes alarming! Then they call themselves 'top' breeders etc. on the strength of maybe 2-3 dogs who win out of 20+ litters registered each quarter/year. That's a horrendously low ratio of winners to litters if you calculate it out. The ethics of some 'show' people is incredible, bet you we could all name names?????!!!!....

How about the ones that that will let a bitch go out to a home in return for a puppy or two from a litter 2yrs on? This is done by 'large' kennel big time show people I have been told, how many pups are produced this way? And then not associated with the big name, because the affix goes behind the name should the pup be of show quality--if not, then I would imagine off to pet home an no one any the wiser.....

There are a multitude of ways to cover your trcks if you want to breed huge numbers of dogs. Don't forget some people live off the money generated by breeding puppies. They can try to cover tracks within the breed, but unless you buy all seven groups of the BRS, then you cannot see the full score for an individual breeder. One I have been tracking for example has rottweilers, flatcoats, CKCS, border collies, OES, labs to mention just a few of her breeds. I get all the supplements and then share them with others, so that I can continue to track the dealers of which there are a few. Just looking at the working group, one dealer, I notice has taken a border collie this time, I haven't looked any further yet.

Well nobody will ever accuse me of churning them out, 3 litters in 14 years, the third litter is just 4 weeks old!!! I'm sure what we see just scratches the surface. I know of a big 'gundog' breeder who regularly registers 20+ litters a year, then her stud dogs sire a hell of a lot too, then she can claim all her 'top' awards. I'm heard lots of stories concerning this 'affix', they are not popular people.

Our breed club publishes all the BRS info in our Yearbook/Journal, so all members can see who has been doing what re breeding!

The ones who really churn out without scruples will not be shamed by this. It does allow others to see what goes on though, and also those whose stud dogs are used less than discerningly!

Thankfully it is rare for many of our breeders to breed more than 2 or 3 litters in a year, and usually less than one!

hi, the affix you were discussing i was reading through in the toy section of brs, and i noticed and i was not even looking for it, that they have yorkshire terriers, chihuahuas and various others too, i was astounded!!!!!!!!

Hi, the puppies that are affixed Ken...., the name changes each year but alway starts with the first three letters Ken are from "breeders" registering puppies who cannot be bothered to name them themselves. If I were looking for a puppy to buy I would run a mile from a litter affixed Ken.... They would either surely be puppy farmers or very uncaring to not be bothered to think of names for their puppies. I suppose the odd inexperienced breeder may think its an easy option, or not realise the stigma attached. Apologies to anyone who has used this service, but the majority who do use it seem to register many litters a year.

I would have to generally agree. There is a famous Champion in our breed, who is now 16 years old, and still comes to shows!

He is Ch Kensix Trojan (I think he was from his breeders first litter) His brother Kensix Zimba owned by the breeder also became a champion, both the breeder and he are sadly no more. The lady then took out her own affix and bred a number of champions.

It seems that the Ken bit is followed by a number, so any affixes with Ken as first letters without the number theme are just coincidence, as I am sure there must be proper affixes starting Ken.

The litters with no affix are often one off or puppy farmed also, though there are some famous breeders who don't use an affix. A well known Greyhound kennel has all the pups registered with two words both starting with same initials!

If I had gone with that idea, and chosen my own initials, BB, I could have Bashful Bertie, Bonnie Belle, Beautiful Bloomer and so on! If you breed rarely, a theme saves paying annually for an affix you may rarely use, but I still like an Affix!

Soeone in our breed years ago, on the few litters bred added Bar to the first word of the pups name, so there was Rosabar Katie (my oldest's Mum), Danebar Simba (a CC winner who was run over), Tarabar Lisa, Ingebar Helga etc!